Re: Community distro ?

   Michael Wood wrote:

Two things have really touched a nerve with me recently and
I would like 
to open a discussion.

Firstly: 
[1]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork#hea
d-8c391b3699f3571c2aedfa7cb78adb4623206933

"Feisty artwork will be designed by kwwii -- of Kubuntu
Edgy and KDE
Oxygen Icon fame. He will be working closely with sabdfl in
the design.
Do not expect community involvement in defining this
portion."

This seems to contradict entirely the description of ubuntu
"Ubuntu is a
community developed, linux-based operating system ...."
- Ubuntu.com .


   We've struggled to get a cohesive community-directed art
strategy.
   Despite bringing community art contributors to our
developer summits,
   funding part-time work by community artists, and having a
completely
   open process of contribution, we have not been able to
produce a
   unified theme through a community lead process.
   We found that our approach was resulting in an
environment where new
   artists would show up and expect to be able to lead, from
scratch, a
   completely new theme that was to their taste. There was
no clear
   community lead, but instead multiple fragmented efforts.
   Based on a deep review of our approach, we came to the
conclusion that
   it's extremely difficult to get a "core theme"
that is produced by
   multiple volunteer contributors where there is no
definitive lead. By
   core theme I mean wallpaper, login, splash and boot
splash.
   So, for Feisty, we are saying that there are two ways the
community
   can contribute:
    1. Develop complete themes, which we can evaluate, and
if a theme
   emerges which is clean, consistent, complete, and of high
quality then
   it can be included directly in Ubuntu, but not as the
default. Such a
   theme could become the default in a future release if it
wins
   widespread praise in the community. So far, I have not
seen a theme
   emerge which meets these criteria.
    2. Contribute to the fleshing out of a theme produced by
a single,
   mandated designer. That designer, in this cycle, is Kwii.
Folks who
   want to flesh out the default theme need to follow Kwii's
lead.

So far the Art work for Feisty has been rather doggy in my
opinoin and I
don't hold a huge amount of hope for it getting better. Not
saying that
Kwwii isn't a good artist but I don't see his art suiting
the GNOME
Desktop. It may turn out to be excellent but the discussion,
ideas and
contribution which is provided by having community
involvement is going
to be completely lost.


   We looked everywhere for artists, and in the end hired
Kwii because we
   thought he was the best available.

Secondly, why, with all the information i've been able to
squeeze, won't
ubuntu/canonical consider sponsoring GUADEC (GNOME User And
Developer
European Conference) but  were willing to be Gold Sponsor of
the last
aKadamy  ? (KDE's Conference) especially considering that
GNOME is the
desktop that Ubuntu and Edubuntu uses.


   Consider the total contribution and support we provide,
in terms of
   full time salaries, bugs, patches, conference
sponsorships, we felt
   that we already make a substantial contribution to GNOME
and wanted to
   balance that with a sponsorship of KDE.

These two issues I have seem to be linked by  my feeling
that ubuntu is
an organisation who's community only has a pseudo influence
over
decisions that really matter. It would be in the ubuntu
communities
interest to be a sponsor of GUADEC and to have community
involved art
work.


   In Ubuntu, actions matter. If you really want to make an
art
   contribution, it will be welcomed BUT it will need to be
of world
   class standard and will need to fit in with the work
being done across
   the whole project. I'm not sympathetic to someone upset
that their
   single contribution does not make it in when that
contribution is not
   aligned with the work that is already being done. We
can't achieve
   success if we splinter and try to take a million
different artistic
   lines. That's a tough position, but I think it's a
necessary one.

   Mark

-- 
ubuntu-uklists.ubuntu.com
h
ttps://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.kubuntu
.org/UKTeam/

At the risk of being keelhauled - I gotta say - what he says
does make
sense to be fair 

