Long: Trials & Tribulations with LFS CD & VMWare

Up front: I'm not looking for support, handholding, violin
music, or a 
shoulder to cry on - this is informational only. You have
been warned.



So I decided I'd try to build an automated LFS using jhalfs
and the Live CD 
(6.2-5). On Windows XP Pro. With VMWare 5.5. Without
networking (which I 
had to modify to "minimal networking.") I didn't
decide to fail, but I 
haven't put a ton of work into it yet, but so far no worky.
However, if 
anyone else is going to try this, he/she/they won't have to
repeat most of 
my errors.

These are random(ish) comments, queries, quibbles, etc.;
albeit in roughly 
chronological order.

1) Have lots of RAM available to VMWare. 512Meg main system
memory isn't 
enough, unless you want the build to slow to a crawl railing
swap all the 
time. With no swap & virtual system memory set to
160Meg, you will run out 
of memory during the automated build. 384Meg virtual system
memory seems to 
work fine.

2) Whilst trying to clean up system memory for VMWare, don't
turn off *any* 
of the networking services. VMWare doesn't like it, and
jhalfs won't build 
without working networking - I haven't figured out how to
make it *not* 
download at least the book; and sometimes it wants to
download the kernel 
sources, too.

3) I have yet to figure out how to integrate VMWare's
"Tools" disk for 
Linux with the LFS Live CD; so be prepared for missing
keystrokes (happens 
often at 110wpm), the occasional doubled keystroke, and key
repeat is 
pretty much non-functional 98% of the time.

[[ The ncurses build meter update thingy misses a lot of
characters, too - 
but that's a _very_ minor nitpick. ]]

4) I'm accusomed to making the build in /mnt/lfs and I'm
assuming the 
system ID to use for the build is jhalfs. With jhalfs
version 2.1 (on the 
disk) I've gotten to the point where it builds, but dies
at:

Making targer: 066-glibc
=-= with a =-=

  *** make [mk_CHROOT] Error 2   error.

So, I figured I'd download the latest jhalfs, but no love.
The build dies 
in the same spot. I've tried it with and without
optimization (which 
shouldn't matter; glibc should never compile optimized with
jhalfs, right?).

OK, I found the build logs. Maybe they weren't actually
lost, but it took 
me some time to find 'em.  All this
over "it didn't like my timezone." 
Ungh. Maybe tailing the last 5-10 log lines on the console
screen on a 
fatal error (in a perfect world) or at least a "Build
died. Go check 
/hey/idiot/go/here/to/find/the/066-glibc.log file."



[[ a more major nitpick: Where the heck in the book is 066-?
Does that mean 
Chapter 6, section 6? It's actually section 9, but from some
of the other 
numbers I'd seen scroll by, it doesn't seem like the
internal numbers match 
the book very well - for those who are doing the build in a
pure CLI 
instead of in a xterm, the lack of ability to scroll back to
see when a 
chapter or section starts where, numbers more mnemonic to
the actual 
chapters & sections could be helpful. ]]

So I'm gonna restart the build now that I've gotten the
corrective timezone 
in place, and I set the "Rebuild files" setting
thinking it would ignore my 
previous build & start fresh (per the help gizmo in the
makefile). No love, 
it says the "kernel fylesystem is still there." No
biggie, I'll go mke2fs 
again... well, I would if I could see what open files are
keeping me from 
unmounting it - lsof isn't part of the LiveCD environment...
so I'll 
reboot, then mke2fs & start from scratch & report
back with whatever 
happens...

[[ Again, remember this isn't a rant or anything! All just
for 
informational purposes... ]]

OK, so I'm doing wacko stuff on wacko hardware with wacko
software... I 
realize that.  I
haven't googled a ton yet, I barely skimmed the README; 
but I noticed the whole "It still doesn't work"
FAQ which says that jhalfs 
is intended to build the development LFS book(s)... does
anyone test this 
much with the CD, or is it primarily designed solely with
the InterWeb in mind?

Again, this is informational only... having fun getting back
into LFS again 
- the only "problem" with LFS as a hobby is once
you get it working, you 
don't need to build it again for at least a couple of
years... (I don't 
"need" to build this one - just wanted to remember
how!!!  If
someone 
has a well-paying job for me building this every week, I'm
all ears... 

Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger

--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg
Computers
zmerch30below.com

What do you do when Life gives you lemons,
and you don't *like* lemonade?????????????

-- 
http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/alfs-discu
ss
FAQ: http://www.linux
fromscratch.org/faq/
Unsubscribe: See the above information page

El Miércoles, 28 de Marzo de 2007 19:44, Roger Merchberger
escribió:
> Up front: I'm not looking for support, handholding,
violin music, or a
> shoulder to cry on - this is informational only. You
have been warned.
>
> 
>
> So I decided I'd try to build an automated LFS using
jhalfs and the Live CD
> (6.2-5). On Windows XP Pro. With VMWare 5.5. Without
networking (which I
> had to modify to "minimal networking.") 

You're a very brave man, that's a heavy build entorn 


> 2) Whilst trying to clean up system memory for VMWare,
don't turn off *any*
> of the networking services. VMWare doesn't like it, and
jhalfs won't build
> without working networking - I haven't figured out how
to make it *not*
> download at least the book; and sometimes it wants to
download the kernel
> sources, too.

To prevent download the book, select "Working
copy" in the "release" menu and 
put in "Loc of working copy" the full path to the
LFS book sources directory 
included in the CD-Live.

To prevent packages/patches download, copy manually all
needed packages and 
patches to $BUILDDIR/sources and don't select "Retrieve
source files" option.

> 4) I'm accusomed to making the build in /mnt/lfs 

You can. Just set "Build directory" option to 
/mnt/lfs.

> ; glibc should never compile optimized with jhalfs,
> right?).

Right.

> [[ a more major nitpick: Where the heck in the book is
066-? Does that mean
> Chapter 6, section 6? It's actually section 9, but from
some of the other
> numbers I'd seen scroll by, it doesn't seem like the
internal numbers match
> the book very well - for those who are doing the build
in a pure CLI
> instead of in a xterm, the lack of ability to scroll
back to see when a
> chapter or section starts where, numbers more mnemonic
to the actual
> chapters & sections could be helpful. ]]

The scripts numbers refers to the absolute position of that
section on the 
book flow. That is, 066-glibc meants that that Glibc build
instructions come 
from the section placed at the 66 position in the book.

To have the same numeration than in the online book involve
to add a lot of 
extra XSL code for little gain. Looking at
$BUILDDIR/jhalfs/lfs-commands you 
can see a subdirectory for each book chapter containing the
scripts in the 
same order than their respective pages are in the book TOC.

> So I'm gonna restart the build now that I've gotten the
corrective timezone
> in place, and I set the "Rebuild files"
setting thinking it would ignore my
> previous build & start fresh (per the help gizmo in
the makefile). No love,
> it says the "kernel fylesystem is still
there." 

This should umount the kernel filesystems:

$ cd $BUILDDIR/jhalfs && sudo make do_housekeeping

> OK, so I'm doing wacko stuff on wacko hardware with
wacko software... I
> realize that. 

You're having a lot of fun )

> Again, this is informational only... having fun getting
back into LFS again
> - the only "problem" with LFS as a hobby is
once you get it working, you
> don't need to build it again for at least a couple of
years... 

Yes, I do a lot of xLFS builds but my master system is yet a
LFS-6.0 with few 
updates.

Thanks for the information.

-- 
Manuel Canales Esparcia
Usuario de LFS nº2886:       http://www.linuxfroms
cratch.org
LFS en castellano: http://www.escomp
oslinux.org/lfs-es http://www.lfs-es.info
TLDP-ES:                           http://es.tldp.org
-- 
http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/alfs-discu
ss
FAQ: http://www.linux
fromscratch.org/faq/
Unsubscribe: See the above information page

Rumor has it that M.Canales.es may have mentioned these
words:

>You're a very brave man, that's a heavy build entorn


There's a fine line between bravery & stupidity... I'm
usually on the wrong 
side of that line. 

>To prevent download the book, select "Working
copy" in the "release" menu and
>put in "Loc of working copy" the full path to
the LFS book sources directory
>included in the CD-Live.
>
>To prevent packages/patches download, copy manually all
needed packages and
>patches to $BUILDDIR/sources and don't select
"Retrieve source files" option.

