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List Info
Thread: Questions/queries on jhalfs
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| Questions/queries on jhalfs |
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2007-09-04 15:12:43 |
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I've downloaded jhalfs, svn version, rev 3466, to help ease the pain for my second build of BLFS.
I've a bunch of questions regarding the working of jhalfs.
1. Can I build LFS first and then go for BLFS ? I mean, can I use different jhalfs
sources for LFS and BLFS or do I have to use the same jhalfs I used for both ?
And, is it that, I have to go for BLFS to begin with ? I'm lil' confused here.
All I'm trying to know is that, can I build LFS and BLFS independently of each
other at least in the matters of jhalfs ?
2. Can I build BLFS in a chrooted environment ? If not, how or what files/config
do I need to change (a hint shall be enough !). I was thinking of using the same
technique as LFS. Would this lead to any difficulties/complications from point
of view of jhalfs ?
3. Can I stop the build anytime I like and resume from the last known point ?
Or, at least from the last package that was being compiled ?
4. Does jhalfs keeps track of installed packages even when I reconfigure jhalfs
using menuconfig provided I unselect the 'Rebuild files' and leave the
$TRACKING_DIR intact ? This is because, I want to include lots of additional
packages and also, alter the scripts for some of the BLFS included packages.
; And, I don't want to spend all time configuring/writing/adding new scripts and
finally run menuconfig followed bu the actual build, but I'd rather start building
the first few packages while, I'm editing/creating scripts. Later I can add these
scripts and reconfigure jhalfs and start the build from where it'd left off. This
; can save me a lot of time considering the number of packages, complexity
involved in editing/creating scripts and actually wait for them to build !
5. I need to keep track of the files being installed by each of the package
individually so I can use a package management tool like paco. How
do I integrate this into jhalfs ? I mean, is there an easy way of doing it
other than to edit each script manually ? If a package manager cannot
be integrated into jhalfs, how I can extract the list of files being installed
by each of the package individually ?
I would appreciate any response in this regard.
Thanks in advance.
Kevin
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| Re: Questions/queries on jhalfs |
|
2007-09-04 18:34:11 |
Kevin Williams wrote these words on 09/04/07 15:12 CST:
> I've downloaded jhalfs, svn version, rev 3466, to help
ease the pain for my
> second build of BLFS.
>
> I've a bunch of questions regarding the working of
jhalfs.
And good and complete answers to all of them would be quite
a bit
of information, a lot of which could be answered by doing
some searching
on the LFS site, and Google.
However, the short answer is this (posted by others before
to answer
very similar questions):
Because you consider it a "pain" to build from
scratch, why not just
use Gentoo?
Everything you're looking for is there, including building
from source,
without the "pain".
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| Re: Questions/queries on jhalfs |
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2007-09-04 19:00:37 |
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Thank you very much for your time and patience. 
>Because you consider it a "pain" to build from scratch, why not just
>use Gentoo?
>
>Everything you're looking for is there, including building from source,
>without the "pain".
That's not what I want. ; Thanks for the suggestion anyways.
I never said I want it without the pain, did I ?! I used the term 'help ease the pain' ! May be, you should reread my words !
>However, the short answer is this (posted by others before to answer
>;very similar questions):
I just tried tried that and came up with nothing too helpful !
Kevin
On 9/4/07, Randy McMurchy < lfs-user mcmurchy.com">lfs-usermcmurchy.com> wrote:
Kevin Williams wrote these words on 09/04/07 15:12 CST:
> I've downloaded jhalfs, svn version, rev 3466, to help ease the pain for my
> second build of BLFS.
>
> I've a bunch of questions regarding the working of jhalfs.
And good and complete answers to all of them would be quite a bit
of information, a lot of which could be answered by doing some searching
on the LFS site, and Google.
However, the short answer is this (posted by others before to answer
very similar questions):
Because you consider it a "pain" to build from scratch, why not just
use Gentoo?
Everything you're looking for is there, including building from source,
without the "pain".