Chris

On 23/03/07, Mark Shuttleworth <markubuntu.com> wrote:
>    Michael Wood wrote:
>
> Two things have really touched a nerve with me recently
and I would like
> to open a discussion.
>
> Firstly:
> [1]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork#hea
d-8c391b3699f3571c2aedfa7cb78adb4623206933
>
> "Feisty artwork will be designed by kwwii -- of
Kubuntu Edgy and KDE
> Oxygen Icon fame. He will be working closely with
sabdfl in the design.
> Do not expect community involvement in defining this
portion."
>
> This seems to contradict entirely the description of
ubuntu "Ubuntu is a
> community developed, linux-based operating system
...." - Ubuntu.com .
>
>
>    We've struggled to get a cohesive community-directed
art strategy.
>    Despite bringing community art contributors to our
developer summits,
>    funding part-time work by community artists, and
having a completely
>    open process of contribution, we have not been able
to produce a
>    unified theme through a community lead process.
>    We found that our approach was resulting in an
environment where new
>    artists would show up and expect to be able to lead,
from scratch, a
>    completely new theme that was to their taste. There
was no clear
>    community lead, but instead multiple fragmented
efforts.
>    Based on a deep review of our approach, we came to
the conclusion that
>    it's extremely difficult to get a "core
theme" that is produced by
>    multiple volunteer contributors where there is no
definitive lead. By
>    core theme I mean wallpaper, login, splash and boot
splash.
>    So, for Feisty, we are saying that there are two
ways the community
>    can contribute:
>     1. Develop complete themes, which we can evaluate,
and if a theme
>    emerges which is clean, consistent, complete, and of
high quality then
>    it can be included directly in Ubuntu, but not as
the default. Such a
>    theme could become the default in a future release
if it wins
>    widespread praise in the community. So far, I have
not seen a theme
>    emerge which meets these criteria.
>     2. Contribute to the fleshing out of a theme
produced by a single,
>    mandated designer. That designer, in this cycle, is
Kwii. Folks who
>    want to flesh out the default theme need to follow
Kwii's lead.
>
> So far the Art work for Feisty has been rather doggy in
my opinoin and I
> don't hold a huge amount of hope for it getting better.
Not saying that
> Kwwii isn't a good artist but I don't see his art
suiting the GNOME
> Desktop. It may turn out to be excellent but the
discussion, ideas and
> contribution which is provided by having community
involvement is going
> to be completely lost.
>
>
>    We looked everywhere for artists, and in the end
hired Kwii because we
>    thought he was the best available.
>
> Secondly, why, with all the information i've been able
to squeeze, won't
> ubuntu/canonical consider sponsoring GUADEC (GNOME User
And Developer
> European Conference) but  were willing to be Gold
Sponsor of the last
> aKadamy  ? (KDE's Conference) especially considering
that GNOME is the
> desktop that Ubuntu and Edubuntu uses.
>
>
>    Consider the total contribution and support we
provide, in terms of
>    full time salaries, bugs, patches, conference
sponsorships, we felt
>    that we already make a substantial contribution to
GNOME and wanted to
>    balance that with a sponsorship of KDE.
>
> These two issues I have seem to be linked by  my
feeling that ubuntu is
> an organisation who's community only has a pseudo
influence over
> decisions that really matter. It would be in the ubuntu
communities
> interest to be a sponsor of GUADEC and to have
community involved art
> work.
>
>
>    In Ubuntu, actions matter. If you really want to
make an art
>    contribution, it will be welcomed BUT it will need
to be of world
>    class standard and will need to fit in with the work
being done across
>    the whole project. I'm not sympathetic to someone
upset that their
>    single contribution does not make it in when that
contribution is not
>    aligned with the work that is already being done. We
can't achieve
>    success if we splinter and try to take a million
different artistic
>    lines. That's a tough position, but I think it's a
necessary one.
>
>    Mark
>
> --
> ubuntu-uklists.ubuntu.com
> h
ttps://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
> https://wiki.kubuntu
.org/UKTeam/
>

-- 
ubuntu-uklists.ubuntu.com
h
ttps://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.kubuntu
.org/UKTeam/

