Hi all,
Here are the meeting results
Meeting brief list
CORE
- Rework map system
* TMX or own format
* Copyright
* Split tilesets in individual tiles
* Preprocessor
- Speed up creatures logic
- Improve AI
* Simple
* Fast
* Roaming
* Several profiles: aggressive, defensive and coward.
* Raids creature
* FSM for AI
- Improve A* pathfinding
- Improve Items hierarchy
* Attributes
- Better GUI
* Support for actions correctly
* Support for Chat channels
* Minimap to navigate
* Windows outside of game area
* /where command is hard to visualize
- Improve client
* Check again OpenGL
* Reduce memory usage
- Fix position system
* Global positions
* Different speeds
* Better zone deployment
* Automatic zone split
* Seamless zone changes
- Refactor equipment code
- Remove Python support
PLAYERS AND RP
- Creatures changes zone
* NPC Guards to protect cities
* Limit area of patrolling
* Return to their positions if idling
- Raids
* Capture the flag
* Conquer the hill
* Defend the base
* Notify offline players
- GM upload scripts
- GM can shutdown server using a Groovy script
- Magic
* Client GFX effects
- Attributes
* Decrease DEF when fighting against several
* Dodge
* Skills for weapons
- Economy
* Wood
* Iron
- New maps and quests
EXTRAS
- Personalize outfit
- Add extra things to outfit ( flags, emoticons, ... )
- Player propierties
* Houses
* Animals
* Riding animal
* Servants
- Website
* Refactor
* Website for Stendhal game
RELEASES
- Quarantine for new features
- Fixed dates and 2 day features freeze
IRC Meeting logs
[18:06] <mblanch> -- [MEETING STARTS: 18:06] --
[18:07] <mort_> mblanch: my next priority is the
creation of some
economy/resource stuff
[18:07] <mort_> wood, iron ore etc.
[18:07] <Athanas> Ok. A "feature" request:
to make possible to delete a
character from database
[18:07] <mblanch> Ok, as I explained in the email the
proposal of the
meeting is to have a complete idea of where we go
[18:08] <mblanch> The idea is to reach 0.60 in 3-4
months
[18:08] <Athanas> Ok do the meeting. BRB
[18:08] <mort_> mblanch: after that, i might try again
to add more
sheep-like animals
[18:08] <mblanch> mort_: ok
[18:08] * Athanas is now known as Athanas_BBL
[18:09] <mblanch> We need to think about tasks ( as
economy, or animals )
that are good for the players
[18:09] <mblanch> and improve the project itself
[18:09] <mort_> mblanch: dine will probably create
more underground maps,
and i'll write quests
[18:09] <mort_> for them
[18:09] <broli-wrk> i think that cleaning a bit the
source of the client is
a need
[18:09] <mort_> yes
[18:09] <mblanch> broli: yes, I agree
[18:09] <broli-wrk> im wanting to do it
[18:10] <mort_> i think the windowing system needs
much refactoring
[18:10] <broli-wrk> but im going to need time to read
and understand it
[18:10] <mblanch> mort_: that's the point
[18:10] <mblanch> Refactoring client is perhaps a
waste of time
[18:10] <mblanch> Things can be done in a better way
from scratch
[18:10] <mort_> yes, maybe
[18:11] <mblanch> May we split things in 3 types?
[18:11] <broli-wrk> sou, you are sayin its better to
rebuil it ?
[18:11] <mblanch> 1) Important tasks for the project (
CORE )
[18:11] <mblanch> 2) Tasks that adds value to the game
( PLAYERS and RP )
[18:11] <Oslsachem> I think that if reworking map
system is needed that
should be done as soon as possible because the more it is
delayed the more
work will be required to adapt the old maps
[18:11] <mblanch> 3) Nice features that make the
project different ( EXTRAS
)
[18:12] <mblanch> Oslsachem: ok, that's CORE
[18:12] <mblanch> Is is ok the 3 cathegories?=
[18:12] <lenocas> and music' do you want it? even if
it´s classic music?
[18:13] <broli-wrk> that will go in 2
[18:13] <mort_> mblanch: i'll probably stick with 2)
[18:13] <mort_> and maybe help with client windowing
system rewrite
[18:13] <mblanch> If it is ok, we can start to say
tasks and sort them
[18:13] <danter> I belive they are ok
[18:14] <mblanch> ok
[18:14] <mort_> music would be 3), i think
[18:14] <mblanch> First important task is "Speed
up Creatures"
[18:14] <lenocas> and how long must it be? in minutes?
[18:14] <lenocas> music?
[18:14] <mblanch> We have reached a real limit in the
number of creatures
[18:15] <mblanch> We need to speed them up so that
server can accept any new
creatures on maps
[18:15] <mblanch> lenocas: I would say 3-4 minutes but
loopable
[18:15] <mblanch> IMHO Speed up creatures logic should
be a CORE task
[18:15] <lenocas> loopable? what´s that?
