Couple of proposals for 4.0

Small things, but I wanted to see what people thought.


*1* Sticky entries. User is able to make a blog remain at
the top of
their HTML (though not their RSS). The order of multiple
sticky
entries would remain by date.

I'm never sure what Pinned to Main means, I think it pins it
to the
planet-like blog on the front page? It doesn't seem to do
the above
and there's nothing on the standard blog install now that
seems to
match the javadoc description of: "True if story should
be pinned to
the top of the Roller site main blog."

*2* Shareable posts. The ability for a user to post to more
than one
blog at a time. Rather than copying them, I think what we'd
do is have
the blog entry be authored for one blog, but then have the
ability for
the author (or another author on that blog) to share them
with other
blogs. I'm unsure whether the permissions should be:

i) An author can share to any blog that they have write
permissions to.
ii) An author can share to any blog that is set up as able
to share to
in the blog's permissions (regardless of permissions).
iii) Both of the above; ie) configure the blogs you can
share to AND need perms.


Sorry if these ideas have already come up, I'm not that up
to date on
all the proposals and various features in use at different
installs.

Hen

On 3/8/07, Henri Yandell <flamefewgmail.com> wrote:
> Small things, but I wanted to see what people thought.
>
> *1* Sticky entries. User is able to make a blog remain
at the top of
> their HTML (though not their RSS). The order of
multiple sticky
> entries would remain by date.
>
> I'm never sure what Pinned to Main means, I think it
pins it to the
> planet-like blog on the front page? It doesn't seem to
do the above
> and there's nothing on the standard blog install now
that seems to
> match the javadoc description of: "True if story
should be pinned to
> the top of the Roller site main blog."

I consider that a bug. The standard front-page theme should
support
pinned-to-main, which is a Global-Admin only way to pin a
blog entry
to the front-page of a Roller site.

I think adding a "pinned" option for make good
sense.


> *2* Shareable posts. The ability for a user to post to
more than one
> blog at a time. Rather than copying them, I think what
we'd do is have
> the blog entry be authored for one blog, but then have
the ability for
> the author (or another author on that blog) to share
them with other
> blogs. I'm unsure whether the permissions should be:
>
> i) An author can share to any blog that they have write
permissions to.
> ii) An author can share to any blog that is set up as
able to share to
> in the blog's permissions (regardless of permissions).
> iii) Both of the above; ie) configure the blogs you can
share to AND need perms.

Sounds kind of complicated. You'd do that via many-to-many
relationship between weblogs and entries?  Can't we solve
that problem
with aggregation instead?

- Dave

Dave wrote:
> [snip]
> I consider that a bug. The standard front-page theme
should support
> pinned-to-main, which is a Global-Admin only way to pin
a blog entry
> to the front-page of a Roller site.
> 
> I think adding a "pinned" option for make
good sense.
> 

As a general FYI, I'm taking a slightly different tact with
pinned
entries  "Pinned to main" entries in our updated
internal blogs will
show up as popup notices on the front page separate from the
other
entries.  They will be used to inform users of planned
outages, etc and
will be listed separately from the other entries.  Among our
user base
of several thousand bloggers, I haven't heard of any one
clammering for
the ability to pin posts to the tops of their own blog
pages.

> 
>> *2* Shareable posts. The ability for a user to post
to more than one
>> blog at a time. Rather than copying them, I think
what we'd do is have
>> the blog entry be authored for one blog, but then
have the ability for
>> the author (or another author on that blog) to
share them with other
>> blogs. I'm unsure whether the permissions should
be:
>>
>> i) An author can share to any blog that they have
write permissions to.
>> ii) An author can share to any blog that is set up
as able to share to
>> in the blog's permissions (regardless of
permissions).
>> iii) Both of the above; ie) configure the blogs you
can share to AND
>> need perms.
> 
> Sounds kind of complicated. You'd do that via
many-to-many
> relationship between weblogs and entries?  Can't we
solve that problem
> with aggregation instead?
> 

Sounds really complicated to me and not really all that
useful.  Planet
aggregation seems like a much better / more elegant
approach.

