Chapter 24. X Window System - visual changes

Bruce Dubbs wrote these words on 04/30/06 15:43 CST:

> Something like:
> 
> Finally in each section (using proto for an example)
> 
> cd $XBUILDROOT/proto
> wget wget -i ../proto.wget
> 
> for package in *.tar.bz2
> do
>   packagedir=`echo $package | sed 's/.tar.bz2//'`
>   tar -xf $package &&
>   cd $packagedir &&
>   ./configure $XORG_CONFIG &&
>   make install
>   if [ $? -ne 0 ]; then
>     break #stop the build if the previous command
failed
>   fi
>   cd .. &&
>   rm -rf $packagedir
> done 2>&1 | tee -a ../xorg-proto.log #log the
entire loop

But I thought this had been discussed already and that we
wouldn't
completely automate this. I thought it was determined that
users
should figure out for themselves how to automate this. At
least
that was my understanding of the results of the discussion.

-- 
Randy

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Randy McMurchy wrote:
> Bruce Dubbs wrote these words on 04/30/06 15:43 CST:
> 
> 
>>Something like:
>>
>>Finally in each section (using proto for an example)
>>
>>cd $XBUILDROOT/proto
>>wget wget -i ../proto.wget
>>
>>for package in *.tar.bz2
>>do
>>  packagedir=`echo $package | sed 's/.tar.bz2//'`
>>  tar -xf $package &&
>>  cd $packagedir &&
>>  ./configure $XORG_CONFIG &&
>>  make install
>>  if [ $? -ne 0 ]; then
>>    break #stop the build if the previous command
failed
>>  fi
>>  cd .. &&
>>  rm -rf $packagedir
>>done 2>&1 | tee -a ../xorg-proto.log #log the
entire loop
> 
> 
> But I thought this had been discussed already and that
we wouldn't
> completely automate this. I thought it was determined
that users
> should figure out for themselves how to automate this.
At least
> that was my understanding of the results of the
discussion.
> 

Yes, the intention was to provide an example at the top of
the page that 
automated most sections, but provide text in each section
that says 
"Execute the following commands for each of your
chosen packages:"

ATM, however, the existing pages are so very far from
complete...just 
sectioned out so that we could see the index.  I'm working
on them now.
-- DJ Lucas
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DJ Lucas wrote:

> 
> ATM, however, the existing pages are so very far from
complete...just 
> sectioned out so that we could see the index.  I'm
working on them now.
> -- DJ Lucas

Okay.  First off, sorry for the delay, personal life got in
the way 
(this has also put off the OOo rebuild).  X section is now
what I feel 
to be complete as far as look and feel and necessary
content. 
Hopefully, this makes the xorg7 instructions a little easier
to manage 
and more comfortable for our users.  Also the config section
has moved 
to the X Window Components page for all three packages.

There is still more to do before commit, especially for
xorg7 section: 
spell checking, build times, corrected md5sums links (I
don't know where 
to point them yet so they are pointed to a nonexistent
downloads host), 
and recreating the wget file lists without explicit paths. 
These will 
be completed tomorrow evening, but if anyone could be so
kind as to 
review the section content, please do and let me know if
anything else 
should be added, removed or better explained.

http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/~dj/blfs-x7-temp/inde
x.html

Thanks.

-- DJ Lucas
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On 5/2/06, DJ Lucas <blfs-devlfs.lucasit.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/~dj/blfs-x7-temp/inde
x.html

I didn't fully proofread yet, but I think it looks great so
far.  And
you got the ed dependency in.  Awesome.

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On Wed, May 03, 2006 at 01:32:49PM -0700, Dan Nicholson
wrote:
> 
> I didn't fully proofread yet, but I think it looks
great so far.  And
> you got the ed dependency in.  Awesome.

Perhaps what ever needs ed can be converted to sed? It's
getting to the
point where only gray beards remember how to use ed. I'm
really
surprised xorg-7 requires it.

Anyway, here's my observations:


http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/~dj/blfs-x7-te
mp/x/installing.html

The intro page seems to lack flow. It intermixes xorg vs.
xfree with
xorg 6.9 vs xorg 7. The flow of why xorg/xfree should be
first and
self-contained, followed with why 6.9/7.0. A note that
6.9's build
process mimics 6.8 might help people make a more informed
decision as
well.


http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/~dj/blfs-x7-temp/x/
xorg7.html

  make &&
  make install
  if [ $? -ne 0 ]; then
    break #stop the build if the previous command failed
  fi
  cd .. &&

The if/then doesn't make sense to me. I'm guessing you
used that because
if any && command fails, bash jumps to the next
command that doesn't
have a && (like rm -rf $packagedir) and happily
tries to carry on. set
-e should alleviate that and allow all &&'s to be
removed, but this is
just a preferential thing.

