bugs.centos.org (was RE: Re: kernel-2.6.9-42.37.EL.c4test is available for i686 and x

Karanbir Singh wrote:
> Another issue I want to point out here is that please
report all
issues
> with these testing kernels upstream at http://bugzilla.redhat.co
m/
> 
> And if you have any issues - please do report them, or
pass them on
here
> so we can verify and report upstream.

For the benefit of everyone, can you please clarify what
bugs.centos.org
is for?  I see lots of open kernel/hardware bugs reported
there and
other things that should either be closed
"wontfix" and/or reported
upstream.  

Would you like to have volunteers to step up and help manage
the bug
tracker? (ie, more clearly define what the centos bug
tracker is for,
and give some more people the ability to close bugs)

Greg
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On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 11:50 -0700, Greg Swallow wrote:
> Karanbir Singh wrote:
> > Another issue I want to point out here is that
please report all
> issues
> > with these testing kernels upstream at http://bugzilla.redhat.co
m/
> > 
> > And if you have any issues - please do report
them, or pass them on
> here
> > so we can verify and report upstream.
> 
> For the benefit of everyone, can you please clarify
what bugs.centos.org
> is for?  I see lots of open kernel/hardware bugs
reported there and
> other things that should either be closed
"wontfix" and/or reported
> upstream.  
> 
> Would you like to have volunteers to step up and help
manage the bug
> tracker? (ie, more clearly define what the centos bug
tracker is for,
> and give some more people the ability to close bugs)
> 
> Greg

Well ... it is a bug tracker, however we don't have paid
support :P

It is really a tool for people to say, hey I have that
problem to, and
for other users to help.

CentOS requires the community to help each other, so we
expect other
users to help by commenting on bugs and helping users to fix
problems.

The Developers do work on bugs and close them as we can ...
though there
are bugs that can be closed, etc.

Certainly there is a need for some "Trusted
people" to manage CentOS
Bugs ... and we would consider giving access to certain
people to make
that happen.

Thanks,
Johnny Hughes
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Johnny Hughes wrote:
> Well ... it is a bug tracker, however we don't have
paid support :P

I think you wrote one guideline there, if you really mean
that it is a
bug tracker and not a support tracker:
1. The bug tracker is for reporting bugs.  Requests for
support (How do
I...?) are not appropriate here, and will receive more
widespread
attention on the Centos mailing list at
http
://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos.  

> It is really a tool for people to say, hey I have that
problem to, and
> for other users to help.

Sure, and once it is reported, it is searchable.  But it's
better to
close off a bug and direct the reporter to the appropriate
place
(upstream bug tracker, mailing list) so that people who
search for the
same problem see the appropriate response.

> CentOS requires the community to help each other, so we
expect other
> users to help by commenting on bugs and helping users
to fix problems.

That sounds like a support tracker, as opposed to a bug
tracker.
Wouldn't the mailing list be better place for support?  The
bug tracker
IMO is more suited for packages that are under CentOS's
control (ie,
dev, centosplus, extras).  I think bugs reported against
upstream
provided packages should be acknowledged with a standard
response
suggesting the user search the upstream bugzilla (and to
report there if
not already reported), and then immediately closed
"WONTFIX".

> The Developers do work on bugs and close them as we can
... though
there
> are bugs that can be closed, etc.
> 
> Certainly there is a need for some "Trusted
people" to manage CentOS
> Bugs ... and we would consider giving access to certain
people to make
> that happen.

I'd like to help, but would like to have some idea what is
appropriate
for the bug tracker and what isn't first.

Thanks,

Greg
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Greg Swallow wrote:
> Karanbir Singh wrote:
>> Another issue I want to point out here is that
please report all
> issues
>> with these testing kernels upstream at http://bugzilla.redhat.co
m/
>>
>> And if you have any issues - please do report them,
or pass them on
> here
>> so we can verify and report upstream.
> 
> For the benefit of everyone, can you please clarify
what bugs.centos.org
> is for?  

its to report issues, however these testing kernels are a
special case.

these testing kernels are being built after speaking with
the guys 
upstream and the only reason why I did that is to get wider
testing done 
on some of the patches before they go into the distro.

I fail to see what the problem with that might be ?