- James

James M Snell wrote:
> Dave wrote:
>> [snip]
>> I consider that a bug. The standard front-page
theme should support
>> pinned-to-main, which is a Global-Admin only way to
pin a blog entry
>> to the front-page of a Roller site.
>>
>> I think adding a "pinned" option for make
good sense.
>>
> 
> As a general FYI, I'm taking a slightly different tact
with pinned
> entries  "Pinned to main" entries in our
updated internal blogs will
> show up as popup notices on the front page separate
from the other
> entries.  They will be used to inform users of planned
outages, etc and
> will be listed separately from the other entries. 
Among our user base
> of several thousand bloggers, I haven't heard of any
one clammering for
> the ability to pin posts to the tops of their own blog
pages.

I agree that "pinned to main" is a bad description
of that feature and 
we can probably do better, plus it should be built into the
default 
frontpage theme.

I also agree with James that this is not likely to be a
feature that 
normal blogs would really benefit from as evidenced by the
fact that 
AFAIK nobody has asked for it yet.  I would probably defer
to what other 
major blog software is doing for the final decision though,
do 
MovableType and WordPress offer this?


> 
>>> *2* Shareable posts. The ability for a user to
post to more than one
>>> blog at a time. Rather than copying them, I
think what we'd do is have
>>> the blog entry be authored for one blog, but
then have the ability for
>>> the author (or another author on that blog) to
share them with other
>>> blogs. I'm unsure whether the permissions
should be:
>>>
>>> i) An author can share to any blog that they
have write permissions to.
>>> ii) An author can share to any blog that is set
up as able to share to
>>> in the blog's permissions (regardless of
permissions).
>>> iii) Both of the above; ie) configure the blogs
you can share to AND
>>> need perms.
>> Sounds kind of complicated. You'd do that via
many-to-many
>> relationship between weblogs and entries?  Can't we
solve that problem
>> with aggregation instead?
>>
> 
> Sounds really complicated to me and not really all that
useful.  Planet
> aggregation seems like a much better / more elegant
approach.

I agree, an aggregation is a nicer way of solving this
problem in a 
whole variety of ways.

-- Allen


> 
> - James

On 3/8/07, Elias Torres <eliastorrez.us> wrote:
>
>
> Henri Yandell wrote:
> > On 3/8/07, Allen Gilliland <allen.gillilandsun.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> [snip]
> >
> > So maybe this is "we should allow multiple
categories for a blog entry"?
>
> You can use tags. We have feeds based on tags and we
support multiple of
>  those. I'm also working on search feeds.

I've been meaning to ask - are categories automatically tags
in your setup?

How do people share their tag dictionaries with each other?

Hen

On 3/8/07, Allen Gilliland <allen.gillilandsun.com> wrote:
>
>
> James M Snell wrote:
> > Dave wrote:
> >> [snip]
> >> I consider that a bug. The standard front-page
theme should support
> >> pinned-to-main, which is a Global-Admin only
way to pin a blog entry
> >> to the front-page of a Roller site.
> >>
> >> I think adding a "pinned" option for
make good sense.
> >>
> >
> > As a general FYI, I'm taking a slightly different
tact with pinned
> > entries  "Pinned to main" entries in our
updated internal blogs will
> > show up as popup notices on the front page
separate from the other
> > entries.  They will be used to inform users of
planned outages, etc and
> > will be listed separately from the other entries. 
Among our user base
> > of several thousand bloggers, I haven't heard of
any one clammering for
> > the ability to pin posts to the tops of their own
blog pages.
>
> I agree that "pinned to main" is a bad
description of that feature and
> we can probably do better, plus it should be built into
the default
> frontpage theme.
>
> I also agree with James that this is not likely to be a
feature that
> normal blogs would really benefit from as evidenced by
the fact that
> AFAIK nobody has asked for it yet.  I would probably
defer to what other
> major blog software is doing for the final decision
though, do
> MovableType and WordPress offer this?

Apparantly other blog engines do do this, but we'll (family)
need to
look around to figure out which ones. I know it's been
Carrie's #1
requested feature for the last 3 years 

> >>> *2* Shareable posts. The ability for a
user to post to more than one
> >>> blog at a time. Rather than copying them,
I think what we'd do is have
> >>> the blog entry be authored for one blog,
but then have the ability for
> >>> the author (or another author on that
blog) to share them with other
> >>> blogs. I'm unsure whether the permissions
should be:
> >>>
> >>> i) An author can share to any blog that
they have write permissions to.
> >>> ii) An author can share to any blog that
is set up as able to share to
> >>> in the blog's permissions (regardless of
permissions).
> >>> iii) Both of the above; ie) configure the
blogs you can share to AND
> >>> need perms.
> >> Sounds kind of complicated. You'd do that via
many-to-many
> >> relationship between weblogs and entries? 
Can't we solve that problem
> >> with aggregation instead?
> >>
> >
> > Sounds really complicated to me and not really all
that useful.  Planet
> > aggregation seems like a much better / more
elegant approach.
>
> I agree, an aggregation is a nicer way of solving this
problem in a
> whole variety of ways.