On this same page, in the note box: s/likey/likely/

A general note for many of the pages deals with the
replaceable tags.
You've provided a path in the tags where <prefix>
would be less
confusing.


http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/~dj/blfs-x7-temp/
x/x-setup.html

This page has a note about xterm, but doesn't mention that
you could
instead just remove the xterm command from xinitrc in favor
of another
term program (like gnome-terminal or xfce-terminal)
installed later.

Also, the following sentences are misleading:

"When installing X, symlinks were created from the OTF
and TTF X font
directories to /usr/share/fonts/X11-{OTF,TTF}. This prevents
Fontconfig
from using the poorly rendered Type1 fonts or the
non-scalable bitmapped
fonts."

We don't symlink to avoid conflict with Fontconfig, we
install fonts in
another directory to avoid conflicts, then symlink
non-conflicting fonts
to the fontconfig-controlled directory.

Fontconfig and extra fonts:

There seems to be 2 types of font packages; those fontconfig
will use by
default, those it won't. I'm assuming nothing needs to be
done for the
former and it just works? As for the latter, do they all
require
replacing an existing font family like the dejavu example
shows?

The usernotes link is way down on the page.

That's all the help this layman can provide. I'm still
using xorg from a
year ago at least.


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On 5/3/06, Archaic <archaiclinuxfromscratch.org>
wrote:
> On Wed, May 03, 2006 at 01:32:49PM -0700, Dan Nicholson
wrote:
> >
> > I didn't fully proofread yet, but I think it
looks great so far.  And
> > you got the ed dependency in.  Awesome.
>
> Perhaps what ever needs ed can be converted to sed?
It's getting to the
> point where only gray beards remember how to use ed.
I'm really
> surprised xorg-7 requires it.

I forgot about that.  I'll test that out real soon.


> "When installing X, symlinks were created from
the OTF and TTF X font
> directories to /usr/share/fonts/X11-{OTF,TTF}. This
prevents Fontconfig
> from using the poorly rendered Type1 fonts or the
non-scalable bitmapped
> fonts."
>
> We don't symlink to avoid conflict with Fontconfig, we
install fonts in
> another directory to avoid conflicts, then symlink
non-conflicting fonts
> to the fontconfig-controlled directory.

To be fair, I wrote the above statement.  I'm confused
about your
statement.  What you're saying is correct with the
exception that
there aren't really conflicts with Fontconfig.  There are
just fonts
we'd rather have it avoid since they render poorly. 
Regardless,
though, how would you suggest fixing the wording?


> Fontconfig and extra fonts:
>
> There seems to be 2 types of font packages; those
fontconfig will use by
> default, those it won't.

No, Fontconfig will use everything it finds.  The
"knows by default"
is that /etc/fonts.conf ships with a set of well known font
packages
listed as aliases for monospace, sans and serif.

> I'm assuming nothing needs to be done for the
> former and it just works? As for the latter, do they
all require
> replacing an existing font family like the dejavu
example shows?

In all cases, it just works if you specify the font you want
to use. 
The rub is that many applications which fetch fonts from
fontconfig
(say, through pango), will request a generic family like
monospace. 
Then fontconfig will use the list in fonts.conf as the
preferred set
of fonts it looks to first to try to render the characters.

In the case of dejavu, it is a drop in replacement for
Bitstream Vera,
but with much better Unicode coverage.  Unfortunately, it is
not
listed in the preference matching in fonts.conf.  Fontconfig
is highly
configurable, but I never figured out how to put this very
nice font
near the top of the preference list without hammering
fonts.conf. 
Without dejavu in the preference list, requesting a generic
family
like sans would probably return the FreeFont fonts for many
languages
since it has very good Unicode coverage.  However, it's
ugly.

So, to answer your question, nothing needs to be done to
make
Fontconfig use new fonts.  Drop it in a location FC is aware
of, run
fc-cache and off you go.  However, the above fix is a very
nice tweak
to allow DejaVu to be my generic font.