--
Randy
rmlscsi: [bogomips 1003.23] [GNU ld version 2.16.1] [gcc (GCC) 4.0.3]
[GNU C Library stable release version 2.3.6] [Linux 2.6.14.3 i686]
18:33:00 up 18:35, 1 user, load average:
0.38, 0.27, 0.19
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| Re: Questions/queries on jhalfs |
 
United States |
2007-09-04 19:39:53 |
Kevin Williams wrote:
> I've downloaded jhalfs, svn version, rev 3466, to help
ease the pain for
> my second build of BLFS.
>
> I've a bunch of questions regarding the working of
jhalfs.
>
> 1. Can I build LFS first and then go for BLFS ? I mean,
can I use
> different jhalfs
> sources for LFS and BLFS or do I have to use the
same jhalfs I used
> for both ?
> And, is it that, I have to go for BLFS to begin
with ? I'm lil'
> confused here.
> All I'm trying to know is that, can I build LFS and
BLFS
> independently of each
> other at least in the matters of jhalfs ?
If you mean using two completely different versions of
jhalfs I wouldn't
recommend that or see it as necessary, since both LFS and
BLFS can be
setup using the same version.
>
> 2. Can I build BLFS in a chrooted environment ? If not,
how or what
> files/config
> do I need to change (a hint shall be enough !). I
was thinking of
> using the same
> technique as LFS. Would this lead to any
difficulties/complications
> from point
> of view of jhalfs ?
Of course, many seasoned LFS builders (myself included) do
it that way
all the time, only one package (namely Qt) has been known
not to build
right in a chroot.
>
> 3. Can I stop the build anytime I like and resume from
the last known
> point ?
> Or, at least from the last package that was being
compiled ?
>
Seeing as jhalfs generates a Makefile, it is resumable.
Except if you
were to stop it during the chroot phase and then reboot, it
might get a
little tricky.
> 4. Does jhalfs keeps track of installed packages even
when I reconfigure
> jhalfs
> using menuconfig provided I unselect the 'Rebuild
files' and leave the
> $TRACKING_DIR intact ? This is because, I want to
include lots of
That's what the TRACKING_DIR is for, unless it's cleaned out
for some
reason, jhalfs will know what's installed hopefully.
>
> 5. I need to keep track of the files being installed by
each of the package
> individually so I can use a package management tool
like paco. How
It's possible, there was a patch to add paco support to
jhalfs that was
included in a few of the past versions of jhalfs, but it
wasn't being
maintained by the person who created it for a while and was
eventually
removed.
Thomas
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| Re: Questions/queries on jhalfs |
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2007-09-04 20:30:51 |
|
Thanks a zillion Thomas, I really appreciate your help in this regard. :-D
>If you mean using two completely different versions of jhalfs I wouldn';t
>recommend that or see it as necessary, since both LFS and BLFS can be
>setup using the same version.
I think, my first question wasn't what it was intended to be. Certainly it was my fault.
I was trying to know, if I start jhalfs and configure it for BLFS, would it start with the
commands from BLFS or would it start with LFS and then proceed to BLFS ?
>only one package (namely Qt) has been known not to build
>right in a chroot.
Thanks for the hint !
>Except if you were to stop it during the chroot phase and then reboot, it might get a
>little tricky.
Again Thanks for the hint ! I see what you mean.
I guess, I should be able to manually chroot and resume make.
>;That's what the TRACKING_DIR is for, unless it's cleaned out for some
>;reason, jhalfs will know what's installed hopefully.
I read that in README files and it wasn't immediately clear whether this tracking system
saved the list of individual files of each package. The README files use the words
"This tool includes a very simple tracking system to log which packages have been
; installed using the tool". Thus, I couldn';t tell if it only saved package names
OR tar.gz';d package OR the individual files of a package or their names.
>It's possible, there was a patch to add paco support to jhalfs that was
>included in a few of the past versions of jhalfs, but it wasn't being
>maintained by the person who created it for a while and was eventually
>removed.
Yeah ! I read that ! What was discussed was about the xsl files. Which would require
knowing xls !! I were wondering if I could simply insert a command somewhere. I guess,
I found a way. It is not so easy and would require editing each of the scripts and changing
the 'make install9; lines. Possibly some scripting using sed can achieve this. Not sure,
how I could do the same for those packages which, do not include a 'make install9; line and
those which, dynamically create files (convert-mans script which converts man pages for eg.).
