banned files questions

junkpath.berkeley.edu wrote:
>
> Yes, but is there an alternative that will permit
rejection of messages?
>  A dual SMTP setup will only let you bounce them. 

You can use HOLD (in postfix) or a quarantine mechanism.

>  Bouncing viruses or
> spam is not the best way to go, however losing mail
isn't very
> acceptable either.  Rejection in my opinion is the way
to go for these
> types of messages.
>   

For legitimate ones only. but if the ratio of those is too
small, why 
would one optimize for rare cases.

------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the
chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys
-- and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.
php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
_______________________________________________
AMaViS-user mailing list
AMaViS-userlists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amavis-user

AMaViS-FAQ:http://www.amav
is.org/amavis-faq.php3
AMaViS-HowTos:http://www.amavis.org/ho
wto/

> You can use HOLD (in postfix) or a quarantine
mechanism.

What do you mean quarantine mechanism?  If this can be done
in sendmail,
please tell me how.

> For legitimate ones only. but if the ratio of those is
too small, why
> would one optimize for rare cases.

Because all it takes is one serious false positive for
people to lose
confidence in the system.  Losing mail, for me and my users,
is not a
real option.  Regardless, what sort of comment is that?  If
I state that
I wish to do something, and the thing that I wish to do
isn't "way out
there", what good is it to reply and question my
motives?

mouss wrote:
> junkpath.berkeley.edu wrote:
>> Yes, but is there an alternative that will permit
rejection of messages?
>>  A dual SMTP setup will only let you bounce them. 
> 
> You can use HOLD (in postfix) or a quarantine
mechanism.
> 
>>  Bouncing viruses or
>> spam is not the best way to go, however losing mail
isn't very
>> acceptable either.  Rejection in my opinion is the
way to go for these
>> types of messages.
>>   
> 
> For legitimate ones only. but if the ratio of those is
too small, why 
> would one optimize for rare cases.
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the
chance to share your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief
surveys -- and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.
php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> AMaViS-user mailing list
> AMaViS-userlists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amavis-user

> AMaViS-FAQ:http://www.amav
is.org/amavis-faq.php3
> AMaViS-HowTos:http://www.amavis.org/ho
wto/

------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the
chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys
-- and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.
php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
_______________________________________________
AMaViS-user mailing list
AMaViS-userlists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amavis-user

AMaViS-FAQ:http://www.amav
is.org/amavis-faq.php3
AMaViS-HowTos:http://www.amavis.org/ho
wto/

junkpath.berkeley.edu wrote:
>> You can use HOLD (in postfix) or a quarantine
mechanism.
>>     
>
> What do you mean quarantine mechanism?  If this can be
done in sendmail,
> please tell me how.
>   

you deliver messages tagged as "undesirable" to a
quarantine. This may be
- a junk folder
- spam headers added to message (then MUAs are configured to
use these 
to eithe put the message in a special folder or to just
allow user to 
order messages so that they can focus on untagged messages
first).
- tagged subject. variant of the above, but I don't like it.
- quarantine server (another pop/imap server). dbmail may be
handy here.
- webmail
- web quarantine (mailzu for instance)
- amavisd-new quarantine
...

The idea here is to let the final recipient decide what to
do with his 
email, because no automatic solution is gonna make everybody
happy.
>   
>> For legitimate ones only. but if the ratio of those
is too small, why
>> would one optimize for rare cases.
>>     
>
> Because all it takes is one serious false positive for
people to lose
> confidence in the system.  Losing mail, for me and my
users, is not a
> real option. 

nor is it here.
>  Regardless, what sort of comment is that?  If I state
that
> I wish to do something, and the thing that I wish to do
isn't "way out
> there", what good is it to reply and question my
motives?
>   

dunno, but I am for quarantine and check. no mail is
discarded by the 
email system here (but recipients are free to read or
discard email).