[18:15] <mblanch> Until we don't fix that it is not
possible to populate new
areas nor expand world size
[18:16] <mblanch> lenocas: start-end-start-end and you
dont notice
[18:16] <mort_> mblanch: on the other hand, we have to
improve AI
[18:16] <mort_> e.g. walk around other creatures
[18:16] <mort_> or stop attacking one player and
attack another instead
[18:16] <mblanch> mort_: Yes, it is my second
suggested CORE task
[18:17] * Athanas_BBL is now known as Athanas
[18:17] <mblanch> Improving AI and A* in particular is
very important so
game suppose a challenge
[18:17] <broli-wrk> im goin to home, but i will have
the log on my home
[18:17] * broli-wrk has quit IRC ("SaNVirC para KVirc
(http://sanvirc.sourcef
orge.net) (Linux Inside)")
[18:17] <mblanch> About AI how do you think it should
be?
[18:18] <mblanch> Scriptable?
[18:18] <mblanch> In blocks like SpeakerNPC FSM?
[18:18] <danter> probably roaming
[18:18] <mort_> i think monsters don't need too much
AI
[18:18] <mort_> maybe 3 categories: aggressive,
defensive, and cowardly
running away
[18:19] <mblanch> ok
[18:19] <hendrik> It should be possible to walk up to
a destination which
has the collision mark.
[18:19] <Oslsachem> I like FSM because I have read it
has already been used
for creatures AI in other games
[18:20] <mblanch> hendrik: you mean get as near as
possible?
[18:20] <mort_> i don't understand the FSM part in
SpeakerNPC so maybe i'm
not a good judge on this
[18:20] <danter> yeah, and other "special"
creatures that is more advanced
concerning raids and suchshould probably be the only ones
with advance AI
[18:21] <danter> I think hendrik and I is thinking
about the same sort of AI
monsters
[18:21] * streaker has joined #arianne
[18:21] <mort_> yes
[18:21] <streaker> hi
[18:21] <mort_> hi
[18:21] <hendrik> mblanch, sheep food bushes are not
marked in the collision
layer. After i added the mark the sheep was not able to walk
to the bush.
[18:21] <streaker> are you updating it again?
[18:21] <hendrik> streaker, tomorrow.
[18:21] <mblanch> hendrik: yes, I know
[18:22] <mort_> hendrik: maybe we should make sheep
food an item
[18:22] <streaker> sweetness
[18:22] <mblanch> streaker: server has a very big bug.
So I took it down for
an hours until we fix it
[18:22] <streaker> owch
[18:22] <mblanch> IMHO we should rework the hiearchy
of Items and so in
server
[18:23] <mblanch> Right now complex approachs happens
because of stupid
decisions
[18:23] <mblanch> Also we are missing right now logic
in items
[18:23] <streaker> haha who made the stupid decisions
[18:23] <danter> yeah, probably adopting the item idea
I talked about for a
few months ago is a good thing
[18:23] <mblanch> danter: I have the email marked 
[18:23] <danter> hehe, ok
[18:24] <mort_> mblanch: i guess changing the
hierarchy means DB reset?
[18:24] <mblanch> mort_: not necesarily
[18:24] <mort_> ok
[18:24] * streaker has quit IRC (Client Quit)
[18:24] <mblanch> mort_: I mean a corpse is not an
item
[18:24] <mblanch> mort_: but can be equipped
[18:24] <danter> probably just replacing all items
with other items is good
enought
[18:24] <mblanch> mort_: a chest is not an item and it
is very similar to a
corpse but can't be moved
[18:25] <mort_> right
[18:25] <mort_> we need an attribute 'can be moved'
for items
[18:25] <mblanch> I mean the source Java hierarchy is
not fine
[18:25] <mblanch> yeah
[18:25] <mort_> then plant growers could also be items
[18:25] <mort_> and we could have portable plant
growers, e.g. a tomato
plant in a pot
[18:26] <mort_> also, there should be items that the
client can't interact
with at all
[18:26] <mort_> e.g. blood and plant growers
[18:26] <mblanch> exactly... as you see it has lots of
advantages
[18:27] <mblanch> Ok, another important thing to
change now is the Map
system
[18:27] <mblanch> as Oslsachem said the later the
worst
[18:28] <mblanch> Actual system has many limitations
[18:28] <mblanch> We have a single tileset set and we
can't easily change it
[18:28] <mort_> will we stick with tiled?
[18:28] <mblanch> Each zone has to match neighbours
zone limits ( and need
to be done by hand )
[18:28] <mort_> or fork it?
[18:29] <mblanch> mort_: IMHO yes, we should
[18:29] <mort_> should what?
[18:29] <mblanch> mort_: we already forked it, we have
our own version of
tiled
[18:29] <mort_> oh, ok
[18:29] <mblanch> mort_: but we should keep pushing to
get the features
needed
[18:29] <danter> matthias is still working on it...
dunno how far he has
gone thou
[18:29] <mblanch> mort_: and make Stendhal use TMX
files instead
[18:30] <mblanch> So IMHO we should move to TMX files
and each TMX will
contain just the tiles it needs
[18:30] <danter> hmm, but our tmx files will be
different from the original
[18:30] <mblanch> We can provide a base set of tiles
as we are doing now and
allow designers to add new tiles
[18:30] <danter> keeping the same extension will
produce confusion
[18:31] <mort_> mblanch: a propos tiles
[18:31] <mort_> we should really care more about
copyright
[18:31] <mort_> and author credit
[18:31] <mblanch> danter: Not until we use our own
tiled
[18:31] <mblanch> mort_: right
[18:31] <mort_> i started
http://arianne.sourceforge.net/wi
ki/index.php?title=Stendhal:Graphics_copyright
[18:31] <mort_> but nobody else participated
[18:32] <mblanch> mort_: I got most of the GFX
[18:33] <mblanch> mort_: I will pass you some URLS
from where I ripped stuff
[18:33] <mort_> ok
[18:33] <mort_> we need to send e-mails and ask for
permission for GPL use
[18:33] <mblanch> mort_: but most of it is free for
free use ( or even
public domain )
[18:33] <danter> I think I need to work on that page a
little aswell... as I
have done some of the content aswell
[18:34] <mort_> because someday we'll have to redraw
all that zelda stuff
[18:34] <mblanch> So do you think it is good to allow
designers to be able
to use new tilesets at their will?
