Some tech questions about Campsite

On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 18:56 +0200, digitalnegociogmail.com
wrote:
> -         I need Campsite for a news site, updated
every single
> minute. Do you think the program will be up to the job?
How the
> program will handle the amount of articles which are
inserted in the
> database everyday, say, three years later, with a large
archive
> behind? Have you collected some benchmarks about the
visits/page views
> in the media that are using your program?
TOL has more than 64.000 articles in archive and campsite
can handle
much more. The limit I know about is in hardware and line.
Thanks to caching of templates the performance is very good
and again,
the load is mostly fixed by upgrading hardware.
In fact you will need a lot of RAM (more than 2GB) and SQL
on separated
server is recomended too.
Campsite is fairly scalable so I believe at this point you
will be
satisfied. 

> -         I don't really like the C publisher program
running in the
> back, but I've seen there is a full fledged PHP
version in the way. So
> I guess previous articles will be preserved in the
transition from the
> old program to the new one, isn't it? (I ask just for
confirming this
> point).
As far as I know, the database part will remain, the change
is only in
the campsite engine that parse templates.
So yes, all content you will insert on current version of
campsite will
be possible to upgrade to the PHP version.

> -         I tested the program in Debian with no
serious problems, but
> I'm planning to hire a dedicated server with an AMD64
cpu, and the
> only OS available in this ISP which takes advantage of
this
> architecture is CentOS 4.3. Is there any issue that can
prevent the
> installation in this OS? If there's some, I can
dismiss the 64bits
> option and install Debian instead, but I'd rather to
put the 15-30%
> plus performance behind Campsite.
we have some ecperience with centos. The changes are not
vital, but you
should prefer dedicated server to some virtual host, because
of
performance. It is also very difficult to make campsite
functional in
environment using cpanel or other administration tools.
This however schould change with PHP only version of
campsite. But it is
too early for me to confirm.

However only for your information:
If you plan to run on dedicated server, I would prefer
Ubuntu/Debian to
centos. If you plan using some SAN disk arrays and possible
cluster
solution, you might prefer not to use centos, but buy
supported RedHat
or SuSE linux (depending on the hardware provider)

And also I will make some marketing for my work  by
recommending
FreeBSD as very good choice, which is out from enterprise
only due to
bad support for clustering and missing drivers for external
disk arrays.

And as a last thing, Dell techsupport recommended me to
install VMWARE
on top of the linux to each server, use VMWARE clustering
solution and
ad guest OS to use whatever you really need, because all
hadrware
support is done through vmware layer and you can easily
install virtual
cluster and if needed simply add new server and expand the
cluster or
move virtual computer to another hardware.

Ondra

Hi Pedro,

Thanks for the good words! I'm glad you liked Campsite and
I'm sure Micz, the
man who did the design (back in 1999!) is even more pleased.
Yes, Campsite is
almost 7 years old. To answer your questions:

> - I need Campsite for a news site, updated every single
minute. Do
> you think the program will be up to the job? How the
program will handle the
> amount of articles which are inserted in the database
everyday, say, three
> years later, with a large archive behind? Have you
collected some benchmarks
> about the visits/page views in the media that are using
your program?
There are 2 big publications running on Campsite: TOL
(www.tol.cz) and Fluter
(www.fluter.de). TOL is running on Campsite since August
2000, so it has a
backlog of 6 years and Campsite is doing well  If you
check both publications
you'll notice the page load time is less than 4 seconds
although they have very
complex templates and big databases.

> - I don't really like the C publisher program running
in the back,
> but I've seen there is a full fledged PHP version in
the way. So I guess
> previous articles will be preserved in the transition
from the old program
> to the new one, isn't it? (I ask just for confirming
this point).
Campsite was made almost 7 years ago, at that time we
didn't have many
alternatives so we chose to implement the template engine in
C++. During the
years it changed a lot, it became multithreaded, templates
are cached in memory
for faster output. The PHP should be ready by November 1st,
although I don't
think it will be faster than the current version. It will be
more scalable
though. Since the version 2.2 all upgrades are automatic and
maintain the whole
archive so from this point of view the upgrade is
transparent to the user.