> The usernotes link is way down on the page.

I couldn't decide a better place.  If you see a better
spot, I'll move it.

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On Wed, May 03, 2006 at 03:29:22PM -0700, Dan Nicholson
wrote:
> 
> >"When installing X, symlinks were created
from the OTF and TTF X font
> >directories to /usr/share/fonts/X11-{OTF,TTF}. This
prevents Fontconfig
> >from using the poorly rendered Type1 fonts or the
non-scalable bitmapped
> >fonts."
> >
> >We don't symlink to avoid conflict with
Fontconfig, we install fonts in
> >another directory to avoid conflicts, then symlink
non-conflicting fonts
> >to the fontconfig-controlled directory.
> 
> To be fair, I wrote the above statement.  I'm confused
about your
> statement.  What you're saying is correct with the
exception that
> there aren't really conflicts with Fontconfig.  There
are just fonts
> we'd rather have it avoid since they render poorly. 
Regardless,
> though, how would you suggest fixing the wording?

I used conflict for brevity in place of:

   "poorly rendered Type1 or non-scalabe bitmapped
fonts"

The thing is, the symlinks do not *prevent* anything. The
installation
of X fonts in a place other than /usr/share/fonts is the
prevention. The
symlinks *add* to fontconfig. I hope I'm being more clear
this time
around. You paragraph explcitely state that the symlinks
*are* the
prevention.

> No, Fontconfig will use everything it finds.  The
"knows by default"
> is that /etc/fonts.conf ships with a set of well known
font packages
> listed as aliases for monospace, sans and serif.

Perhaps that can be clarified in the book? What you wrote
here makes
perfect sense. What I read in the book left me wondering
what "knows by
default" meant. And the "example" used
(dejavu) is a package that
doesn't fit either definition because the book says it is
known by
default but still requires editing. Basically, I think it
would help if
you just say (for each package) this font package needs X
for Y
purposes and then give the example of how to do Y. Also,
what if
multiple font packages that support being used when
monospace is
requested are installed? How to do manage order of
preference?

> >The usernotes link is way down on the page.
> 
> I couldn't decide a better place.  If you see a better
spot, I'll move it.

Depends on what information is intended to be in that wiki.
From the
name of the wiki page, I'd say that all topics covered on
the book page
are fair game. If that is the case, I'd place the notest
link at or near
the top of the book page. Currently it only holds font info,
but it
could include something from the earlier paragraphs causing
the link to
be after-the-fact.

-- 
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On 5/3/06, Archaic <archaiclinuxfromscratch.org>
wrote:
> On Wed, May 03, 2006 at 03:29:22PM -0700, Dan Nicholson
wrote:
> >
> > >"When installing X, symlinks were
created from the OTF and TTF X font
> > >directories to /usr/share/fonts/X11-{OTF,TTF}.
This prevents Fontconfig
> > >from using the poorly rendered Type1 fonts or
the non-scalable bitmapped
> > >fonts."
>
> The thing is, the symlinks do not *prevent* anything.
The installation
> of X fonts in a place other than /usr/share/fonts is
the prevention. The
> symlinks *add* to fontconfig. I hope I'm being more
clear this time
> around. You paragraph explcitely state that the
symlinks *are* the
> prevention.

OK, I see what you mean now.  What I wrote was a stab in the
dark
because I still don't know how to describe the Fontconfig
situation in
less than 100 words.  How about this.

"The X fonts were not installed in a location known to
Fontconfig. 
This prevents Fontconfig from using the poorly rendered Type
1 fonts
or the non-scalable bitmapped fonts.  Symlinks were created
from the
OTF and TTF X font directories to
/usr/share/fonts/X11-{OTF,TTF}. 
This allows Fontconfig to use the scalable OpenType and
TrueType fonts
provided by X."

> > No, Fontconfig will use everything it finds.  The
"knows by default"
> > is that /etc/fonts.conf ships with a set of well
known font packages
> > listed as aliases for monospace, sans and serif.
>
> Perhaps that can be clarified in the book? What you
wrote here makes
> perfect sense. What I read in the book left me
wondering what "knows by
> default" meant.

I can try to fix that up.

> And the "example" used (dejavu) is a
package that
> doesn't fit either definition because the book says it
is known by
> default but still requires editing.

If I wrote that it was known by default, then that was a
typo.

