Shared Calendar?

Hey All,

Just a quick note to say hello and respond to some recent
concerns about 
the inactivity of LFS projects.

For me, as I'm sure is the case for several others, several
things in my 
personal life have taken up nearly all my time lately. LFS
gets pushed 
into the background.

I think we'd all agree, especially since we don't get paid
for our work, 
that work at LFS is completely voluntary. Even so, we work
hard to 
create a solid, stable product that in many ways reaches
towards the 
level of 'Professional', and that is exactly where we want
it to be.

Unfortunately, to keep LFS there, there needs to be enough
time and 
energy devoted to it. For me, that simply won't happen
anymore unless I 
can properly schedule my time to allow for LFS and reserve
space for it 
- space that I know I *will* use for development of LFS.

To that end, I wonder if it would be at all useful to anyone
else to 
create a publicly shared Calendar that would show, among
other things, 
when each of the devs are scheduled to work on the various
projects? Not 
that anything would be set in stone - but at least it might
give 
everyone an idea of who is doing what and when, and perhaps
move all of 
us to be more regular in development?

Any thoughts?

--
JH
-- 
http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/alfs-discu
ss
FAQ: http://www.linux
fromscratch.org/faq/
Unsubscribe: See the above information page

Jeremy Huntwork wrote:

> Hey All,

Greetings, with some delay.

> Just a quick note to say hello and respond to some
recent concerns about
> the inactivity of LFS projects.

It would come as of no surprise, especially to you.

> For me, as I'm sure is the case for several others,
several things in my
> personal life have taken up nearly all my time lately.
LFS gets pushed
> into the background.
> 
> I think we'd all agree, especially since we don't get
paid for our work,
> that work at LFS is completely voluntary. Even so, we
work hard to
> create a solid, stable product that in many ways
reaches towards the
> level of 'Professional', and that is exactly where we
want it to be.

Agreed, but that is the way F/LOSS works, most of the time.
And since the
time dedicated to this is detracted from personal spare
time, there is a
huge list of reasons why you have to respect everybody's
time and good
will.

> Unfortunately, to keep LFS there, there needs to be
enough time and
> energy devoted to it. For me, that simply won't happen
anymore unless I
> can properly schedule my time to allow for LFS and
reserve space for it
> - space that I know I *will* use for development of
LFS.

There are several, more competitive and unfortunately for
you, extremely
more competent projects. Cross-LFS and DIY-Linux are an
example, and they
are far from being just "forks" right now. It is
also of interest of how
feelings between the three communities *are* right now. I
also know that
there was an attempt by you to create LeafOS, which would
have been yet
another fork, initially. And it has stopped because of the
same reasons why
LFS is facing its own problems for some time now.

> To that end, I wonder if it would be at all useful to
anyone else to
> create a publicly shared Calendar that would show,
among other things,
> when each of the devs are scheduled to work on the
various projects? Not
> that anything would be set in stone - but at least it
might give
> everyone an idea of who is doing what and when, and
perhaps move all of
> us to be more regular in development?
> 
> Any Thoughts? 

A shared calendar...

You would require a greater number of people to join the
project, people who
are to often *disagree* with the people in management right
now and do not
appreciate the kind of public relations that seemingly hold
LFS together,
just like they do not particularly enjoy having plausible
concerns
regarding *plagiarism* done on the conscious and deliberate
level, from
time to time.

The fact that LFS broke into several other projects that
took a life of
their own has nothing to do with the fact that you wish to
follow the
pedantic route, and offer something fun to learn from. Fun
is irrelevant in
this particular case, for if that was the case, a simple
tutorial on a
static page would have been more than sufficient. It has to
do with the
intricate web of politics surrounding the LFS and that have
been the cause
for its fall from grace, for some of its past users at
least.

It should be of no wonder that most users do not choose to
adopt LFS
anymore, despite of how they feel about it. Historically, it
may have its
place, but right now it seems to only backport features from
cross-LFS and
diy-linux, without the necessary accompanying *credit*.

F/LOSS, among other things, works on a credit basis.

Therefore, if you need a calendar, here is task one: How to
enlarge user and
developer base, the right way.
 
Personally, I think that some people, you included, actually
have a very
particular agenda on how things should be done and who is
not invited into
the party; therefore, it might be ill - advised to ask for
opinions you are
not to accept, a priori. Not to mention illogical.

Use the proper credit system, find somebody to stand for the
unity of your
project, accept reality: various projects like diy-linux and
cross-lfs took
form because the arguments presented were valid but the
"fathering"
community would not accept them. People who wanted to
contribute, started
moving away. This is your major problem. It is not a
contribution problem,
but it is an attribution and management problem.

LFS cannot continue to exist simply because it ports the
work of other
projects into it, like it does with cross-lfs and diy-linux.
It should have
enough reasons to survive on its own.

In a few words: Work on making others trust you, because
that is of no
marginal relevance at all. Strife and flashy, order - like
announcements,
do not contribute to progress, at all.

This is from someone who has had a great respect for this
project. Do not
think otherwise.

> --
> JH

Enjoy your holidays and good luck.