Personally I feel that, package management is necessary keeping in mind, 100's if not 1000's of
files abandoned by packages that were upgraded somewhere along the time. Without PM, it becomes really difficult to keep track of files which are no longer needed. I use paco for this. only to keep track of installed files (for clean removal).
Thanks again.
Regards,
Kevin
On 9/4/07, Thomas Pegg < thomasplinuxfromscratch.org">thomasplinuxfromscratch.org
> wrote:Kevin Williams wrote:
>; I've downloaded jhalfs, svn version, rev 3466, to help ease the pain for
> my second build of BLFS.
>
> I've a bunch of questions regarding the working of jhalfs.
>
> 1. Can I build LFS first and then go for BLFS ? I mean, can I use
> different jhalfs
> sources for LFS and BLFS or do I have to use the same jhalfs I used
> for both ?
> And, is it that, I have to go for BLFS to begin with ? I'm lil'
> confused here.
> ; All I'm trying to know is that, can I build LFS and BLFS
>; independently of each
> ; other at least in the matters of jhalfs ?
If you mean using two completely different versions of jhalfs I wouldn';t
recommend that or see it as necessary, since both LFS and BLFS can be
setup using the same version.
>
> 2. Can I build BLFS in a chrooted environment ? If not, how or what
> files/config
> do I need to change (a hint shall be enough !). I was thinking of
> using the same
> ; technique as LFS. Would this lead to any difficulties/complications
> from point
> ; of view of jhalfs ?
Of course, many seasoned LFS builders (myself included) do it that way
all the time, only one package (namely Qt) has been known not to build
right in a chroot.
>
> 3. Can I stop the build anytime I like and resume from the last known
> point ?
> Or, at least from the last package that was being compiled ?
>
Seeing as jhalfs generates a Makefile, it is resumable. Except if you
were to stop it during the chroot phase and then reboot, it might get a
little tricky.
> 4. Does jhalfs keeps track of installed packages even when I reconfigure
> jhalfs
>; using menuconfig provided I unselect the 'Rebuild files' and leave the
> $TRACKING_DIR intact ? This is because, I want to include lots of
That9;s what the TRACKING_DIR is for, unless it's cleaned out for some
reason, jhalfs will know what's installed hopefully.
>
> 5. I need to keep track of the files being installed by each of the package
> individually so I can use a package management tool like paco. How
It's possible, there was a patch to add paco support to jhalfs that was
included in a few of the past versions of jhalfs, but it wasn't being
maintained by the person who created it for a while and was eventually
removed.
Thomas
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| Re: Questions/queries on jhalfs |
|
2007-09-04 20:38:23 |
|
>BTW - "without the pain" = "ease the pain" (as far as normal conversation
>goes). So, in fact you did say you would like it "without the pain".
>
>Or do you mean that it is overly painful right now with your knowledge
>of jhalfs, and that you would prefer that it was still painful, but less
>so.
>
>;Bottom line is, it will be difficult to weasel out of the fact that
>you used the word "pain". Most (in fact very, very few) don't use that
>;particular word to describe their *LFS experience, so perhaps I'm just
>not familiar with what your meaning is.
>
>But I do feel fairly competent with the language.
I still don't understand what are you trying to prove with all of this ! :-(
I was just hoping to get some help. If you can't and lack the patience/decency/courtsey
why not do what you really wanna do and let others do the needful. Of course, if you really wanted do what you've already said and done, yeah ! congrats ! you've just done it. Keep it up !
Kevin
On 9/4/07, Randy McMurchy < lfs-usermcmurchy.com">lfs-usermcmurchy.com> wrote:
Kevin Williams wrote these words on 09/04/07 19:00 CST:
> I never said I want it without the pain, did I ?! I used the term 'help ease
> the pain' ! May be, you should reread my words !
I don't need to. I understand English very well.
BTW - "without the pain" = "ease the pain" (as far as normal conversation
goes). So, in fact you did say you would like it "without the pain".