- KB
-- 
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2522219icq
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Karanbir Singh wrote:
> Greg Swallow wrote:
> > Karanbir Singh wrote:
> >> Another issue I want to point out here is that
please report all
> > issues
> >> with these testing kernels upstream at http://bugzilla.redhat.co
m/
> >>
> >> And if you have any issues - please do report
them, or pass them on
> > here
> >> so we can verify and report upstream.
> >
> > For the benefit of everyone, can you please
clarify what
bugs.centos.org
> > is for?
> 
> its to report issues, however these testing kernels are
a special
case.
> 
> these testing kernels are being built after speaking
with the guys
> upstream and the only reason why I did that is to get
wider testing
done
> on some of the patches before they go into the distro.
> 
> I fail to see what the problem with that might be ?

No problem, I was agreeing with you about reporting bugs
upstream for
packages that are just rebuilds of upstream, including the
testing
kernels.  Maybe I should have made a new subject for the
thread rather
than half-hijacking the other one.

Greg
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Greg Swallow wrote:
>> its to report issues, however these testing kernels
are a special
> 
> No problem, I was agreeing with you about reporting
bugs upstream for
> packages that are just rebuilds of upstream, including
the testing
> kernels.  Maybe I should have made a new subject for
the thread rather
> than half-hijacking the other one.

Actually, that is mostly true - but not completely. What we
would really 
prefer is if issues were reported on bugs.centos.org and
then a triaging 
team could manage and work with the developers on resolving
/ closing 
them properly.

The reason why the pref to not upstream bugzilla is that in
cases there 
might be a local centos induced problem, and we would never
know about 
those - it has happened. Also, upstream is completely
oblivious about 
CentOS and the process we follow etc, I dont blame them for
it. So the 
decision to take a report upstream should really be from the
CentOS bug 
handing team, most users should try and report issues there.

Add to that there are packages in the CentOS infrastructure
that dont 
come from upstream, we use a different package manager, we
use a 
different mirror network and are a lot more dependent on the
community 
for feedback and support - reporting issues to
bugs.centos.org is really 
the right way to do things.

Now, I mentioned two things here - a Triaging and a bug
handing team. 
Neither of which exist. Both both of which _should_. And
members will 
need to come from the users community and the existing
developers. So if 
people are interested, feel free to step forward. And now
will be a good 
time.

Btw, while I am still doing recruitment... I am still hoping
that 
someone will step forward and offer to help with the
Oracle's Linux 
offering -> CentOS migration guide...

- KB
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On 1/5/07, Karanbir Singh <mail-listskaran.org> wrote:
> Greg Swallow wrote:
> >> its to report issues, however these testing
kernels are a special
> >
> > No problem, I was agreeing with you about
reporting bugs upstream for
> > packages that are just rebuilds of upstream,
including the testing
> > kernels.  Maybe I should have made a new subject
for the thread rather
> > than half-hijacking the other one.
>
>
> Now, I mentioned two things here - a Triaging and a bug
handing team.
> Neither of which exist. Both both of which _should_.
And members will
> need to come from the users community and the existing
developers. So if
> people are interested, feel free to step forward. And
now will be a good
> time.
>

Ping!


-- 
Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator
How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a
good deed
in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of
Venice"
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Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
>> Now, I mentioned two things here - a Triaging and a
bug handing team.
>> Neither of which exist. Both both of which
_should_. And members will
>> need to come from the users community and the
existing developers. So if
>> people are interested, feel free to step forward.
And now will be a good
>> time.
>>
> 
> Ping!

The process has been started, expect a visit from the men in
black soon..

And thanks for offering to help 


-- 
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2522219icq
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Karanbir Singh wrote:
> Greg Swallow wrote:
>> Karanbir Singh wrote:
>>> Another issue I want to point out here is that
please report all
>> issues
>>> with these testing kernels upstream at http://bugzilla.redhat.co
m/
>>>
>>> And if you have any issues - please do report
them, or pass them on
>> here
>>> so we can verify and report upstream.
>>
>> For the benefit of everyone, can you please clarify
what bugs.centos.org
>> is for?  
> 
> its to report issues, however these testing kernels are
a special case.

"issues" is one of those weasel words, whose
meaning I simply do not 
understand. Can you pleas expand on what you mean this time?




-- 

Cheers
John

-- spambait
1aaaaaaacoco.merseine.nu  Z1aaaaaaacoco.merseine.nu

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John Summerfield wrote:
>>
>> its to report issues, however these testing kernels
are a special case.
> 
> "issues" is one of those weasel words, whose
meaning I simply do not 
> understand. Can you pleas expand on what you mean this
time?
> 

The Cambridge dictionary defines it as : "a subject or
problem which 
people are thinking and talking about"

seems quite clear to me.

- KB
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