-- 
http://lab.obsethryl.eu

-- 
http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/alfs-discu
ss
FAQ: http://www.linux
fromscratch.org/faq/
Unsubscribe: See the above information page

George Makrydakis a écrit :
> Jeremy Huntwork wrote:
>
>   
>> Hey All,
>>     
>
> Greetings, with some delay.
>
>   
>> Just a quick note to say hello and respond to some
recent concerns about
>> the inactivity of LFS projects.
>>     
>
> It would come as of no surprise, especially to you.
>
>   
>> For me, as I'm sure is the case for several others,
several things in my
>> personal life have taken up nearly all my time
lately. LFS gets pushed
>> into the background.
>>
>> I think we'd all agree, especially since we don't
get paid for our work,
>> that work at LFS is completely voluntary. Even so,
we work hard to
>> create a solid, stable product that in many ways
reaches towards the
>> level of 'Professional', and that is exactly where
we want it to be.
>>     
>
> Agreed, but that is the way F/LOSS works, most of the
time. And since the
> time dedicated to this is detracted from personal spare
time, there is a
> huge list of reasons why you have to respect
everybody's time and good
> will.
>
>   
>> Unfortunately, to keep LFS there, there needs to be
enough time and
>> energy devoted to it. For me, that simply won't
happen anymore unless I
>> can properly schedule my time to allow for LFS and
reserve space for it
>> - space that I know I *will* use for development of
LFS.
>>     
>
> There are several, more competitive and unfortunately
for you, extremely
> more competent projects. Cross-LFS and DIY-Linux are an
example, and they
> are far from being just "forks" right now. It
is also of interest of how
> feelings between the three communities *are* right now.
I also know that
> there was an attempt by you to create LeafOS, which
would have been yet
> another fork, initially. And it has stopped because of
the same reasons why
> LFS is facing its own problems for some time now.
>
>   
>> To that end, I wonder if it would be at all useful
to anyone else to
>> create a publicly shared Calendar that would show,
among other things,
>> when each of the devs are scheduled to work on the
various projects? Not
>> that anything would be set in stone - but at least
it might give
>> everyone an idea of who is doing what and when, and
perhaps move all of
>> us to be more regular in development?
>>
>> Any Thoughts? 
>>     
>
> A shared calendar...
>
> You would require a greater number of people to join
the project, people who
> are to often *disagree* with the people in management
right now and do not
> appreciate the kind of public relations that seemingly
hold LFS together,
> just like they do not particularly enjoy having
plausible concerns
> regarding *plagiarism* done on the conscious and
deliberate level, from
> time to time.
>
> The fact that LFS broke into several other projects
that took a life of
> their own has nothing to do with the fact that you wish
to follow the
> pedantic route, and offer something fun to learn from.
Fun is irrelevant in
> this particular case, for if that was the case, a
simple tutorial on a
> static page would have been more than sufficient. It
has to do with the
> intricate web of politics surrounding the LFS and that
have been the cause
> for its fall from grace, for some of its past users at
least.
>
> It should be of no wonder that most users do not choose
to adopt LFS
> anymore, despite of how they feel about it.
Historically, it may have its
> place, but right now it seems to only backport features
from cross-LFS and
> diy-linux, without the necessary accompanying
*credit*.
>
> F/LOSS, among other things, works on a credit basis.
>
> Therefore, if you need a calendar, here is task one:
How to enlarge user and
> developer base, the right way.
>  
> Personally, I think that some people, you included,
actually have a very
> particular agenda on how things should be done and who
is not invited into
> the party; therefore, it might be ill - advised to ask
for opinions you are
> not to accept, a priori. Not to mention illogical.
>
> Use the proper credit system, find somebody to stand
for the unity of your
> project, accept reality: various projects like
diy-linux and cross-lfs took
> form because the arguments presented were valid but the
"fathering"
> community would not accept them. People who wanted to
contribute, started
> moving away. This is your major problem. It is not a
contribution problem,
> but it is an attribution and management problem.
>
> LFS cannot continue to exist simply because it ports
the work of other
> projects into it, like it does with cross-lfs and
diy-linux. It should have
> enough reasons to survive on its own.
>
> In a few words: Work on making others trust you,
because that is of no
> marginal relevance at all. Strife and flashy, order -
like announcements,
> do not contribute to progress, at all.
>
> This is from someone who has had a great respect for
this project. Do not
> think otherwise.
>
>   
>> --
>> JH
>>     
>
> Enjoy your holidays and good luck.
>
>   
Hello george, pleased to read you.
I have a great respect to lfs projetct too and to cross-lfs
too, but I 
am a bit disapointed by by alfs.
May be we will talk a day on irc as once on past ?
Jcharles
-- 
http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/alfs-discu
ss
FAQ: http://www.linux
fromscratch.org/faq/
Unsubscribe: See the above information page

Jean Charles Passard wrote:
  
> Hello george, pleased to read you.
> I have a great respect to lfs projetct too and to
cross-lfs too, but I
> am a bit disapointed by by alfs.
> May be we will talk a day on irc as once on past ?
> Jcharles

*Naturellement*, we will certainly will, at the usual place
for cross-lfs.

Happy Holidays.

-- 
http://lab.obsethryl.eu

-- 
http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/alfs-discu
ss
FAQ: http://www.linux
fromscratch.org/faq/
Unsubscribe: See the above information page