Or do you mean that it is overly painful right now with your knowledge
of jhalfs, and that you would prefer that it was still painful, but less
so.
Bottom line is, it will be difficult to weasel out of the fact that
you used the word "pain". Most (in fact very, very few) don't use that
particular word to describe their *LFS experience, so perhaps I'm just
not familiar with what your meaning is.
But I do feel fairly competent with the language.
--
Randy
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| Re: Questions/queries on jhalfs |
|
2007-09-05 08:36:55 |
On 9/4/07, Kevin Williams <kevkim55gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >It's possible, there was a patch to add paco
support to jhalfs that was
> >included in a few of the past versions of jhalfs,
but it wasn't being
> >maintained by the person who created it for a while
and was eventually
> >removed.
>
> Yeah ! I read that ! What was discussed was about the
xsl files. Which would
> require
> knowing xls !! I were wondering if I could simply
insert a command
> somewhere. I guess,
> I found a way. It is not so easy and would require
editing each of the
> scripts and changing
> the 'make install' lines. Possibly some scripting using
sed can achieve
> this. Not sure,
> how I could do the same for those packages which, do
not include a 'make
> install' line and
> those which, dynamically create files (convert-mans
script which converts
> man pages for eg.).
With jhalfs (and the *lfs books) in their current form,
simply
kludging in the commands in the generated files is probably
the
easiest way to go right now. Just wrap all the installing
commands in
paco -lp+ <package> "<commands>". I've
been meaning to do something
with this for quite some time, but I always get about half
an hour
into it and then drop it for one reason or another.
The problem is that for jhalfs to do anything smart about
inserting
commands into the XML stream, it needs more attributes about
the
current commands. Manuel and I have discussed this a few
times, and I
think there should be some trivial XML additions after both
books (LFS
and BLFS) go to 6.3. I already have a local patch to add
the
appropriate attributes to LFS, but BLFS would be a lot more
work since
there's just a lot of packages there.
The next problem is that the jhalfs XSL stylesheets are not
particularly modular right now, and the only real way to
attack this
(IMO) is at the XSL level. Ideally, the XSL would have well
defined
entry points that would allow another stylesheet to step in
and do
something differently (XSLT is designed to do this). This is
the part
where I always get bogged down. I do actually understand the
XSL
fairly well, but there are a lot of workarounds in jhalfs
that make
separating the templates more difficult. These guys have to
handle a
bunch of issues where the book just has the implicit
assumption that
the user will do the right thing.
The final step would be to expose these extra stylesheets in
the
config so they were used appropriately. Manuel and George
have done a
very nice job with the configuration, so I'm pretty
confident this
would come together.
But I really think this would all be possible without too
much code in
jhalfs. A lot of the work would have to come at the book
level so that
jhalfs would receive more information about the commands in
the book
and what they're for.
--
Dan
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| Re: Questions/queries on jhalfs |
 
Spain |
2007-09-05 12:16:30 |
El Martes, 4 de Septiembre de 2007 22:12, Kevin Williams
escribió:
> I've downloaded jhalfs, svn version, rev 3466, to help
ease the pain for my
> second build of BLFS.
>
> I've a bunch of questions regarding the working of
jhalfs.
>
> 1. Can I build LFS first and then go for BLFS ?
You must build first LFS to can start building BLFS packages
on-top of it.
> I mean, can I use different
> jhalfs
> sources for LFS and BLFS or do I have to use the
same jhalfs I used for
> both ?
Actually, you will use different sources. With jhalfs you
can build
LFS/CLFS/HLFS systems, but BLFS packages are installed using
blfs-tool.
blfs-tool is a separate build framework included as a
sub-package into jhalfs
but don't depend on jhalfs. jhalfs is able to install
blfs-tool as part of a
{,H,C}LFS build (when selecting the "Add blfs-tool
support" option) or just
install blfs-tool on a running system (when selecting BLFS
as the book to be
built).
> All I'm trying to know is that, can I build LFS and
BLFS independently
> of each
> other at least in the matters of jhalfs ?
They are totally independent. There are ways to build both
LFS and BLFS at the
same time from the same Makefile, but that is a very
advanced topic.