> Basically, I think it would help if
> you just say (for each package) this font package needs
X for Y
> purposes and then give the example of how to do Y.

As I said in the previous mail, nothing *needs* to be done. 
The
DejaVu hint was just one that seemed like a good tweak, and
I thought
it provided an example of how you can configure Fontconfig. 
Please
let me know if I'm missing what you implied with X and Y
above.

> Also, what if
> multiple font packages that support being used when
monospace is
> requested are installed? How to do manage order of
preference?

Haven't figured out the order of preference trick besides
just to add
the font name into the list in /etc/fonts/fonts.conf.  I've
been
meaning to ask on the FC list because I don't think I'm
grasping half
the power of the system.

We could create a custom conf file in /etc/fonts/conf.d with
a
preference list (I think).  Part of the problem with playing
with the
conf files that was pointed out by Alexander is that people
don't do
it.  That's why the other tweak for the Firefly fonts was
placed on
the Wiki.

> > >The usernotes link is way down on the page.
> >
> > I couldn't decide a better place.  If you see a
better spot, I'll move it.
>
> Depends on what information is intended to be in that
wiki. From the
> name of the wiki page, I'd say that all topics covered
on the book page
> are fair game.

True.  I thought I'd added a link to the bottom of each
section. 
Maybe it would be best to have one link at the top.


I'm gonna wait until DJ commits the reorganization before I
make any
changes to this page.  I've got other things on my plate
before I want
to tackle this again.

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On Wed, May 03, 2006 at 04:43:05PM -0700, Dan Nicholson
wrote:
> 
> "The X fonts were not installed in a location
known to Fontconfig. 
> This prevents Fontconfig from using the poorly rendered
Type 1 fonts
> or the non-scalable bitmapped fonts.  Symlinks were
created from the
> OTF and TTF X font directories to
/usr/share/fonts/X11-{OTF,TTF}. 
> This allows Fontconfig to use the scalable OpenType and
TrueType fonts
> provided by X."

The last line (and this is probably just a preferential
thing):

This allows Fontconfig to use the OpenType and TrueType
fonts provided
by X (which are scalable and higher quality).

> As I said in the previous mail, nothing *needs* to be
done.  The
> DejaVu hint was just one that seemed like a good tweak,
and I thought
> it provided an example of how you can configure
Fontconfig.  Please
> let me know if I'm missing what you implied with X and
Y above.

I implied that the fonts that are automatically aliased to,
say,
"monospace" truly need nothing. The ones that
don't alias need something
more. The reason I brought this up is that if I want a
particular font
package, it's reasonable to assume I want that font for the
aliases as
well. And I'm not considering order of preference in this.
That is
below.

> We could create a custom conf file in /etc/fonts/conf.d
with a
> preference list (I think).  Part of the problem with
playing with the
> conf files that was pointed out by Alexander is that
people don't do
> it.

If someone chooses not to do it, that is their problem. I'm
sure there
are many who would appreciate such notes.

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On 5/3/06, Archaic <archaiclinuxfromscratch.org>
wrote:
> On Wed, May 03, 2006 at 04:43:05PM -0700, Dan Nicholson
wrote:
> >
> > "The X fonts were not installed in a
location known to Fontconfig.
> > This prevents Fontconfig from using the poorly
rendered Type 1 fonts
> > or the non-scalable bitmapped fonts.  Symlinks
were created from the
> > OTF and TTF X font directories to
/usr/share/fonts/X11-{OTF,TTF}.
> > This allows Fontconfig to use the scalable
OpenType and TrueType fonts
> > provided by X."
>
> The last line (and this is probably just a preferential
thing):
>
> This allows Fontconfig to use the OpenType and TrueType
fonts provided
> by X (which are scalable and higher quality).

Fine by me.

> I implied that the fonts that are automatically aliased
to, say,
> "monospace" truly need nothing. The ones
that don't alias need something
> more. The reason I brought this up is that if I want a
particular font
> package, it's reasonable to assume I want that font
for the aliases as
> well.
<snip>

Let me play around with FC some more.  As it is, there
isn't really a
straightforward way to do either step besides just opening
fonts.conf
in an editor and making an entry for your new font.  For
reference, FC
uses an XML based configuration file with matching,
globbing, etc. 
This is a bit out of date, but the online user documentation
explains
this way better than I can and has some samples near the
end.

http://fon
tconfig.org/fontconfig-user.html

--
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