[18:34] <Athanas> Sorry on disturbing you in your
meeting(I wont join it, I
must go soon) mblanch, but what you think? It depends on
your decition:
should I destroy mortal Athana or not? If yes then just
delete(NOT ALTER)him
from player database if it's possible when have the time to
do it. But if
you want Athana to live, then I will respect it. And Athana
will stay alive
[18:34] <mort_> and we should at least make sure we
don't repaint stuff that
we have permission for
[18:34] <mblanch> or should we keep with the actual
system?
[18:34] <mblanch> Athanas: I think that it doesn't
need to be deleted
[18:34] <mblanch> mort_: ok
[18:35] <mort_> mblanch: i think a central tile
graphics repository is good
[18:35] <mort_> makes map editing easier
[18:36] <mblanch> mort_: but limited
[18:36] <Oslsachem> What I would like to know is: Is
it faster loading tiles
together from a tileset instead of loading them individually
even when you
are not going to use all of the tiles of a tileset?
[18:36] <mort_> i think it's enough to make sure the
repository is easily
extendable
[18:37] * hendrik_ has joined #arianne
[18:37] <mort_> Oslsachem: the server could store a
tile PNG file for each
map
[18:37] <mort_> which stores exactly the tiles
required for that map
[18:37] <mort_> (in theory)
[18:38] <mblanch> Oslsachem: you can't load only the
needed tiles
[18:38] <Athanas> mblanch:ok Athana will stay alive.
End of story. Peace.
Thank you. Do you meeting my friends. I must go now. I will
let IRC open to
read the meeting chat log later. Bye  ))
[18:38] <mblanch> Oslsachem: you need to load the
entire tileset ( and
that's the problem of the actual client)
[18:38] <mblanch> And that's the cause because we
can't add new tilesets
[18:39] <danter> I don't think that creating a
tileset for each map is the
best sollution thou
[18:39] <danter> wolsnt it be better to create
individual images for
individual tiles?
[18:40] <danter> woldnt*
[18:40] <mblanch> danter: perhaps...
[18:40] <danter> or would that make the loading too
slow?
[18:40] <mblanch> danter: but it would be a lot of
images
[18:40] <Oslsachem> but what I want to know is why
keeping tiles grouped in
tilesets?
[18:40] <danter> yeah, but sorted correctly in
folders, we would have them
easerly accessible
[18:40] <mblanch> Oslsachem: It is the way tiled works
[18:41] * Athanas is now known as Athanas_AFK
[18:41] <Oslsachem> maybe tiles could be grouped in
file folders instead of
tileset images
[18:41] <danter> graound tiles, mountain tiles,
building tiles, etc etc
[18:41] * mblanch writes down the suggestion to give it a
try
[18:42] <mort_> but when transferring from server to
client, we should
rather send one big file instead of many small ones
[18:42] <mblanch> .jar file
[18:42] <mort_> because of transmission overhead and
compression
[18:42] <mblanch> that's no problem
[18:42] <Oslsachem> ok danter, I was thinking the same
:P
[18:42] <danter> it would break the compatibilety with
old tiled thou
[18:42] <mort_> mblanch: you can compress PNGs better
when you put more
tiles in one file
[18:42] <mblanch> danter: I think it won't break
[18:42] <hendrik_> It is quite easy now, to draw a
tree, because all tiles
are organized in the tileset.
[18:42] <mort_> because you'll have compression gains
from similar tiles
[18:42] <Oslsachem> well, the sooner the less painful
[18:43] <hendrik_> we lose this 2D ordering in a
folder.
[18:43] <danter> hmm.. the tmx stores the tile ids
anyway... true
[18:43] <mblanch> hendrik: we can have small tilesets
[18:44] <mblanch> hendrik: as an image
[18:45] <mblanch> Is map editing ok?
[18:45] <Oslsachem> Maybe the editor should be object
oriented. Being able
to define a tree object with associated tiles and layers
assigned to those
tiles. But that sounds like scifi
[18:45] <mblanch> or is there anything else to add?
[18:46] <mblanch> Oslsachem: it is not the editor, we
can do an app to do
that
[18:46] <mblanch> Oslsachem: I considered it for doing
mountains...
[18:47] <mblanch> ok, next core task is Client as a
whole
[18:47] <mblanch> and there are tons of areas here
[18:47] <mblanch> 1) GUI
[18:47] <mblanch> 2) Memory usage
[18:47] <mblanch> 3) CPU usage
[18:48] <mblanch> 4) Appearance
[18:48] <mblanch> Client is what shows our work but
unfortunatelly it is not
very well done nor visually nor technically
[18:48] <danter> wait a sec... your going to test the
folder and single
tiles idea for the map format?