I'm probably not up to date on how to do the aggregation.
Ive been
meaning to ask if there are any docs for getting up and
running with
Roller's Planet.

My understanding of this feature is that it's for when a
user has
multiple blogs and they wish to post to both blogs at the
same time.
Doing that via aggregation seems very painful. I could see
how someone
could have one blog with multiple categories (and then
subcategories)
and treat each category as its own blog visually. Then if we
supported
a blog entry being in more than one category it could be
shared.

So maybe this is "we should allow multiple categories
for a blog entry"?

Hen

Henri Yandell wrote:
> On 3/8/07, Elias Torres <eliastorrez.us> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Henri Yandell wrote:
>> > On 3/8/07, Allen Gilliland
<allen.gillilandsun.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> [snip]
>> >
>> > So maybe this is "we should allow
multiple categories for a blog
>> entry"?
>>
>> You can use tags. We have feeds based on tags and
we support multiple of
>>  those. I'm also working on search feeds.
> 
> I've been meaning to ask - are categories automatically
tags in your setup?

We disabled categories altogether. Redundant.

> 
> How do people share their tag dictionaries with each
other?

We have a tagcloud. But no "tag dictionary" per
se.

-Elias

> 
> Hen
> 

Henri Yandell wrote:
> On 3/8/07, Allen Gilliland <allen.gillilandsun.com> wrote:
>>
>>
[snip]
> 
> So maybe this is "we should allow multiple
categories for a blog entry"?

You can use tags. We have feeds based on tags and we support
multiple of
 those. I'm also working on search feeds.

-Elias

> 
> Hen
> 

I would like to expand on Hen's requests with some
explanation about
why I think these features would be a good addition to
Roller.

====

RE: *1* Sticky entries. User is able to make a blog remain
at the top of
their HTML (though not their RSS). The order of multiple
sticky
entries would remain by date.

I've seen "sticky posts" several times on other
blogs, and I have been
harping on Hen to make it happen for me for the past few
years for the
following reasons:

1) I basically blog for two reasons. Mostly it's "note
to self" type
stuff. However I also post longer entries where I seek
feedback,
comments, and opinions. These posts are more
"important" as far as
community is concerned. I also tend to post a fair bit, so
what bugs
me about my blog is that my "important" entries
fall off the bottom
fairly quickly. I think it would be great to be able to
"pin" some of
my entries to the top so that I could catch a few more
comments if
possible, particularly for those who check my blog only
rarely as
opposed to using a feeder.

2) Another scenario involves the blog community I'm most
involved with
-- knitting. There are blogs called "knitalongs"
where everyone is
working on the same project. One blog will have multiple
authors. They
post progress on their own projects and questions to other
knitters on
these blogs. Frequently with knitting, errata will be
posted, and this
is usually posted at the top of the blog. GREAT usage of
sticky posts
in my opinion!

I did a quick google search and turns out I'm not the only
one seeking
sticky posts:

http://www.stephanspencer.com
/archives/2006/02/26/blog-seo-tip-6-make-sticky-posts/
http://labnol.blogspot.com/2006/09/blo
gging-tricks-how-to-make-sticky.html
http://blog.blogware.com/help/index.html?stickyposts.htm

http://blogger-tricks.blogspot.com/search/label/sti
cky%20post

Okay so most of these illustrate hacks for getting a post to
stay
"sticky". The point is it's a useful feature and a
feature that people
are seeking.

====

RE: *2* Shareable posts. The ability for a user to post to
more than one
blog at a time. Rather than copying them, I think what we'd
do is have
the blog entry be authored for one blog, but then have the
ability for
the author (or another author on that blog) to share them
with other
blogs

My rational for this is simple: I maintain two blogs and
sometimes
they overlap. It would be easier to have a mechanism whereby
I could
post this on both blogs rather than going through the steps
to copy,
past and publish it on my other blog as well.

Roller itself encourages people to author more than one blog
on the
Main Menu page:

"Feel like you've got more to say? Maybe another weblog
is what you need."