> 2. Can I build BLFS in a chrooted environment ? If not,
how or what
> files/config
> do I need to change (a hint shall be enough !). I
was thinking of using
> the same
> technique as LFS. Would this lead to any
difficulties/complications
> from point
> of view of jhalfs ?
Like has been pointed, looks like only QT have issues when
building into a
chroot. Also, I would suggest that the running kernel should
be the one to be
used on the final LFS+BLFS system.
>
> 3. Can I stop the build anytime I like and resume from
the last known point
> ?
> Or, at least from the last package that was being
compiled ?
Yes, but taking care that is you are building into a chroot
you must be sure
that the virtual kernel filesystems are mounted before
resuming the build.
> 4. Does jhalfs keeps track of installed packages even
when I reconfigure
> jhalfs
jhalfs don't track installed packages, blfs-tool does it.
blfs-tool track what BLFS packages has been installed on a
previous run to can
skip they from the configuration menu and for the
dependencies tree. For each
installed package a empty file is created in $TRACKING_DIR.
That file is
named -, where is the ID attribute
used in the BLFS
XML sources identify the page for that package, and
is the version
installed for that package.
> using menuconfig provided I unselect the 'Rebuild
files' and leave the
> $TRACKING_DIR intact ?
blfs-tool don't have a "Rebuild files" option.
That option is on jhalfs to
automatically clean-up a target directory before start
building a new fresh
system.
>
> 5. I need to keep track of the files being installed by
each of the package
> individually so I can use a package management tool
like paco. How
> do I integrate this into jhalfs ? I mean, is there
an easy way of doing
> it
> other than to edit each script manually ?
No easy way to integrate it. Maybe in a future version.
> If a package manager cannot
> be integrated into jhalfs, how I can extract the
list of files being
> installed
> by each of the package individually ?
For {,H,C}LFS builds there is a "Log installed
files" option that generates
the list of files installed for each package using a find
command.
For BLFS you need to insert the appropriate commands for
your PM into each
build script.
--
Manuel Canales Esparcia
Usuario de LFS nº2886: http://www.linuxfroms
cratch.org
LFS en castellano: http://www.escomp
oslinux.org/lfs-es http://www.lfs-es.info
TLDP-ES: http://es.tldp.org
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| Re: Questions/queries on jhalfs |
Spain |
2007-09-05 12:25:43 |
El Miércoles, 5 de Septiembre de 2007 15:36, Dan Nicholson
escribió:
> The problem is that for jhalfs to do anything smart
about inserting
> commands into the XML stream, it needs more attributes
about the
> current commands. Manuel and I have discussed this a
few times, and I
> think there should be some trivial XML additions after
both books (LFS
> and BLFS) go to 6.3. I already have a local patch to
add the
> appropriate attributes to LFS, but BLFS would be a lot
more work since
> there's just a lot of packages there.
Maybe now is time propose again that XML changes on the LFS
book. I have time
right now to apply the changes and start working on the
jhalfs XSL re-do.
--
Manuel Canales Esparcia
Usuario de LFS nº2886: http://www.linuxfroms
cratch.org
LFS en castellano: http://www.escomp
oslinux.org/lfs-es http://www.lfs-es.info
TLDP-ES: http://es.tldp.org
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| Re: Questions/queries on jhalfs |
|
2007-09-05 12:34:40 |
On 9/5/07, M.Canales.es <macanamacana-es.com> wrote:
> El Miércoles, 5 de Septiembre de 2007 15:36, Dan
Nicholson escribió:
>
> > The problem is that for jhalfs to do anything
smart about inserting
> > commands into the XML stream, it needs more
attributes about the
> > current commands. Manuel and I have discussed this
a few times, and I
> > think there should be some trivial XML additions
after both books (LFS
> > and BLFS) go to 6.3. I already have a local patch
to add the
> > appropriate attributes to LFS, but BLFS would be a
lot more work since
> > there's just a lot of packages there.
>
> Maybe now is time propose again that XML changes on the
LFS book. I have time
> right now to apply the changes and start working on the
jhalfs XSL re-do.
Please do. You know what's best to get useful attributes
into the XML.
--
Dan
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