> - I tested the program in Debian with no serious
problems, but I'm
> planning to hire a dedicated server with an AMD64 cpu,
and the only OS
> available in this ISP which takes advantage of this
architecture is CentOS
> 4.3. Is there any issue that can prevent the
installation in this OS? If
> there's some, I can dismiss the 64bits option and
install Debian instead,
> but I'd rather to put the 15-30% plus performance
behind Campsite.
Campsite installs on CentOS and on 64 bit versions, the only
problems you may
encounter are related to cPanel software, but we managed to
make it work with
it too. In case there is a problem installing Campsite we
can help.

Regards,
Mugur

--- digitalnegociogmail.com wrote:
> Hello! I'm in charge of the future digital edition of
an economic newspaper
> based in Spain, and I've been trying to find a good
newspaper cms for a
> long, long time. I checked many of them, including the
most newspaper
> flavoured Cofax (good, but a Tomcat hell) and Props
(really promising, but
> quite limited yet). In fact, I checked Campsite too,
but discarded it
> because the 'magazine cms' label which seems to be
endorsed to this program.
> 
> A good friend encouraged me to give it a try, so I
managed to install the
> program and check some of its features. The main
conclusion: This is the
> most newspaper oriented application I've ever seen (I
love it!). Those who
> have worked in a newsroom and have tried other
disappointing
> portal/company/product/shopping CMS will understand
what I'm talking about.
> 
> Anyway, I have some questions about your program, so I
ask for your help:
> 
> - I need Campsite for a news site, updated every single
minute. Do
> you think the program will be up to the job? How the
program will handle the
> amount of articles which are inserted in the database
everyday, say, three
> years later, with a large archive behind? Have you
collected some benchmarks
> about the visits/page views in the media that are using
your program?
> 
> - I don't really like the C publisher program running
in the back,
> but I've seen there is a full fledged PHP version in
the way. So I guess
> previous articles will be preserved in the transition
from the old program
> to the new one, isn't it? (I ask just for confirming
this point).
> 
> - I tested the program in Debian with no serious
problems, but I'm
> planning to hire a dedicated server with an AMD64 cpu,
and the only OS
> available in this ISP which takes advantage of this
architecture is CentOS
> 4.3. Is there any issue that can prevent the
installation in this OS? If
> there's some, I can dismiss the 64bits option and
install Debian instead,
> but I'd rather to put the 15-30% plus performance
behind Campsite.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Pedro


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I do not know much about the Athlon, as I am Intel oriented,
but I am
sure the 64 bit architecture does not help much and the
32bit will be ok
for you.
However my experience is, that 1GB of RAM is somethung good
for small or
middle size newspaper. If you build machine for bigger
newspaper, choose
2GB for the beginning.
I also believe if you would need to increase the
performance, good
choice is separating webserver and MySQL server to different
machines.

I personaly believe, that the age of 64bit will come in few
years, may
be two, may be three.

Today I would probably go to Intel pentiumm D procesor based
machine and
fast memory.

Ondra

On Mon, 2006-09-04 at 18:47 +0200, digitalnegociogmail.com
wrote:
> Thank you very much for your kind and prompt answers,
Ondra and Mugur.
> I like FreeBSD. I like the performance of this OS and
the clean
> approach in the packages system -and I like it even
more now I know it
> includes a Campsite port  -. But the
ISP does not accept the 64bits
> option in FreeBSD, so do you think FreeBSD 6.1 (32
bits) can work fine
> on this server?
>  
> Athlon 64 3000+ CPU
> 1GB RAM
> 
> 250 GB HD
> 
>  
> It is not a terrific machine, and it will have to host
both Apache and
> Mysql (BTW, as far as I know there is no cPanel control
in the
> server). I would be really glad if Campsite can handle
50.000
> visits/day in the first year of the online newspaper
life (being more
> realistic, I guess we will only get 30.000).
>  
> 
> Your comments, opnions and help in this process (in
this media birth)
> will be really appreciated.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks, 
> Pedro

64 bit will give you something like 10-15% speed increase.
As Ondra said, it
would be much better if the database was installed
separately on another server
because actually that server will take 70-80% of the load.
The template
processing takes few resources, especially because the
templates are cached in
memory. Campsite doesn't have yet a page cache mechanism
(it will have in 3.0)
so for each request it queries the database.

