- idea: permalink module

Hi


I hope not to distract from the release work!


Our website has basically two parts:

1) Lenya Publication
2) PHP Shop Application

There will be links from the shop to lenya pages. E.g. to
pages  
describing product categories in more detail - or giving
further  
information about the company.

Lenya's internal links syntax (lenya-document:...)
seems ideal  
to write permalinks.


Our idea is to make the lenya internal link syntax
(lenya-document...)  
accessible from outside via a permalink module.

- request to match in the module sitemap:  
lenya.usecase=permalink.return-url&uuid=1233&lang=en
&extension=html
- write  a custom cocoon action to return the currently
valid url for  
given uuid, language, extension
   (reuse some code from the uuid2url transformer class)
- redirect to the url returned by the action (or display
page  
informing the user, the permalink is invalid)


If you find the time, I'd appreciate your comments /
thoughts about  
that idea.

Thanks in advance!


Jürgen Ragaller





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Hi Thorsten

Am 26.11.2007 um 10:11 schrieb Thorsten Scherler
>
>
> Many organizations need human read-/understandable
urls. Having the  
> uuid
> in the path seems very ugly.

True such a (perma)-link looks ugly - but since the
document-url can  
be changed by the lenya editor a permalink can enhance
external link  
durability.

That's why I think it makes sense to redirect to the
currently valid  
human readable url issuing a redirect (<map:redirect-to
url="target- 
doc.html"/>).

> How about:
> http://host.com/pub/area/
myDocu_en.html?lenya.module=permalink&id=123123-asdfa-32
34


Mmh - IIUC the document's name (myDocu_en) is not known at
that moment  
- and can be changed at any time.


Thanks for the feedback!

Jürgen




null-oder-eins GmbH Zürich
web & graphic design

www.null-oder-eins.ch

ragallerapache.org
Skype: callto://ragaller




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Juergen Ragaller wrote:
> Hi
>
>
> I hope not to distract from the release work!
>
>
> Our website has basically two parts:
>
> 1) Lenya Publication
> 2) PHP Shop Application
>
> There will be links from the shop to lenya pages. E.g.
to pages 
> describing product categories in more detail - or
giving further 
> information about the company.
>
> Lenya's internal links syntax
(lenya-document:...) seems ideal 
> to write permalinks.
>
>
> Our idea is to make the lenya internal link syntax
(lenya-document...) 
> accessible from outside via a permalink module.
>
> - request to match in the module sitemap: 
>
lenya.usecase=permalink.return-url&uuid=1233&lang=en
&extension=html
> - write  a custom cocoon action to return the currently
valid url for 
> given uuid, language, extension
>   (reuse some code from the uuid2url transformer
class)
> - redirect to the url returned by the action (or
display page 
> informing the user, the permalink is invalid)
>
>
> If you find the time, I'd appreciate your comments /
thoughts about 
> that idea.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
>
> Jürgen Ragaller
>
We did discuss this at the Zurich hackathon. The decision at
the time 
was to delay such a thing until later. It is certainly
something I would 
like to see in 2.0.1. I brought the idea up, as images are
inserted into 
the visual editors with their human readable URLs. If a URL
were to be 
changed while a page referencing it was being edited, the
reference 
would be lost. So, I see such a capability to be very
useful, so long as 
the svg module can be used as well.

Richard

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Hi Richard

Am 26.11.2007 um 15:41 schrieb Richard Frovarp:
>>
>>
> We did discuss this at the Zurich hackathon. The
decision at the  
> time was to delay such a thing until later.
> It is certainly something I would like to see in 2.0.1.
I brought  
> the idea up, as images are inserted into the visual
editors with  
> their human readable URLs. If a URL were to be changed
while a page  
> referencing it was being edited, the reference would be
lost. So, I  
> see such a capability to be very useful, so long as the
svg module  
> can be used as well.

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm all for delaying the discussion 'till after the 2.0
release.
It was important for me to get some orientation about the
idea so I  
can keep thinking and exploring around it.

Jürgen




null-oder-eins GmbH Zürich
web & graphic design

www.null-oder-eins.ch

ragallerapache.org
Skype: callto://ragaller




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Hi Andreas


Am 26.11.2007 um 10:04 schrieb Andreas Hartmann:
>
> Or how about something like this:
>
> http://host.com/pub/area/123123-asdfa-3
234_en.html?lenya.module=permalink
>
> Or we could even standardize this URL scheme so that
the lenya.module
> request parameter isn't required (using a simplified
regex):
>
>
> <map:match type="regex"
>          
pattern="w-w-w-w-w_w+.w+"&g
t;
>  <map:redirect-to
uri="{uuid2url:...}"/>
> </map:match>

interesting; but how can these instructions then be placed
in a  
permalink module?

>
>
>
>> - write  a custom cocoon action to return the
currently valid url  
>> for given uuid, language, extension
>>  (reuse some code from the uuid2url transformer
class)
>
> +1 (though I'd rather use an input module than an
action)

I'll have a look at existing ones.

>
>
>> - redirect to the url returned by the action (or
display page  
>> informing the user, the permalink is invalid)
>
> IIUC Lenya would issue the redirect?

yes - I thought so.

>
>
>> If you find the time, I'd appreciate your comments
/ thoughts about  
>> that idea.
>
> IMO this is a very good idea.


Feels very encouraging )

Thanks for your feedback!


