End user build

On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 14:29 +0000, archaiclfs-matrix.org wrote:
> Kevin Fries <kfriescctus.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2006-05-11 at 20:00 +0200, M.Canales.es
wrote:
> >> 
> >> What is a "MOM" machine?
> > 
> > A machine so simple, you can hand it to your
mother to use.  No geek
> > stuff like compilers, and complex command lines.
> 
> LFS != simple whether it is automated or not. Lindows
(or whatever they
> call it now) sounds like a better choice.

The problem with most Linux distros is the same problem as
with all
Windows and Mac systems... They are so busy trying to be all
things to
all people, that they often fail at their core task...
making data and
communications easier to access.

My goal is to eliminate all of that.  As an example, Windows
comes with
one web browser, IE.  OK, its a lousy browser, and it is a
virus that
did not even wait to happen... but even Mom can figure out
which program
to run to get to the Internet.  Email is with (he says while
shuddering)
Outlook [Express].  But Windows based systems are so
insecure, and so
virus prone, they create nightmares all of their own.  Linux
does not
have the virus and security problems, but every distro comes
with what
seems like 15 web browsers!!! (OK, it's only about 4-5 but
that is still
ridiculous) And, half a dozen email programs.  I get the
idea of
options, but mom does not need that, she needs to shop
online, receive
pictures of the grandkids, and write me a note reminding me
that I don't
call often enough.  For that she wants one, and only one
method of doing
things.  She is not interested in becoming computer
literate, neither
Windows, Mac, or Linux literate... that is where I come in.

My goal is to set up an extremely flexible, modular setup
that is very
straight forward.  One easy way to get tasks done.  A system
that
includes all the software required to get the task done, and
not one
additional piece.  To set my content guys crazy designing
services, and
to get them to reuse services at all costs.  This will
create a easy,
simple to use computer that can have simplified
documentation.  A
simplified interface so easy that mom can use it without
weekly MIS
training.  And if I am truly successful, I hope to make it
even easier
such that an executive can not screw it up... but I may be
reaching too
far with that one, lol.

My thought was to start with the LFS system, but it seems
too tied to
building a machine for me to use.  For that, its FANTASTIC
(though I
have been less than successful in getting a working system
with 6.1.1).
So getting back to my original question, I can't be the
first person
that has wanted to build a more simplified machine, and the
automated
tools should make it easier to build, so has anyone already
built a
configuration file that will allow me to build a simplified
machine that
I can tailor even further to our requirements?


Thanks for the help

-- 
Kevin Fries
Linux Engineer
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On 5/15/06, Kevin Fries <kfriescctus.com> wrote:
>
> My thought was to start with the LFS system, but it
seems too tied to
> building a machine for me to use.  For that, its
FANTASTIC (though I
> have been less than successful in getting a working
system with 6.1.1).
> So getting back to my original question, I can't be
the first person
> that has wanted to build a more simplified machine, and
the automated
> tools should make it easier to build, so has anyone
already built a
> configuration file that will allow me to build a
simplified machine that
> I can tailor even further to our requirements?

It seems as though you really need to roll your own distro,
and the
tools here aren't completely up to that task.  One major
reason for
that is once you get beyond the base system (and even within
the base
system), there are a million and one options, so there is
not really a
unified solution here.  After all, the motto is "Your
Distro. Your
Rules."  You'll probably need to build your own
system that puts in
place your specific applications and configuration.  Without
even
knowing what your preferences are, I guarantee you mine are
different.
 Same with everyone else here.

Back to actually implementing your own system.  The problem
of only
installing end user applications means that you have to
define -devel
packages.  This is exactly how the big boys do it. 
Unfortunately,
this means you have to audit each package, deciding with
binaries/headers/libraries to exclude.  It's a lot of work,
and
something that makes LFS a lot easier.  We just install
everything
from a package.

A lot of the tools here can be extended to automate
packages.  jhalfs
will sometime in the future be extended to pull the commands
from the
BLFS book.  At some point, though, you've gotta do the
work.  Or, just
use a distro like Ubuntu, and pick a set of packages for
your mom so
she's only got one web browser and one email client.  It's
certainly
possible, but the means to that end are so varied that there
isn't one
solution that works for everyone.  Hence why people come to
LFS in the
first place.  They want to decide that means on their own
and not have
it decided for them.

--
Dan
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On Mon, May 15, 2006 at 08:57:55AM -0700, Dan Nicholson
wrote:
> 
> A lot of the tools here can be extended to automate
packages.  jhalfs
> will sometime in the future be extended to pull the
commands from the
> BLFS book.  At some point, though, you've gotta do the
work.  Or, just
> use a distro like Ubuntu, and pick a set of packages
for your mom so
> she's only got one web browser and one email client. 
It's certainly
> possible, but the means to that end are so varied that
there isn't one
> solution that works for everyone.  Hence why people
come to LFS in the
> first place.  They want to decide that means on their
own and not have
> it decided for them.

Very well stated.

-- 
Archaic

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