Debugging: edit and continue, HOW?

Please, read the comments too, there are a lot of comments
explaining
why E&C is a great tool. A tool should not be
removed/forbidden, because
it can be abused (in your NSHO).

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion of advanced .NET topics.
[mailto:ADVANCED-DOTNETDISCUSS.DEVELOP.COM] On Behalf Of Frans
Bouma
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 14:51
To: ADVANCED-DOTNETDISCUSS.DEVELOP.COM
Subject: Re: [ADVANCED-DOTNET] Debugging: edit and continue,
HOW?

> Google searches for the last 15 minutes comes up with
pages
> which happily sing in harmony and joy, claiming edit
&
> continue is back with vs.net 2005. Being a complete
dumb, I
> could not figure out the way it works for asp.net.
> In vs.net 2005 I have set a breakpoint in a web
project, and
> changed to code in the method (a button click handler
> actually) . The result was a dialog telling me the code
that
> is being debugged has changed.

        as far as I know, E&C isn't available in asp.net
scenario's,
only in non-ASP.NET related projects, this because it's too
cumbersome to restart the webprocess with the same state as
it depends
on IIS.

> What I'd like to have is the mechanism I have in
Eclipse and
> Java (this is certainly not a flame war invitation,
please
> stay calm.): I get into a method, see that I have
written
> something stupid, but I have just spend my precious
time to
> fill in the fields in the UI, and in case i want to
change
> the method, I have to stop debugging, change code,
compile,
> start app, perform all user functionality till I get to
the
> point I was before (think about a wizard with bulky
pages)
> etc etc.  In Eclipse, I just change the method, press
save,
> and the debugger goes back to the beginning of the
stack,
> with my precious input still ready.
> This is a huge time saver for me in development, and
I'd love
> to use it in vs.net 2005.
> Any ideas?

        Well, one idea could be to drop E&C requiring
coding styles.
It's that simple. E&C propagates sloppy coding 'because
you can
fix it during debugging anyway', forgetting that debugging
is costly and
time consuming and should be avoided until the only way to
determine what causes a bug is to start the debugger,
carefully placing
breakpoints etc.

        I never need E&C and still am productive in
writing software.
It's not that I do something special, it's just that most of
the time, thinking for 1 minute saves you more than 5
minutes of
debugging. For kicks, read my article why E&C isn't
solving
anything and how to debug software properly:
http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma/archive/2003/08/01/2221
1.aspx

                FB



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> Please, read the comments too, there are a lot of
comments
> explaining why E&C is a great tool. A tool should
not be
> removed/forbidden, because it can be abused (in your
NSHO).

        I know the comments, and I don't see any reason why
there's even 1 reason for E&C. Mind you: if you need
E&C and it's not
there, you can solve your problem two ways:
1) ask for E&C
2) change the way you debug software.

        2) might sound stupid, but in this context it's not.
Trust me, productive finding and solving bugs doesn't need
E&C. I never
use it (it's switched off) nor do I ever run into a
situation where I need it.

        You know what they should have build in instead of
E&C? Step into method. So that when you're on a
statement like:

        SomeMethod(foo.Property1, foo.Property2);

        you directly step into SomeMethod instead of first
into getter of Property1 and Property2.

        Sure, pressing F12, setting a breakpoint, F5, it
somewhat works, but it would have been a much better feature
to have than
E&C.

        But perhaps I miss something and my debugging skills
are not that productive, though I doubt it (I appologize to
everyone
who finds that last remark arrogant)

                FB



>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of advanced .NET topics.
> [mailto:ADVANCED-DOTNETDISCUSS.DEVELOP.COM] On
Behalf Of Frans Bouma
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 14:51
> To: ADVANCED-DOTNETDISCUSS.DEVELOP.COM
> Subject: Re: [ADVANCED-DOTNET] Debugging: edit and
continue, HOW?
>
> > Google searches for the last 15 minutes comes up
with pages which
> > happily sing in harmony and joy, claiming edit
& continue
> is back with
> > vs.net 2005. Being a complete dumb, I could not
figure out
> the way it
> > works for asp.net.
> > In vs.net 2005 I have set a breakpoint in a web
project,
> and changed
> > to code in the method (a button click handler
> > actually) . The result was a dialog telling me the
code
> that is being
> > debugged has changed.
>
>         as far as I know, E&C isn't available in
asp.net
> scenario's, only in non-ASP.NET related projects, this
> because it's too cumbersome to restart the webprocess
with
> the same state as it depends on IIS.
>
> > What I'd like to have is the mechanism I have in
Eclipse and Java
> > (this is certainly not a flame war invitation,
please stay
> calm.): I
> > get into a method, see that I have written
something stupid, but I
> > have just spend my precious time to fill in the
fields in
> the UI, and
> > in case i want to change the method, I have to
stop
> debugging, change
> > code, compile, start app, perform all user
functionality
> till I get to
> > the point I was before (think about a wizard with
bulky pages) etc
> > etc.  In Eclipse, I just change the method, press
save, and the
> > debugger goes back to the beginning of the stack,
with my precious
> > input still ready.
> > This is a huge time saver for me in development,
and I'd
> love to use
> > it in vs.net 2005.
> > Any ideas?
>
>         Well, one idea could be to drop E&C
requiring coding styles.
> It's that simple. E&C propagates sloppy coding
'because you
> can fix it during debugging anyway', forgetting that
> debugging is costly and time consuming and should be
avoided
> until the only way to determine what causes a bug is to
start
> the debugger, carefully placing breakpoints etc.
>
>         I never need E&C and still am productive in
writing software.
> It's not that I do something special, it's just that
most of
> the time, thinking for 1 minute saves you more than 5
minutes
> of debugging. For kicks, read my article why E&C
isn't
> solving anything and how to debug software properly:
> http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma/archive/2003/08/01/2221
1.aspx
>
>                 FB
>
>
>
> ===================================
> This list is hosted by DevelopMentor(r)  http://www.develop.com
>
> View archives and manage your subscription(s) at
> http://discuss.develop.com

>
> ===================================
> This list is hosted by DevelopMentor.  http://www.develop.com
>
> View archives and manage your subscription(s) at
> http://discuss.develop.com

>
>

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