On 3/23/07, Mark Shuttleworth <markubuntu.com> wrote:
>    Michael Wood wrote:
>
> Two things have really touched a nerve with me recently
and I would like
> to open a discussion.
>
> Firstly:
> [1]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork#hea
d-8c391b3699f3571c2aedfa7cb78adb4623206933
>
> "Feisty artwork will be designed by kwwii -- of
Kubuntu Edgy and KDE
> Oxygen Icon fame. He will be working closely with
sabdfl in the design.
> Do not expect community involvement in defining this
portion."
>
> This seems to contradict entirely the description of
ubuntu "Ubuntu is a
> community developed, linux-based operating system
...." - Ubuntu.com .
>
>
>    We've struggled to get a cohesive community-directed
art strategy.
>    Despite bringing community art contributors to our
developer summits,
>    funding part-time work by community artists, and
having a completely
>    open process of contribution, we have not been able
to produce a
>    unified theme through a community lead process.
>    We found that our approach was resulting in an
environment where new
>    artists would show up and expect to be able to lead,
from scratch, a
>    completely new theme that was to their taste. There
was no clear
>    community lead, but instead multiple fragmented
efforts.
>    Based on a deep review of our approach, we came to
the conclusion that
>    it's extremely difficult to get a "core
theme" that is produced by
>    multiple volunteer contributors where there is no
definitive lead. By
>    core theme I mean wallpaper, login, splash and boot
splash.
>    So, for Feisty, we are saying that there are two
ways the community
>    can contribute:
>     1. Develop complete themes, which we can evaluate,
and if a theme
>    emerges which is clean, consistent, complete, and of
high quality then
>    it can be included directly in Ubuntu, but not as
the default. Such a
>    theme could become the default in a future release
if it wins
>    widespread praise in the community. So far, I have
not seen a theme
>    emerge which meets these criteria.
>     2. Contribute to the fleshing out of a theme
produced by a single,
>    mandated designer. That designer, in this cycle, is
Kwii. Folks who
>    want to flesh out the default theme need to follow
Kwii's lead.
>
> So far the Art work for Feisty has been rather doggy in
my opinoin and I
> don't hold a huge amount of hope for it getting better.
Not saying that
> Kwwii isn't a good artist but I don't see his art
suiting the GNOME
> Desktop. It may turn out to be excellent but the
discussion, ideas and
> contribution which is provided by having community
involvement is going
> to be completely lost.
>
>
>    We looked everywhere for artists, and in the end
hired Kwii because we
>    thought he was the best available.
>
> Secondly, why, with all the information i've been able
to squeeze, won't
> ubuntu/canonical consider sponsoring GUADEC (GNOME User
And Developer
> European Conference) but  were willing to be Gold
Sponsor of the last
> aKadamy  ? (KDE's Conference) especially considering
that GNOME is the
> desktop that Ubuntu and Edubuntu uses.
>
>
>    Consider the total contribution and support we
provide, in terms of
>    full time salaries, bugs, patches, conference
sponsorships, we felt
>    that we already make a substantial contribution to
GNOME and wanted to
>    balance that with a sponsorship of KDE.
>
> These two issues I have seem to be linked by  my
feeling that ubuntu is
> an organisation who's community only has a pseudo
influence over
> decisions that really matter. It would be in the ubuntu
communities
> interest to be a sponsor of GUADEC and to have
community involved art
> work.
>
>
>    In Ubuntu, actions matter. If you really want to
make an art
>    contribution, it will be welcomed BUT it will need
to be of world
>    class standard and will need to fit in with the work
being done across
>    the whole project. I'm not sympathetic to someone
upset that their
>    single contribution does not make it in when that
contribution is not
>    aligned with the work that is already being done. We
can't achieve
>    success if we splinter and try to take a million
different artistic
>    lines. That's a tough position, but I think it's a
necessary one.
>
>    Mark
>
> --
> ubuntu-uklists.ubuntu.com
> h
ttps://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
> https://wiki.kubuntu
.org/UKTeam/
>
As a newbe, albeit aged 75 and had one of the first
Commodore Pets,
all I want from Ubuntu is a good simple easy default package
(giving
me access to open source software) and would be happy to
have artistic
options to tempt me to other things, but only as options
from the
default, and they should be invisible from the default. 
This would
not be splintering - life for Ubuntu is difficult enough
already, and
the default message must be kept simple.  Separate packages
with just
a link might meet the need, but not to be financed.  If they
are that
good they will find acceptors.