Okay so I have two blogs -- one for my crafty (and personal)
endeavors
and one for our son that Hen also contributes to. Back to
the knitting
world (and the Mommy Blog world does this too, but I won't
go there),
this is incredibly common. Lots of folks have one blog for
whatever
their passion (and community) is, and one for personal
stuff. And
sometimes even a third expressly for their kids.

The problem is my two blogs are starting to overlap,
especially as
Nathan gets old enough for craft stuff. So more and more
often I'm
contemplating where to post something when it really goes on
both.

Again with the knitting blogs, you see the sentence
"cross-posted at
my whatever blog" quite a lot. Especially with the
knitalongs --
people want a record not only at the knitalong blog, but
also at their
personal blog. You see the same post both places. Wouldn't
it be nice
and easy to be able to just post both at the same time?

I haven't seen this feature anywhere, but I think it's a
great idea.
And maybe it would be a good thing to have some unique
features.

Carrie Yandell

On 3/8/07, James M Snell <jasnellgmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dave wrote:
> > [snip]
> > I consider that a bug. The standard front-page
theme should support
> > pinned-to-main, which is a Global-Admin only way
to pin a blog entry
> > to the front-page of a Roller site.
> >
> > I think adding a "pinned" option for
make good sense.
> >
>
> As a general FYI, I'm taking a slightly different tact
with pinned
> entries  "Pinned to main" entries in our
updated internal blogs will
> show up as popup notices on the front page separate
from the other
> entries.  They will be used to inform users of planned
outages, etc and
> will be listed separately from the other entries. 
Among our user base
> of several thousand bloggers, I haven't heard of any
one clammering for
> the ability to pin posts to the tops of their own blog
pages.
>
> >
> >> *2* Shareable posts. The ability for a user to
post to more than one
> >> blog at a time. Rather than copying them, I
think what we'd do is have
> >> the blog entry be authored for one blog, but
then have the ability for
> >> the author (or another author on that blog) to
share them with other
> >> blogs. I'm unsure whether the permissions
should be:
> >>
> >> i) An author can share to any blog that they
have write permissions to.
> >> ii) An author can share to any blog that is
set up as able to share to
> >> in the blog's permissions (regardless of
permissions).
> >> iii) Both of the above; ie) configure the
blogs you can share to AND
> >> need perms.
> >
> > Sounds kind of complicated. You'd do that via
many-to-many
> > relationship between weblogs and entries?  Can't
we solve that problem
> > with aggregation instead?
> >
>
> Sounds really complicated to me and not really all that
useful.  Planet
> aggregation seems like a much better / more elegant
approach.
>
> - James
>

Carrie Yandell wrote:
> I would like to expand on Hen's requests with some
explanation about
> why I think these features would be a good addition to
Roller.
> 
> ====
> 
> RE: *1* Sticky entries. User is able to make a blog
remain at the top of
> their HTML (though not their RSS). The order of
multiple sticky
> entries would remain by date.
> 
> I've seen "sticky posts" several times on
other blogs, and I have been
> harping on Hen to make it happen for me for the past
few years for the
> following reasons:
> 
> 1) I basically blog for two reasons. Mostly it's
"note to self" type
> stuff. However I also post longer entries where I seek
feedback,
> comments, and opinions. These posts are more
"important" as far as
> community is concerned. I also tend to post a fair bit,
so what bugs
> me about my blog is that my "important"
entries fall off the bottom
> fairly quickly. I think it would be great to be able to
"pin" some of
> my entries to the top so that I could catch a few more
comments if
> possible, particularly for those who check my blog only
rarely as
> opposed to using a feeder.
> 
> 2) Another scenario involves the blog community I'm
most involved with
> -- knitting. There are blogs called
"knitalongs" where everyone is
> working on the same project. One blog will have
multiple authors. They
> post progress on their own projects and questions to
other knitters on
> these blogs. Frequently with knitting, errata will be
posted, and this
> is usually posted at the top of the blog. GREAT usage
of sticky posts
> in my opinion!
> 
> I did a quick google search and turns out I'm not the
only one seeking
> sticky posts:
> 
> http://www.stephanspencer.com
/archives/2006/02/26/blog-seo-tip-6-make-sticky-posts/ 
> 
> http://labnol.blogspot.com/2006/09/blo
gging-tricks-how-to-make-sticky.html
> http://blog.blogware.com/help/index.html?stickyposts.htm

> http://blogger-tricks.blogspot.com/search/label/sti
cky%20post
> 
> Okay so most of these illustrate hacks for getting a
post to stay
> "sticky". The point is it's a useful feature
and a feature that people
> are seeking.