[18:48] <mblanch> danter: yes, I will try ( not now )
[18:49] <danter> yes I know you wont right now... but
I think you went on a
little bit too fast... heh
[18:50] * mblanch slows down
[18:50] <danter> there was some talk after that, but I
wasnt sure you would
make that try or not
[18:51] <mblanch> I think it needs to be tried
[18:51] <mblanch> actual way is really limiting
[18:51] <danter> something about small images... but
woldnt that be like
tiles anyway?
[18:51] <danter> tilesets*
[18:51] <mblanch> danter: yes
[18:51] <Oslsachem> it would solve the problem to add
new tiles and load
only those necessary for a map
[18:51] <rasgele_net> server down?
[18:51] <mblanch> rasgele_net: yes, a big bug on
server
[18:52] <rasgele_net> ok
[18:52] <mblanch> rasgele_net: I will try to fix it in
1-2 hours
[18:52] <rasgele_net> ok take it easy
[18:52] <mblanch> Back to client?
[18:52] <danter> umm, just what do you mean by those
small images?
[18:53] <mblanch> For example
[18:53] <mblanch> Tree is not a single tile but 4x5
[18:53] <danter> do you mean single tiles in one
tileset or a smaller images
with seweral tiles?
[18:53] <mblanch> That would be a small tileset
[18:53] <danter> ahh, ok so a single tileset for
"objects" and not mashed
togheter in one big tileset?
[18:53] <mblanch> yes
[18:53] <danter> that could work yes
[18:54] <mblanch> I think that is the most promising
path
[18:54] <danter> yeah, probably
[18:54] <danter> better then splitting all tiles into
individual files
[18:54] <danter> well, then I got that clear... now go
on with client ;)
[18:54] <mblanch> ok, back to client
[18:54] <mblanch> Right now GUI is home-made using
some widgets Matthias did
[18:55] <mblanch> GUI is limiting both what players
can do and what players
thinks stendhal is
[18:55] <mblanch> A project with a very nice GUI is
slothrpg
[18:55] <mblanch> As it is open source we could learn
from them about how to
do it
[18:56] <mblanch> Also GUI is limiting development
[18:56] <mblanch> For example split, trade, NPC chat,
...
[18:56] <mblanch> Use with command needs GUI changes
too.
[18:56] <mblanch> So in my opinion new GUI is a MUST
for 0.60
[18:58] <chucklee> messaging could be better
[18:58] <mblanch> chucklee: in which way?
[18:58] <chucklee> say from buddy list to pick who to
talk to
[18:59] <danter> there was talk about using more then
one chatt window
right?
[19:00] <danter> just like channels or something
[19:00] <mblanch> danter: yes
[19:00] <mblanch> Would that be a CORE task, PLAYERS
or EXTRA?
[19:00] <danter> I belive alot of games uses an IRC
interface behind the
scene actually
[19:00] <chucklee> its hard talking to several players
because if u spell
the name incorrect no n\message
[19:00] <danter> would that be an idea to adopt for
stendhal?
[19:00] * mort__ has joined #arianne
[19:01] <mblanch> IMO it is a nice idea
[19:01] <mblanch> I have suffered the problem too
chucklee
[19:01] <chucklee> i talk to many people a lot
[19:01] <mort__> CPU freezed :( what's the topic now?
[19:01] <chucklee> and i type the same message a lot
[19:01] <mort__> ah
[19:01] <danter> mort__ what was the last you saw?
[19:01] <mblanch> So CORE?
[19:03] <danter> mort__ --> query
[19:03] <mort__> danter: not necessary, thanks
[19:03] <danter> ok nvm then
[19:03] <mblanch> mort_: talking about client GUI and
chat interface right
now
[19:04] <danter> mblanch: well, if we are to adopt an
irc client behind the
scenes, then indeed it would be core
[19:04] <mblanch> ok, I write it down
[19:04] <mblanch> Any more ideas for GUI?
[19:05] <mort__> clickable minimap
[19:05] <mort__> to navigate
[19:05] <danter> well, we are doing a complete rewrite
of GUI right?
[19:05] <mort__> other players shown in minimap
[19:05] <chucklee> yes the coordinates are hard to
understand
[19:06] <danter> I think we probably should place most
of the windows
outside the play area aswell
[19:06] <danter> like we have with the chat window
[19:06] <hendrik_> the boxes (bag, minimap, buddies,
...) should be
transparent. I tent to walk against the sign in Semos
Village for example
because it is behind the buddy list.
[19:06] <mblanch> hendrik: outside of the window fix
the problem, isn't it?
[19:07] <hendrik_> mblanch, yes, i was to slow.
[19:07] <mort__> transparency sucks
[19:07] <mblanch> ok
[19:07] <mblanch> chucklee: what do you mean that
coordinates are hard to
understand?
[19:07] <mort__> all important windows should be
docked to the screen
borders
[19:08] <chucklee> if u ask where a person is it is
hard to visualize 112,76
[19:08] <mblanch> chucklee: how would you do it?