------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the
chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys
-- and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.
php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
_______________________________________________
AMaViS-user mailing list
AMaViS-userlists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amavis-user

AMaViS-FAQ:http://www.amav
is.org/amavis-faq.php3
AMaViS-HowTos:http://www.amavis.org/ho
wto/

> you deliver messages tagged as "undesirable"
to a quarantine. This may be
> - a junk folder
> - spam headers added to message (then MUAs are
configured to use these
> to eithe put the message in a special folder or to just
allow user to
> order messages so that they can focus on untagged
messages first).
> - tagged subject. variant of the above, but I don't
like it.
> - quarantine server (another pop/imap server). dbmail
may be handy here.
> - webmail
> - web quarantine (mailzu for instance)
> - amavisd-new quarantine
> ...

I want a legit sender to know their message was quarantined.
 Quarantine
makes it so the recipients know something was up (and
retrieve if
desired).  Sending a rejection code lets the senders know
something was
up without sending bounces to innocent bystanders.

mouss wrote:
> junkpath.berkeley.edu wrote:
>>> You can use HOLD (in postfix) or a quarantine
mechanism.
>>>     
>> What do you mean quarantine mechanism?  If this can
be done in sendmail,
>> please tell me how.
>>   
> 
> you deliver messages tagged as "undesirable"
to a quarantine. This may be
> - a junk folder
> - spam headers added to message (then MUAs are
configured to use these 
> to eithe put the message in a special folder or to just
allow user to 
> order messages so that they can focus on untagged
messages first).
> - tagged subject. variant of the above, but I don't
like it.
> - quarantine server (another pop/imap server). dbmail
may be handy here.
> - webmail
> - web quarantine (mailzu for instance)
> - amavisd-new quarantine
> ...
> 
> The idea here is to let the final recipient decide what
to do with his 
> email, because no automatic solution is gonna make
everybody happy.
>>   
>>> For legitimate ones only. but if the ratio of
those is too small, why
>>> would one optimize for rare cases.
>>>     
>> Because all it takes is one serious false positive
for people to lose
>> confidence in the system.  Losing mail, for me and
my users, is not a
>> real option. 
> 
> nor is it here.
>>  Regardless, what sort of comment is that?  If I
state that
>> I wish to do something, and the thing that I wish
to do isn't "way out
>> there", what good is it to reply and question
my motives?
>>   
> 
> dunno, but I am for quarantine and check. no mail is
discarded by the 
> email system here (but recipients are free to read or
discard email).
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the
chance to share your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief
surveys -- and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.
php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> AMaViS-user mailing list
> AMaViS-userlists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amavis-user

> AMaViS-FAQ:http://www.amav
is.org/amavis-faq.php3
> AMaViS-HowTos:http://www.amavis.org/ho
wto/

------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the
chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys
-- and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.
php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
_______________________________________________
AMaViS-user mailing list
AMaViS-userlists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amavis-user

AMaViS-FAQ:http://www.amav
is.org/amavis-faq.php3
AMaViS-HowTos:http://www.amavis.org/ho
wto/

junkpath.berkeley.edu wrote:
>> you deliver messages tagged as
"undesirable" to a quarantine. This may be
>> - a junk folder
>> - spam headers added to message (then MUAs are
configured to use these
>> to eithe put the message in a special folder or to
just allow user to
>> order messages so that they can focus on untagged
messages first).
>> - tagged subject. variant of the above, but I don't
like it.
>> - quarantine server (another pop/imap server).
dbmail may be handy here.
>> - webmail
>> - web quarantine (mailzu for instance)
>> - amavisd-new quarantine
>> ...
>>     
>
> I want a legit sender to know their message was
quarantined.  Quarantine
> makes it so the recipients know something was up (and
retrieve if
> desired). 

Let's not debate the defintion of a quarantine. To me, an
IMAP Junk 
folder is a quarantine. reviewing my previous post:

- junk folder: This is an IMAP folder that the user sees in
his MUA.
- spam headers: the message is seen by the user. it is up to
the user to 
create rules in his MUA to flter these
- tagged subject: the message is seen by the user. it is up
to the user 
to create rules in his MUA to flter these
- webmail: the user has access to his webmail and thus to
his quarantine
- webmail quarantine: the user has access to his quarantine

so 5 out of 7 of the proposed mechanisms provide direct
access by the 
recipient. Choose for yourself...