Or, I've found that one _can_select 'Retrieve source files'
& make sure one 
specifies '/lfs-sources' as the retrieval directory, and it
will do the 
copying. If it's not found in the archive, then it will
attempt to download 
the package as a backup option... This was working with the
"Use Stable 
Book version" and typing 6.2 in the field, it would
download the book, but 
grab all the sources from the directory... so at least I
wasn't trying to 
download all the packages all the time; just the book.

> > [[ a more major nitpick: Where the heck in the
book is 066-?.... 
> (snippage) ]]
>
>The scripts numbers refers to the absolute position of
that section on the
>book flow. That is, 066-glibc meants that that Glibc
build instructions come
>from the section placed at the 66 position in the book.
>
>To have the same numeration than in the online book
involve to add a lot of
>extra XSL code for little gain.

I was going to suggest that even just a comment field with
that data might 
be handy, but that would still put extra work on the package
maintainers to 
make sure if the book shifts that they have to diddle with
the comments, so 
that still isn't a perfect plan.

>  Looking at $BUILDDIR/jhalfs/lfs-commands you
>can see a subdirectory for each book chapter containing
the scripts in the
>same order than their respective pages are in the book
TOC.

OK, now I know where to look for that.

>This should umount the kernel filesystems:
>
>$ cd $BUILDDIR/jhalfs && sudo make
do_housekeeping

Thanks for that - this'll save a lot of reboots.

One (hopefully simple) request to the jhalfs maintainers:

Can the timezone default be set to $TZ instead of GMT? Every
time I typed 
in EST, EST5 or EST5EDT either the value wasn't there, or
the link didn't 
exist. [[ At least with EST5EDT, it was supposed to link to

America/Indianapolis, and as the state of Indiana has been
one of the most 
stubborn in the midwest region to actually support daylight
savings, I 
thought that was an odd default... that and
America/Indianapolis was broken 
in some manner as that's where my glibc build was b0rking.
]]

During the boot sequence, I've chosen America/Detroit (as
Michigan has 
always observed daylight savings...) and set the timezone to
$TZ to see if 
it pulls that default (I verified that it's set as a shell
variable for the 
jhalfs user) and see if it gets past that.

Thanks again,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger

--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger   | "Bugs of a
feather flock together."
sysadmin, Iceberg Computers |           Russell Nelson
zmerch30below.com          |

-- 
http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/alfs-discu
ss
FAQ: http://www.linux
fromscratch.org/faq/
Unsubscribe: See the above information page

El Jueves, 29 de Marzo de 2007 18:05, Roger Merchberger
escribió:

> Can the timezone default be set to $TZ instead of GMT?


Not all host system sets $TZ for all user by default. For
example, I don't 
have TZ in my user env:

macanasandbox:~$ echo $TZ

macanasandbox:~$


-- 
Manuel Canales Esparcia
Usuario de LFS nº2886:       http://www.linuxfroms
cratch.org
LFS en castellano: http://www.escomp
oslinux.org/lfs-es http://www.lfs-es.info
TLDP-ES:                           http://es.tldp.org
-- 
http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/alfs-discu
ss
FAQ: http://www.linux
fromscratch.org/faq/
Unsubscribe: See the above information page

M.Canales.es wrote:
> El Jueves, 29 de Marzo de 2007 18:05, Roger Merchberger
escribió:
> 
>> Can the timezone default be set to $TZ instead of
GMT? 
> 
> Not all host system sets $TZ for all user by default.
For example, I don't 
> have TZ in my user env:

But you could opt to use it if it is set. Otherwise set to
GMT. Wouldn't 
that be sufficient?

--
JH
-- 
http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/alfs-discu
ss
FAQ: http://www.linux
fromscratch.org/faq/
Unsubscribe: See the above information page

El Jueves, 29 de Marzo de 2007 19:20, Jeremy Huntwork
escribió:

> But you could opt to use it if it is set. Otherwise set
to GMT. Wouldn't
> that be sufficient?