[19:08] <Oslsachem> a compass
[19:08] <chucklee> like mort said maybe have them
flash on the map if they
are on the same screen
[19:08] <Oslsachem> aiming at the person
[19:09] <danter> we should probably have groups for
that thou
[19:09] <danter> ie you form a real party groupe
[19:10] <chucklee> like the buddy list?
[19:10] <danter> because when pvp gets usable, pvp
players probably wonts to
hide there appearance
[19:10] <danter> that would be imposiible, if you have
a compass that shows
exactly where that known player is
[19:10] <danter> known pvp player*
[19:11] <danter> chucklee: no,not like the buddy list
[19:11] <chucklee> if u dont want to be found make
invisible type command
[19:11] <mblanch> ok, I write this down
[19:12] <danter> well, this is defently core... but
mblanch that
invisibilety we have talked about a fewtimes
[19:12] <chucklee> immune to where
[19:12] <mblanch> danter: ...
[19:12] <mblanch>
[19:12] <mblanch> ok
[19:13] <mblanch> So is correct this?
[19:13] <mblanch> - Better GUI
[19:13] <mblanch> * Support for actions correctly
[19:13] <mblanch> * Support for Chat channels
[19:13] <mblanch> * Minimap to navigate
[19:13] <mblanch> * Windows outside of game area
[19:13] <mblanch> * /where command is hard to
visualize
[19:13] <Oslsachem> the problem with compass is that
it needs absolute
coordinates
[19:13] <mblanch> Oslsachem: Absolute coordinates
comes already in 2-3 items
[19:14] <danter> it's not a hard convertion to do...
it's already used in
the faceing in combat and NPC talks I belive
[19:15] <chucklee> the compass could be for if u dont
want someone to know
exactly where u are and the player being tracked by compass
could be
notified who is tracking them
[19:15] * nibblesmx has joined #arianne
[19:15] * mort_ has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection
timed out))
[19:15] <mblanch> nibblesmx: me dejas de nuevo la URL
de tu bestiario?
[19:15] <nibblesmx> a claro
[19:15] <danter> the compass could probably be inbued
with some spell later
;)
[19:15] <chucklee> nice bestiary he made
[19:16] <nibblesmx> http://20
1.135.12.160/stendhal/bestiary.php
[19:16] <chucklee> yes to throw them off
[19:16] <Oslsachem> hehe that would be fun danter, a
PC wandering aimlessly
[19:16] <danter> especially when we have true
invisibilety (or imunity to
where)
[19:17] <mblanch> nibblesmx: Great!
[19:17] <chucklee> its very well put together
[19:17] <mblanch> nibblesmx: I will upload the HTML to
Wiki to replace our
bestiary
[19:17] <chucklee> i seen it yesterday
[19:17] <nibblesmx> necesitas las imagenes tambien?
[19:18] <mblanch> nibblesmx: ya las bajo del web
[19:18] <nibblesmx> bueno
[19:18] <danter> umm, back to that meeting now...? I
really have a hard time
understanding that spanish.... ;)
[19:18] <mblanch>
[19:18] <mblanch> ok
[19:18] <nibblesmx> sorry man
[19:18] <mblanch> GUI is agree, ok?
[19:19] <danter> explain what you have planned for the
each line you have
planned there
[19:20] <danter> actions, is that move, interact,
split items... what more
[19:20] <danter> ?
[19:20] <mblanch> yes, I just plan that they work
[19:20] <mblanch> chat channels as chucklee said
[19:20] <chucklee> yes splitting is important
[19:20] <mblanch> minimaps to navigate as mort told
[19:20] <mblanch> windows outside of game area as you
requested
[19:21] <mblanch> and the /where command to provide
info in another way
[19:21] <nibblesmx> the server is down, right?
[19:21] <mblanch> nibblesmx: yes, an ugly bug happened
:(
[19:21] <mblanch> nibblesmx: I will fix it in 1-2
hours
[19:21] <nibblesmx> oh, thats too bad
[19:21] <mblanch> So back to meeting
[19:21] * _dh has joined #arianne
[19:21] <mblanch> We need to improve client memory and
cpu usage
[19:22] <mblanch> OpenGL rendering thing is abandoned
( I never read again
from the guy )
[19:22] <mblanch> Memory should improve as soon as we
do the map system
change
[19:22] <danter> ok, I still think that we should
check it out
[19:22] <danter> ourself
[19:22] <mblanch> check what?
[19:22] <danter> OGL
[19:22] <danter> having some acceleration to the game
will indeed speed up
things
[19:23] <mblanch> I am not able to write any opengl
thing :(
[19:23] <mblanch> but I write it down
[19:23] <danter> ok
[19:24] <mblanch> ok, all that CORE, isn't it?
[19:24] <mort__> yes, i think so
[19:24] <danter> yeah
[19:24] <mblanch> me too
[19:24] <Oslsachem> the memory usage is related to the
loading of tilesets?
[19:24] <mblanch> Yes, 100%
[19:24] <Oslsachem> and CPU usage?
[19:24] <mblanch> Rendering
[19:25] <mblanch> As I have said client was a simple
and fast hack to test a
stupid old game called stendhal
[19:25] <danter> if we do a rewrite of the client, I
belive we should leave
it as open as possible of replacing the drawcode
[19:25] <mblanch> ok
[19:26] <mblanch> Next tasks are a bit related to AI
[19:26] <mblanch> 1) NPC crosses zones
[19:26] <mblanch> It is already exploted by most
players...