-- 
ubuntu-uklists.ubuntu.com
h
ttps://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.kubuntu
.org/UKTeam/

On Fri, 2007-03-23 at 10:17 +0000, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
>    Michael Wood wrote:
> 
> Two things have really touched a nerve with me recently
and I would like 
> to open a discussion.
> 
> Firstly: 
> [1]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork#hea
d-8c391b3699f3571c2aedfa7cb78adb4623206933
> 
> "Feisty artwork will be designed by kwwii -- of
Kubuntu Edgy and KDE
> Oxygen Icon fame. He will be working closely with
sabdfl in the design.
> Do not expect community involvement in defining this
portion."
> 
> This seems to contradict entirely the description of
ubuntu "Ubuntu is a
> community developed, linux-based operating system
...." - Ubuntu.com .
> 
> 
>    We've struggled to get a cohesive community-directed
art strategy.
>    Despite bringing community art contributors to our
developer summits,
>    funding part-time work by community artists, and
having a completely
>    open process of contribution, we have not been able
to produce a
>    unified theme through a community lead process.
>    We found that our approach was resulting in an
environment where new
>    artists would show up and expect to be able to lead,
from scratch, a
>    completely new theme that was to their taste. There
was no clear
>    community lead, but instead multiple fragmented
efforts.
>    Based on a deep review of our approach, we came to
the conclusion that
>    it's extremely difficult to get a "core
theme" that is produced by
>    multiple volunteer contributors where there is no
definitive lead. By
>    core theme I mean wallpaper, login, splash and boot
splash.
>    So, for Feisty, we are saying that there are two
ways the community
>    can contribute:
>     1. Develop complete themes, which we can evaluate,
and if a theme
>    emerges which is clean, consistent, complete, and of
high quality then
>    it can be included directly in Ubuntu, but not as
the default. Such a
>    theme could become the default in a future release
if it wins
>    widespread praise in the community. So far, I have
not seen a theme
>    emerge which meets these criteria.
>     2. Contribute to the fleshing out of a theme
produced by a single,
>    mandated designer. That designer, in this cycle, is
Kwii. Folks who
>    want to flesh out the default theme need to follow
Kwii's lead.
> 
> So far the Art work for Feisty has been rather doggy in
my opinoin and I
> don't hold a huge amount of hope for it getting better.
Not saying that
> Kwwii isn't a good artist but I don't see his art
suiting the GNOME
> Desktop. It may turn out to be excellent but the
discussion, ideas and
> contribution which is provided by having community
involvement is going
> to be completely lost.
> 
> 
>    We looked everywhere for artists, and in the end
hired Kwii because we
>    thought he was the best available.
> 
> Secondly, why, with all the information i've been able
to squeeze, won't
> ubuntu/canonical consider sponsoring GUADEC (GNOME User
And Developer
> European Conference) but  were willing to be Gold
Sponsor of the last
> aKadamy  ? (KDE's Conference) especially considering
that GNOME is the
> desktop that Ubuntu and Edubuntu uses.
> 
> 
>    Consider the total contribution and support we
provide, in terms of
>    full time salaries, bugs, patches, conference
sponsorships, we felt
>    that we already make a substantial contribution to
GNOME and wanted to
>    balance that with a sponsorship of KDE.
> 
> These two issues I have seem to be linked by  my
feeling that ubuntu is
> an organisation who's community only has a pseudo
influence over
> decisions that really matter. It would be in the ubuntu
communities
> interest to be a sponsor of GUADEC and to have
community involved art
> work.
> 
> 
>    In Ubuntu, actions matter. If you really want to
make an art
>    contribution, it will be welcomed BUT it will need
to be of world
>    class standard and will need to fit in with the work
being done across
>    the whole project. I'm not sympathetic to someone
upset that their
>    single contribution does not make it in when that
contribution is not
>    aligned with the work that is already being done. We
can't achieve
>    success if we splinter and try to take a million
different artistic
>    lines. That's a tough position, but I think it's a
necessary one.
> 
>    Mark

Action Man, Mark Anthony and Hamlet in one post?  You don't
see that
very often.

This is quite insightful, when you subject it to a world
class deep
analysis.  If anything might get me thinking about changing
distros,
posts like this might.  But wouldn't that mean that my views
somehow
echo the post?


> -- 
> ubuntu-uklists.ubuntu.com
> h
ttps://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
> https://wiki.kubuntu
.org/UKTeam/


-- 
ubuntu-uklists.ubuntu.com
h
ttps://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.kubuntu
.org/UKTeam/