I myself use IMAP folders, and I check my Junk folder
periodically. I 
use .Junk, .Junk.Trash and .Junk.Error folders. The .Error
is for false 
positives, the .Trash is for confirmed spam, including False
negatives. 
server scripts use these for filter training.

>  Sending a rejection code lets the senders know
something was
> up without sending bounces to innocent bystanders.
>   

As a recipient of a lot of "rejection code", I can
only tell you this: 
stop it. If you think that fighting spam is as easy as
rejecting mail, 
then you are wrong. You are free to rject mail if you think
it is spam, 
but you are responsible of your own errors. As one my
teachers used to 
say: you can cheat, but don't get caught.


------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the
chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys
-- and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.
php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
_______________________________________________
AMaViS-user mailing list
AMaViS-userlists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amavis-user

AMaViS-FAQ:http://www.amav
is.org/amavis-faq.php3
AMaViS-HowTos:http://www.amavis.org/ho
wto/

What are you talking about?

 > Let's not debate the defintion of a quarantine. To me,
an IMAP Junk
 > folder is a quarantine. reviewing my previous post:

Ok...I don't recall debating this with you at all.  So this
shouldn't be 
a problem.

 > As a recipient of a lot of "rejection code",
I can only tell you this:
 > stop it. If you think that fighting spam is as easy as
rejecting mail,
 > then you are wrong. You are free to rject mail if you
think it is spam,
 > but you are responsible of your own errors. As one my
teachers used to
 > say: you can cheat, but don't get caught.

No.  You are receiving bounces.  Bounces are not rejections.
 Rejections 
are sent to the mailer WHILE they are connected.  If YOU are
receiving a 
lot of rejections (NOT BOUNCES) this means YOU are sending a
lot of 
things that others are being interpreted as spam or viruses.

mouss wrote:
> junkpath.berkeley.edu wrote:
>>> you deliver messages tagged as
"undesirable" to a quarantine. This 
>>> may be
>>> - a junk folder
>>> - spam headers added to message (then MUAs are
configured to use these
>>> to eithe put the message in a special folder or
to just allow user to
>>> order messages so that they can focus on
untagged messages first).
>>> - tagged subject. variant of the above, but I
don't like it.
>>> - quarantine server (another pop/imap server).
dbmail may be handy here.
>>> - webmail
>>> - web quarantine (mailzu for instance)
>>> - amavisd-new quarantine
>>> ...
>>>     
>>
>> I want a legit sender to know their message was
quarantined.  Quarantine
>> makes it so the recipients know something was up
(and retrieve if
>> desired). 
> 
> Let's not debate the defintion of a quarantine. To me,
an IMAP Junk 
> folder is a quarantine. reviewing my previous post:
> 
> - junk folder: This is an IMAP folder that the user
sees in his MUA.
> - spam headers: the message is seen by the user. it is
up to the user to 
> create rules in his MUA to flter these
> - tagged subject: the message is seen by the user. it
is up to the user 
> to create rules in his MUA to flter these
> - webmail: the user has access to his webmail and thus
to his quarantine
> - webmail quarantine: the user has access to his
quarantine
> 
> so 5 out of 7 of the proposed mechanisms provide direct
access by the 
> recipient. Choose for yourself...
> 
> I myself use IMAP folders, and I check my Junk folder
periodically. I 
> use .Junk, .Junk.Trash and .Junk.Error folders. The
.Error is for false 
> positives, the .Trash is for confirmed spam, including
False negatives. 
> server scripts use these for filter training.
> 
>>  Sending a rejection code lets the senders know
something was
>> up without sending bounces to innocent bystanders.
>>   
> 
> As a recipient of a lot of "rejection code",
I can only tell you this: 
> stop it. If you think that fighting spam is as easy as
rejecting mail, 
> then you are wrong. You are free to rject mail if you
think it is spam, 
> but you are responsible of your own errors. As one my
teachers used to 
> say: you can cheat, but don't get caught.

------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the
chance to share your
opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys
-- and earn cash
http://www.techsay.com/default.
php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
_______________________________________________
AMaViS-user mailing list
AMaViS-userlists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amavis-user

AMaViS-FAQ:http://www.amav
is.org/amavis-faq.php3
AMaViS-HowTos:http://www.amavis.org/ho
wto/