[19:26] <mblanch> Creatures don't change map
[19:26] <mblanch> and that is IMHO a bad thing
[19:27] <mblanch> We need that they cross zones (
mainly to create raids )
[19:27] <chucklee> they need limits tho
[19:27] <chucklee> to where they can go
[19:27] <mort__> on the other hand, you cannot kidnap
monsters and hide them
somewhere
[19:27] <nibblesmx> happy fathers day
[19:27] <nibblesmx> 
[19:27] <mblanch> chucklee: what kind of limit?
[19:28] <chucklee> like mort said people will draw
monsters all over the map
[19:28] <danter> if they can cross zones... woldnt it
be possible to make
the passing of map borders more "transparent"
aswell?
[19:28] <chucklee> the city will have monsters?
[19:28] <chucklee> liches in the forrests?
[19:28] <mblanch> yes, if someone lure it there...
[19:29] <Oslsachem> but every RPzone being independent
is a feature... How
can you solve that?
[19:29] <mblanch> Absolute coordinates
[19:29] <mblanch> It is not a fix... it is a
workaround
[19:29] <chucklee> the little guys will get smashed
[19:29] <danter> the city needs guards if we make the
monsters change zones
[19:29] <mblanch> If you place limits archers can do
strange things to get
advantages
[19:30] <chucklee> mayber they turn around and go back
at limit
[19:30] <mblanch> and you shoot it with you bow...
[19:30] <chucklee> if limit is end of map?
[19:30] <mblanch> and when it leave you enter again
and repeat...
[19:31] <mblanch> end of map concept will
"dissappear".
[19:31] * _dh has quit IRC
[19:31] <chucklee> no reloading
[19:31] <nibblesmx> so, stenhal will be one gigantic
map?
[19:31] <danter> more or less yes
[19:31] <mblanch> Yes, that the idea
[19:31] <mblanch> We are far from it
[19:31] <mblanch> but it is the goal
[19:32] <chucklee> maybe they cant leave buildings
dungeons ets
[19:32] <chucklee> that limit
[19:32] <nibblesmx> you could define an
"area" for every monster with
absolute coordinates, i think...
[19:32] <chucklee> so lichs arent in forrest
[19:32] <mblanch> ok
[19:32] <mort__> maybe a no-cross layer for monsters?
[19:33] <Oslsachem> mblanch how do you apply absolute
coordinates to int_
zones?
[19:33] <mort__> so you can specify things like
'monsters can't climb up
ladders'
[19:33] <mblanch> I make this a PLAYERS and RP task,
no core, ok?
[19:33] <nibblesmx> what is RP?
[19:33] <mblanch> Roleplay
[19:33] <nibblesmx> oh
[19:33] <mblanch> Oslsachem: int zones has absolute
coordinates on their own
[19:33] <danter> mblanch: if the monsters can pass
borders thou, we need
guards in town
[19:34] <mblanch> Oslsachem: in fact it is the way
they are done right now
[19:34] <mblanch> danter: I have written it down
[19:34] <danter> ok
[19:34] <Oslsachem> then monsters can't enter
buildings/dungeons?
[19:35] <mblanch> Oslsachem: No IMHO
[19:35] <mblanch> This way we avoid problem exposed
about lich walking
around in forest
[19:35] <chucklee> or leave if they r in them
[19:35] <Oslsachem> then players will get advantage of
empty buildings
[19:36] <chucklee> elf city?
[19:36] <Oslsachem> for example
[19:36] <chucklee> put elfs in them
[19:36] <mblanch> Yeah, I were thinking about it...
but didn't want to
increase creature count
[19:37] <mblanch> ok, next task very related to this
one is Position system
[19:37] <Oslsachem> maybe lich could teleport, kill
the lurer and teleport
back
[19:37] <mblanch> We need to fix it to get:
[19:37] <mblanch> 1) Global positions
[19:37] <mblanch> 2) Different speeds
[19:37] <mblanch> 3) Better zones deployment
[19:38] <mblanch> I think this deserve to be a core
task as it will change
how players play stendhal right now
[19:39] <Oslsachem> maybe big monsters should get back
to their lairs when
they have killed the PC or lost her track
[19:39] <chucklee> what if they sign off??
[19:40] <chucklee> now there is a lich walking back in
the forrest
[19:40] <mort__> mblanch: maybe reset monsters to
their home after idling 10
minutes or so
[19:41] <mort__> or make them walk home
[19:41] <mblanch> mort__: ok, I write it down
[19:43] <mblanch> What do you think about removing
python support?
[19:43] <mblanch> We are using Groovy now.
[19:43] <mort__> we need to refactor the equipment
code a little bit
[19:43] <Oslsachem> what is it used for right now?
[19:43] <mort__> there's code duplication everywhere,
and the existing code
is quite buggy
[19:43] <mort__> i'm working on it..
[19:43] <mblanch> Oslsachem: Nowhere
[19:44] <hendrik_> the python script is broken now.
[19:44] <mblanch> mort__: right
[19:44] <mblanch> so ok to remove it?
[19:44] <hendrik_> Yes
[19:44] <mort__> yes
[19:44] <mblanch> Oslsachem: ok?