If you can find how to set TIMEZONE to $TZ by default in
Config.in being sure 
that GMT is used when $TZ is not set in the user envar, but
keeping the 
ability to set a different TIMEZONE in Config.in, do the
commit 





-- 
Manuel Canales Esparcia
Usuario de LFS nº2886:       http://www.linuxfroms
cratch.org
LFS en castellano: http://www.escomp
oslinux.org/lfs-es http://www.lfs-es.info
TLDP-ES:                           http://es.tldp.org
-- 
http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/alfs-discu
ss
FAQ: http://www.linux
fromscratch.org/faq/
Unsubscribe: See the above information page

> So I decided I'd try to build an automated LFS using
jhalfs and the Live 
> CD
> (6.2-5). On Windows XP Pro. With VMWare 5.5. Without
networking (which I

Recommendation:-  coLinux.  (http://www.colinux.org/)

It's an implementation of the kernel running essentially as
a Windows 
application, so doesn't need emulation as such, and AFAIK
compilation speed 
is roughly the same as it would be under native Linux, of
course barring 
XP's memory consumption.  It also works; (and with 512
mb...I was using it 
before I got my ram upgrade)  I'm currently up to chapter 6
in LFS 6.2 with 
it.  Mind you, I wasn't using jhalfs as such.  I started
using it back when 
I had a USB DSL modem (which didn't work under Linux at the
time) and still 
wanted to be able to build LFS.  It has support for
networking; it's hackish 
and not quite as elegant as what you'll get under VMWare,
but again, it 
works.

The disk images available are old, but the Fedora one is the
most workable. 
AFAIK that version anywayz of Fedora doesn't have an
equivalent of Debian's 
build-essential package, so you'll need to install a basic
toolchain via 
yum.

> OK, so I'm doing wacko stuff on wacko hardware with
wacko software... I
> realize that.  I
haven't googled a ton yet, I barely skimmed the 
> README;

That does not need to be a problem.  I know from my own
experience that 
there are times when such improvisation is necessary, or
even merely 
enjoyable. 

-- 
http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/alfs-discu
ss
FAQ: http://www.linux
fromscratch.org/faq/
Unsubscribe: See the above information page

Rumor has it that Petrus may have mentioned these words:
> > So I decided I'd try to build an automated LFS
using jhalfs and the Live
> > CD
> > (6.2-5). On Windows XP Pro. With VMWare 5.5.
Without networking (which I
>
>Recommendation:-  coLinux.  (http://www.colinux.org/)

I'll have to look into that - it might remove my dependance
for cygwin...

> > OK, so I'm doing wacko stuff on wacko hardware
with wacko software... I
> > realize that.  I
haven't googled a ton yet, I barely skimmed the
> > README;
>
>That does not need to be a problem.  I know from my own
experience that
>there are times when such improvisation is necessary, or
even merely
>enjoyable.

"When all else fails, read the instructions???"


The way I see it, you'll never know until you try, and
you'll not learn 
nearly as much until it breaks.

Anyway, I found that the glibc as shipped on the LiveCD
won't compile out 
of box; "zic" barfs whilst building the timezones
as it wants to point 
America/Indianapolis at "EST5" and EST5 doesn't
exist; only EST. I copied 
EST to EST5, typed make, didn't save the config file, and
happily enough 
jhalfs restarted the glibc build, it made it all the way
through, and it's 
now currently compiling 069-gcc.

More status as it happens.

Thanks,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger

--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger   | "Profile, don't
speculate."
SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers |     Daniel J. Bernstein
zmerch30below.com          |

-- 
http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/alfs-discu
ss
FAQ: http://www.linux
fromscratch.org/faq/
Unsubscribe: See the above information page

> I'll have to look into that - it might remove my
dependance for cygwin...

Cygwin will likely still be useful to you, as it still
interfaces a bit more 
directly with Windows than coLinux does...I find the two
complement each 
other well.

> Anyway, I found that the glibc as shipped on the LiveCD
won't compile out
> of box

Ah yes, Glibc...otherwise known as the proverbial Dweller on
the Threshold. 
 
I've had more adventures with it than any other single
package or 
application I've ever used with Linux, I think...with the
possible exception 
of the also dearly beloved xorg.conf.  

-- 
http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/alfs-discu
ss
FAQ: http://www.linux
fromscratch.org/faq/
Unsubscribe: See the above information page