If you go with one server I recommend 2 GB of RAM also, but
1GB should be
enough for the beginning, first year, first few months,
depends on the size of
your publication and the rate of new articles. The item that
dictates the
server memory is not really Campsite itself but the size of
the database. If
your database can not fit entirely in RAM then you have a
problem.

Regards,
Mugur

--- Ondra Koutek <koutekotol.org> wrote:
> I do not know much about the Athlon, as I am Intel
oriented, but I am
> sure the 64 bit architecture does not help much and the
32bit will be ok
> for you.
> However my experience is, that 1GB of RAM is somethung
good for small or
> middle size newspaper. If you build machine for bigger
newspaper, choose
> 2GB for the beginning.
> I also believe if you would need to increase the
performance, good
> choice is separating webserver and MySQL server to
different machines.
> 
> I personaly believe, that the age of 64bit will come in
few years, may
> be two, may be three.
> 
> Today I would probably go to Intel pentiumm D procesor
based machine and
> fast memory.
> 
> Ondra
> 
> On Mon, 2006-09-04 at 18:47 +0200, digitalnegociogmail.com
wrote:
> > Thank you very much for your kind and prompt
answers, Ondra and Mugur.
> > I like FreeBSD. I like the performance of this OS
and the clean
> > approach in the packages system -and I like it
even more now I know it
> > includes a Campsite port  -. But the
ISP does not accept the 64bits
> > option in FreeBSD, so do you think FreeBSD 6.1 (32
bits) can work fine
> > on this server?
> >  
> > Athlon 64 3000+ CPU
> > 1GB RAM
> > 
> > 250 GB HD
> > 
> >  
> > It is not a terrific machine, and it will have to
host both Apache and
> > Mysql (BTW, as far as I know there is no cPanel
control in the
> > server). I would be really glad if Campsite can
handle 50.000
> > visits/day in the first year of the online
newspaper life (being more
> > realistic, I guess we will only get 30.000).
> >  
> > 
> > Your comments, opnions and help in this process
(in this media birth)
> > will be really appreciated.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Thanks, 
> > Pedro
> 
> 


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I prefer for a long time Apache 2.x, which is stable and
should have
better performance than 1.3
Also I would start with one server. Why to pay more?
The templating process takes some time and your described
hardware
should handle quite well the magazine for at least 6 or may
be even 12
month.
As migrating database is very simple, I would not go for
second server
unles there is a reason.

Also note, that in FreeBSD the default MySQL storage is
/var/db while
campsite goes to /usr/local
What I did was moving the MySQL storage to /usr/local/var/db
which
allowed me to use the big partition for both, attachments,
images,
templates and data. because you think about moving the
database away
from the server in the future, I believe it is good to think
about them
when designing the FreeBSD volumes.

I also recommend to keep enough space in /var for logs. I
designed one
of my production servers badly and now I had to redirect
/log
to /usr/local/var/log but I do not like this solution and
after I
reinstall the OS, I will design the /var bigger.

Ondra

On Mon, 2006-09-04 at 20:09 +0200, digitalnegociogmail.com
wrote:
> Hardware upgrade will be no problem, as well as a web
server/database
> separation, in a short or mid term basis. 
>  
> The number of daily articles (mostly news wires):   
50-70
> The number of daily pictures:                          
      10-30
> The number of weekly features:                         
     5-10
>  
> When the database does no fit into memory, I can hire
another computer
> (2GB RAM) only to handle the database load.
>  
> In the other hand, I planned to install:
>  
> Apache 1.3
> PHP5
> Mysql 5
>  
> Is this setup ok?

Setup is ok, but why use Apache 1.3? It's older, no
improvements and fewer
features than 2.0.

Mugur

--- digitalnegociogmail.com wrote:
> Hardware upgrade will be no problem, as well as a web
server/database
> separation, in a short or mid term basis.
> 
> The number of daily articles (mostly news wires):   
50-70
> The number of daily pictures:                          
      10-30
> The number of weekly features:                         
     5-10
> 
> When the database does no fit into memory, I can hire
another computer (2GB
> RAM) only to handle the database load.
> 
> In the other hand, I planned to install:
> 
> Apache 1.3
> PHP5
> Mysql 5
> 
> Is this setup ok?
> 


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