[19:44] <Oslsachem> you'll have to remove the icon
from the web page though
;P
[19:45] <Oslsachem> yes, I would have to learn it
first to be bothered
[19:45] <mblanch> mapacman uses Python
[19:45] <mblanch> ok
[19:45] <mblanch> I remove it later
[19:45] <mblanch> ok, and with that I enter in my list
of players' tasks
[19:45] <mblanch> Raids
[19:45] <mblanch> We need raids
[19:46] <mblanch> Something like Deathmatch is perfect
for raids
[19:46] <chucklee> yes
[19:46] <chucklee> deathmatch is great
[19:46] <hendrik_> Are GM's trusted in a way they can
be allowed to upload
and execute groovy scripts.
[19:46] <hendrik_> ?
[19:46] <nibblesmx> yes, it rules
[19:46] <mblanch> And later when Creatures cross
RPZones we can do real
raids
[19:46] <mblanch> hendrik: not so trusted
[19:47] <mblanch> hendrik: it is not possible to
upload to murpe.com
[19:47] <mblanch> I mean anonymous upload
[19:47] <hendrik_> mblanch, we can program an admin
command for that.
[19:48] <hendrik_> Deathmatch is very cool right now.
But i think more
advanced raids are needed in the future.
[19:48] <mblanch> hendrik_: yes
[19:48] <mblanch> Games: Capture the flag and Conquer
the hill
[19:48] <chucklee> yes and ways to inform offline
players of schedule
[19:48] <danter> heh, speaking of deathmatch... I
think the monsters need to
be change to specific DM monsters
[19:48] <mblanch> danter: yes, I reported to SF it
[19:48] <hendrik_> mblanch, the problem is there is no
code review like in
CVS before it gets executed. And groovy.scripts can cause
harm outside the
game.
[19:49] <mblanch> hendrik: yes, I know :(
[19:49] <danter> the monsters both give normal xp and
drop items in DM now
[19:49] <mblanch> hendrik: that is why I don't think
upload would be a good
idea
[19:50] <hendrik_> btw. could you start the server in
a loop so that gm can
execute a groovy-script (like System.exit) to restart it on
trouble.
[19:50] <mblanch> hendrik: on my windows server it was
in that way
[19:52] <hendrik_> while sleep 60; do java -jar
marauroa.jar -c marauroa.ini
-l; done
[19:53] <mblanch> ok, written down
[19:54] <mblanch> Advanced raids too
[19:55] <mblanch> Capture the flag
[19:55] <mblanch> Conquer the hill
[19:55] <mblanch> They could be related with mort's
concept of economy
[19:55] <chucklee> message for players not online?
[19:55] <danter> defend the base should be made aswell
;)
[19:55] <mblanch> so you control the mines, forest, or
whatever and need to
defend them
[19:55] <hendrik_> chucklee, i will have a look at
that.
[19:55] <danter> yeah
[19:56] <danter> from a huge monster raid
[19:56] <mblanch> also it really match the history we
have designed for
world
[19:56] <danter> yepp
[19:57] <mblanch> Anything else?
[19:57] <danter> not that I can think of now
[19:57] <mblanch> ok, so next thing is Magic
[19:57] <mblanch> Jo added scrolls
[19:57] <mblanch> We could add spells to game
[19:57] <danter> yeah, I havnt tested them yet thou...
heh
[19:57] <mblanch> and introduce a new MP attribute for
magic power
[19:58] <danter> ow right, speaking of attributes
[19:58] <mblanch> Problem of magic is that client must
take care of all the
effects
[19:58] <chucklee> ooo
[19:59] <danter> there should be some form of dodge
attribute
[19:59] <mblanch> what dodge is?
[19:59] <Oslsachem> avoid
[19:59] <danter> avoid a blow
[19:59] <mblanch> ok
[19:59] <danter> or atleast some way of the
"def" parameter to decrease when
you get attacked by seweral monsters
[19:59] <mblanch> CORE, EXTRA or PLAYERS?
[20:00] <danter> well, it's rp stuff
[20:00] <mblanch> I mean priority
[20:00] <danter> players
[20:00] <danter> or rp
[20:00] <mblanch> 2nd level so
[20:00] <danter> both magic and dodge probably belongs
to that
[20:01] * _dh has joined #arianne
[20:01] <mblanch> Ok, one last two tasks missing are:
[20:01] <mblanch> Player propierties and animals ( or
servants )
[20:02] <mblanch> They are a nice feature buy REALLY
complex to achieve
right now
[20:02] <mblanch> I would place them at extra
[20:02] <mblanch> And the new RP system
[20:02] <mblanch> that add at least classes and a more
balanced system
[20:03] <mort__> i will implement animals
[20:03] <mort__> when someone helps me with the DB
side
[20:03] <mort__> RPEntity representation etc.
[20:03] <mort__> and conversion of existing sheep
[20:03] <mort__> (or killing)
[20:04] <Oslsachem> what is a player property?
building a house?
[20:04] <mort__> also, we will have to decide: will we
only have domestic
animals that run after you?
[20:04] <mort__> there could be more, e.g. riding
animals
[20:04] <mblanch> riding animals can be done as soon
as position system is
done
[20:05] <mblanch> problem again is client and GFX
[20:05] <mblanch> Oslsachem: yes, a house
[20:05] <mort__> ok, so let's create a domestic
animal hierarchy
[20:05] <mblanch> that's my ideas for next 6-12
months
[20:05] <mort__> with one branch 'following_animal'
[20:05] <mort__> where we'll put sheep and other
animals i'll add
[20:05] <mort__> then later we can add a branch
'riding _animal'
[20:05] <mblanch> If there is anything missing that
you want to add?