Jürgen


null-oder-eins GmbH
web & graphic design

Anna Heerstrasse 14
8057 Zürich
www.null-oder-eins.ch
Tel +41 44 350 56 26
Fax +41 44 350 56 27

Jürgen Ragaller
ragallernull-oder-eins.ch
Skype: callto://ragaller





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Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Or how about something like this:
> 
> http://host.com/pub/area/123123-asdfa-3
234_en.html?lenya.module=permalink

sorry to spoil the party, but i *really* hate this
lenya.module syntax. 
it's totally bass-ackwards imnsho, because the main part of
the URI *is 
not meaningful* unless it is redirected to a module sitemap
via the GET 
parameter. that means it totally changes the common-sense
hierachy of 
URL parts. a GET parameter should be a specification of the
main uri 
(maybe requesting a specific view or passing parameters).
what we do 
here is make the querystring the main thing and the path
becomes its 
parameter.

i really like the permalink idea, but since it's going to be
a module 
anyways, why not use http://host.com/modules/permalink/<UUID>?lang=FOO?


-- 
Jörn Nettingsmeier

"One of my most productive days was throwing away 1000
lines of code."
   - Ken Thompson.


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Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> Many organizations need human read-/understandable
urls. Having the uuid
> in the path seems very ugly. How about:
> http://host.com/pub/area/
myDocu_en.html?lenya.module=permalink&id=123123-asdfa-32
34

for the record, i don't think permalink urls have to be
nice. they have 
to be *systematic*, unambigious and concise. more
importantly, they 
should not require human interaction.

the scheme you are suggesting introduces redundancy or worse
yet, 
ambiguity, because in order to work, the file name would
have to be 
disregarded and only the UUID used. which becomes extra
funny once 
people figure they can use 
http://customer.com/HOT_XXX_MOVIEZ.html?permalink=fooo
to link to your 
company's yearly revenue report. not nice at all.


-- 
Jörn Nettingsmeier

"One of my most productive days was throwing away 1000
lines of code."
   - Ken Thompson.


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Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Jürgen Ragaller schrieb:
>> Hi Andreas
>>
>>
>> Am 26.11.2007 um 10:04 schrieb Andreas Hartmann:
>>>
>>> Or how about something like this:
>>>
>>> http://host.com/pub/area/123123-asdfa-3
234_en.html?lenya.module=permalink 
>>>
>>>
>>> Or we could even standardize this URL scheme so
that the lenya.module
>>> request parameter isn't required (using a
simplified regex):
>>>
>>>
>>> <map:match type="regex"
>>>          
pattern="w-w-w-w-w_w+.w+"&g
t;
>>>  <map:redirect-to
uri="{uuid2url:...}"/>
>>> </map:match>
>>
>> interesting; but how can these instructions then be
placed in a 
>> permalink module?
> 
> If it is a standardized URL scheme, it would be matched
in the core 
> sitemap (global-sitemap.xmap).

-1

1st Lenya commandment:
THOU SHALT NOT HACK THE NEAT FEATURE OF THE DAY INTO THE
GLOBAL SITEMAP.

> No idea if this makes sense, or if the permalink module
is
> perferrable.

it's simply not an option to create new features outside of
modules, 
because the chainsaw-equipped sitemap janitor will come
after you and 
use some very rude words indeed.


-- 
Jörn Nettingsmeier

"One of my most productive days was throwing away 1000
lines of code."
   - Ken Thompson.


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Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> Or how about something like this:
>>
>> http://host.com/pub/area/123123-asdfa-3
234_en.html?lenya.module=permalink 
>>
>
> sorry to spoil the party, but i *really* hate this
lenya.module 
> syntax. it's totally bass-ackwards imnsho, because the
main part of 
> the URI *is not meaningful* unless it is redirected to
a module 
> sitemap via the GET parameter. that means it totally
changes the 
> common-sense hierachy of URL parts. a GET parameter
should be a 
> specification of the main uri (maybe requesting a
specific view or 
> passing parameters). what we do here is make the
querystring the main 
> thing and the path becomes its parameter.
>
> i really like the permalink idea, but since it's going
to be a module 
> anyways, why not use http://host.com/modules/permalink/<UUID>?lang=FOO?

>
Is it possible to chain modules together? What I want is a
permalink I 
can throw at the SVG module for images.

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Richard Frovarp wrote:
> Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
>> i really like the permalink idea, but since it's
going to be a module 
>> anyways, why not use http://host.com/modules/permalink/<UUID>?lang=FOO?

>>
> Is it possible to chain modules together? What I want
is a permalink I 
> can throw at the SVG module for images.

hmm. all this proposed module does is expose the UUID to the
outside 
world, which is not exactly rocket science.
it would probably be easiest to just make the svg module
handle UUIDs as 
well.
that said, we might just make it a mandatory requirement
that each 
module which works on documents must also match 
/modules/<moduleName>/*-*-* (or whatever pattern
matches UUIDs, i don't 
remember now). our module sitemap interfaces need some
cleaning up anyways.

wdyt?

anyways, this is definitely post 2.0 stuff imho. i see the
potential 
problem you mentioned (changing image path while a document
referencing 
this image is being edited), but imho it's sufficiently rare
to just 
live with it for the moment and carefully think about a
really good 
solution for 2.0.1 instead of a quick hack now.

-- 
Jörn Nettingsmeier

"One of my most productive days was throwing away 1000
lines of code."
   - Ken Thompson.

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