Re: OT - Non AT&T landline - Further OT

We had this argument before so no need to start it again. 
IMO AT&T and
the NSA did something illegal not to mention ethically
questionable.
You are free to think otherwise.  

You are now going to post asking which law they broke and
not bother to
accept my comments about the constitution or laws against
U.S. spy
agencies spying on Americans which were passed in the 70s
when the CIA
was found to be doing this.  Or you'll come up with some
other hogwash
that will be as meaningless.   I'll let your next post be
the last
(albeit false) word on that.

None of that however will go to the original question I
asked which is
"is anyone using any of the other landline phone
service providers in
Bellsouth/AT&T territory and would they recommend
it".  

I'll assume however that the answer to my question is
"no" so I'll do
some web surfing instead.

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bouncesale.org [mailto:ale-bouncesale.org]
On Behalf Of Jim
Popovitch
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 11:44 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] OT - Non AT&T landline

On Tue, 2007-06-26 at 10:41 -0400, Jeff Lightner wrote:
> However, your point is a little off - it implies
AT&T is storing all
> bytes and providing that - which too my knowledge this
was never
> alleged.  

 Does
it matter to you who is storing the bytes?  If so, it may
be
some entity you've never heard of... and it may be happening
without
someone alleging it.

> What was alleged was that AT&T/SBC (and some other
ILECs) were
> providing all details of call records to the NSA.  
Most ILECs denied
> they were doing it and at least one got a retraction by
showing that
> they were asked to do it but refused.

I don't think that is 100% accurate.  You are stating a
media person's
opinion of what those companies stated.

>  AT&T on the other hand simply changed its policy
to say AT&T owns
> data about YOU and can give it to whoever they want
without your
> consent.  That is a fairly large outrage in my mind and
I'm surprised
> that more people aren't incensed by it.  

I see nothing wrong, nor reason for outrage, in AT&T
turning over
records of data that traverses *THEIR* network.  Stores you
shop in
routinely turn over their video tape to the police.  Heck,
right now in
Buckhead there are some 299 privately owned cameras that the
APD has
access to.  Everything from Bank security cameras, street
cams, parking
lot cams, and Mall cameras.   

I understand your frustration in feeling violated, I don't
understand
your expectation of 100% privacy when you interact in public
realms.

-Jim P.

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On Tue, 2007-06-26 at 13:08 -0400, Jeff Lightner wrote:
> We had this argument before so no need to start it
again.  IMO AT&T and
> the NSA did something illegal not to mention ethically
questionable.
> You are free to think otherwise.  

You are free to think as you want... but I'll defer to the
courts and
let their final judgment stand on it's own.  Far be it from
me to play
judge and jury.

> You are now going to post asking which law they broke
and not bother to
> accept my comments about the constitution or laws
against U.S. spy
> agencies spying on Americans which were passed in the
70s when the CIA
> was found to be doing this.  Or you'll come up with
some other hogwash
> that will be as meaningless.   I'll let your next post
be the last
> (albeit false) word on that.

You sure do assume a *lot* about others.  It's not really
spying if the
information is willingly provided to the NSA.  Understanding
the facts,
and not just the hyperbole, can lead to clearer perception.

> None of that however will go to the original question I
asked which is
> "is anyone using any of the other landline phone
service providers in
> Bellsouth/AT&T territory and would they recommend
it".
>
> I'll assume however that the answer to my question is
"no" so I'll do
> some web surfing instead.

Perhaps all that surfing is part of your perception
problem... you do
know that you can't believe *everything* you read/see on the
Interweb,
right? 

-Jim P.



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