I'm not sure that those links really convinced me that this
is highly 
sought after feature for blogs, but I can certainly see how
it would be 
useful in certain situations and ultimately I have no
problem with 
adding it in.

So I am +1 to the idea if you want to do it.


> 
> ====
> 
> RE: *2* Shareable posts. The ability for a user to post
to more than one
> blog at a time. Rather than copying them, I think what
we'd do is have
> the blog entry be authored for one blog, but then have
the ability for
> the author (or another author on that blog) to share
them with other
> blogs
> 
> My rational for this is simple: I maintain two blogs
and sometimes
> they overlap. It would be easier to have a mechanism
whereby I could
> post this on both blogs rather than going through the
steps to copy,
> past and publish it on my other blog as well.
> 
> Roller itself encourages people to author more than one
blog on the
> Main Menu page:
> 
> "Feel like you've got more to say? Maybe another
weblog is what you need."
> 
> Okay so I have two blogs -- one for my crafty (and
personal) endeavors
> and one for our son that Hen also contributes to. Back
to the knitting
> world (and the Mommy Blog world does this too, but I
won't go there),
> this is incredibly common. Lots of folks have one blog
for whatever
> their passion (and community) is, and one for personal
stuff. And
> sometimes even a third expressly for their kids.
> 
> The problem is my two blogs are starting to overlap,
especially as
> Nathan gets old enough for craft stuff. So more and
more often I'm
> contemplating where to post something when it really
goes on both.
> 
> Again with the knitting blogs, you see the sentence
"cross-posted at
> my whatever blog" quite a lot. Especially with the
knitalongs --
> people want a record not only at the knitalong blog,
but also at their
> personal blog. You see the same post both places.
Wouldn't it be nice
> and easy to be able to just post both at the same
time?
> 
> I haven't seen this feature anywhere, but I think it's
a great idea.
> And maybe it would be a good thing to have some unique
features.

The problem with this feature is that it's a bit messy when
it comes to 
information architecture and you are probably better off
updating your 
blog organization rather than trying to cross post things
all over the 
place.  So instead of having 2 (or more) blogs and cross
posting the 
overlapping entries, why not have 1 blog and use filters to
provide the 
equivalent of the multiple blogs you used to have?

For example, why can't you just have a single blog but use
categories or 
tags to allow people to see entries from specific topics? 
And 
alternatively, as a few folks have suggested, you could
still have 
multiple blogs but use the aggregation tool to merge the
content between 
them together when appropriate.

-- Allen


> 
> Carrie Yandell
> 
> On 3/8/07, James M Snell <jasnellgmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dave wrote:
>> > [snip]
>> > I consider that a bug. The standard front-page
theme should support
>> > pinned-to-main, which is a Global-Admin only
way to pin a blog entry
>> > to the front-page of a Roller site.
>> >
>> > I think adding a "pinned" option for
make good sense.
>> >
>>
>> As a general FYI, I'm taking a slightly different
tact with pinned
>> entries  "Pinned to main" entries in our
updated internal blogs will
>> show up as popup notices on the front page separate
from the other
>> entries.  They will be used to inform users of
planned outages, etc and
>> will be listed separately from the other entries. 
Among our user base
>> of several thousand bloggers, I haven't heard of
any one clammering for
>> the ability to pin posts to the tops of their own
blog pages.
>>
>> >
>> >> *2* Shareable posts. The ability for a
user to post to more than one
>> >> blog at a time. Rather than copying them,
I think what we'd do is have
>> >> the blog entry be authored for one blog,
but then have the ability for
>> >> the author (or another author on that
blog) to share them with other
>> >> blogs. I'm unsure whether the permissions
should be:
>> >>
>> >> i) An author can share to any blog that
they have write permissions 
>> to.
>> >> ii) An author can share to any blog that
is set up as able to share to
>> >> in the blog's permissions (regardless of
permissions).
>> >> iii) Both of the above; ie) configure the
blogs you can share to AND
>> >> need perms.
>> >
>> > Sounds kind of complicated. You'd do that via
many-to-many
>> > relationship between weblogs and entries? 
Can't we solve that problem
>> > with aggregation instead?
>> >
>>
>> Sounds really complicated to me and not really all
that useful.  Planet
>> aggregation seems like a much better / more elegant
approach.
>>
>> - James
>>