[20:06] <danter> probably calling it transport_animals
[20:06] <mblanch> ok
[20:06] <chucklee> skills for weapons?
[20:06] <Oslsachem> then we will have compiled houses
and runtime houses ?
[20:06] <chucklee> use more get better
[20:06] <danter> I had plans on having transport items
like horse and wagon
;)
[20:06] <mblanch> Oslsachem: yes, perhaps
[20:06] <mblanch> Oslsachem: but not everyone will be
able to build a house
[20:07] <mblanch> Oslsachem: perhaps all the houses
are compiled ones...
[20:07] <mblanch> chucklee: ok
[20:07] <chucklee> have houses as rewards?
[20:07] <mort__> suggestion: houses need to be
renovated every few days
[20:08] <mort__> if you don't renovate it for some
days, it'll slowly break
down
[20:08] <mort__> to make room for new houses by other
players
[20:08] <mblanch> mort__: yes, my idea is that Raids
can attack houses too
[20:08] <mblanch> mort__: or even city walls
[20:08] <mort__> ok
[20:08] <mort__> to renovate, you need to buy
stones/wood/tools
[20:08] <mort__> (wood will soon be ready)
[20:09] <mort__> but i wonder how it will look like
client-side
[20:09] <mblanch> Also I wanted to focus your
attention in one thing
[20:09] <mblanch> We need to add features but making
sure we don't break
things
[20:09] <mblanch> 0.50 has proven to be very buggy
[20:11] <mort__> mblanch: the problem was that it was
hard to determine when
the release will be ready
[20:11] <Oslsachem> perhaps we wpuld need a test
server and beta testers to
quarantine new features
[20:11] <mort__> we should have fixed dates and a
2-day feature freeze or so
[20:13] <danter> mblanch's server can probably work
as a beta test server
from now on... atleast when he have time
[20:13] <mblanch> ok, written down
[20:14] <hendrik_> We could create a CVS branch for
each release to be able
to backport bugfixes of the server to the current version.
[20:14] <mblanch> danter: I will leave again in 7-10
days
[20:14] <danter> ok
[20:14] <Oslsachem> or simply test it individually in
local servers but with
that freeze time to test
[20:14] <mblanch> hendrik: the problem is that between
0.48 and 0.50 there
are indent changes and it is REALLY hard to get info about
the changes
[20:16] <hendrik_> mblanch, i though about something
else: We may be unable
to release a fixed version of the 0.50 server in a few days
because there
will be new features whitch require a new client.
[20:16] <mblanch> hendrik: for example?
[20:17] <hendrik_> new sprits
[20:17] <mblanch> hendrik: they will appear on client
as no GFX sprite
[20:17] <hendrik_> mblanch, that is ugly.
[20:17] <mblanch> I have been thinking about
reenabling 0.48 in server
[20:17] <mblanch> hendrik: bugs are ugly
[20:18] <mblanch> Anyway looks like we need an
emergency release as soon as
the most important bugs are fixed
[20:18] * wharever has joined #arianne
[20:19] <hendrik_> I think that it could be a
server-only release (if we get
that firewall opened).
[20:20] <hendrik_> (unless there are bugs in the
client, i haven't noticed)
[20:20] <mblanch> I think there are not client bugs
[20:20] <mblanch> Firewall won't be opened
[20:20] <mblanch> so the best is to release a fixed
client
[20:20] <hendrik_> :-/
[20:22] <mblanch> ok, anything else that should be
talked on the meeting?
[20:22] <hendrik_> When you are away, is there someone
else who has access
to the server?
[20:22] <mblanch> Steve and Matthias
[20:23] * hendrik_ has quit IRC ("... und
tschüß")
[20:24] * hendrik is still here.
[20:24] <Oslsachem> what about web refactoring?
[20:24] <mblanch> oh, true
[20:24] <Oslsachem> Does Stendhal need a web of its
own?
[20:25] <mblanch> CORE or EXTRA?
[20:25] <mort__> mblanch: so, when will there be the
next release?
[20:25] <mblanch> IMHO it needs one
[20:25] <mort__> 0.51
[20:25] <mblanch> mort__: as soon as bugs are fixed
[20:25] <mort__> can i add another quest?
[20:25] <mblanch> mort__: they are important bugs that
deserver a fix on
their own
[20:25] <mblanch> sure
[20:25] <Oslsachem> extra, I think the old one can
stand a bit more
[20:26] <Oslsachem> imho
[20:26] <mblanch> ok, written down
[20:26] * wharever has quit IRC ("Abandonando")
[20:27] <Oslsachem> I can't think of anythign else
[20:27] <mblanch> ok
[20:27] <mblanch> So do we finish the meeting?
[20:27] <Oslsachem> for me, yes
[20:28] <Oslsachem> anyone?
[20:29] <Oslsachem> I think we have enough material to
think about
[20:29] <Oslsachem>
[20:29] <mblanch> ok
[20:29] <mblanch> -- [MEETING ENDS: 20:30] --
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