rhwas 5 work?

are there people working on getting the rhwas 5 rpms builtup
for 
centosplus 5?  the gophp5 people are starting to have an
impact and drupal 
users are wanting php 5.2, which i was surprised to see in
the rhwas srpms 
directory.  the users might even be willing to be testers
since they're on 
a virtual server.
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Joe Pruett wrote:
> are there people working on getting the rhwas 5 rpms
builtup for 
> centosplus 5?  the gophp5 people are starting to have
an impact and 
> drupal users are wanting php 5.2, which i was surprised
to see in the 
> rhwas srpms directory.  the users might even be willing
to be testers 
> since they're on a virtual server.

Yes, been working on the rhwas stuff for centos5, and I was
going to post an 
email on this list about that tomorrow.

Some of the components, like php5/mysql/httpd/mod_perl etc
build with no issues 
- however, the Java bits are a bit tricky. And to be honest,
I could use some 
help from people who know a bit more about the situation.

We cant build and ship out the java stuff without using some
jre / jvm - IcedTea 
is not quite there yet. And I dont think we can actually
ship any jdk due to 
licensing issues. Could we ?

- KB

And, btw - gophp5 people are idiots. Feel free to tell them
that. If only this 
much energy was spent on educating the script kiddies on
proper coding 
methodologies and audit process etc, we wont have php as,
imho, the largest 
security liability in the Linux server world today.

-- 
Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ :
2522219icq
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Karanbir Singh wrote:
> Joe Pruett wrote:
>> are there people working on getting the rhwas 5
rpms builtup for 
>> centosplus 5?  the gophp5 people are starting to
have an impact and 
>> drupal users are wanting php 5.2, which i was
surprised to see in the 
>> rhwas srpms directory.  the users might even be
willing to be testers 
>> since they're on a virtual server.
> 
> Yes, been working on the rhwas stuff for centos5, and I
was going to 
> post an email on this list about that tomorrow.
> 
> Some of the components, like php5/mysql/httpd/mod_perl
etc build with no 
> issues - however, the Java bits are a bit tricky. And
to be honest, I 
> could use some help from people who know a bit more
about the situation.
> 
> We cant build and ship out the java stuff without using
some jre / jvm - 
> IcedTea is not quite there yet. And I dont think we can
actually ship 
> any jdk due to licensing issues. Could we ?

I'm sure you can ship jre, always have "with your
application." Wrt jdk, 
I'd check the licence with the latest, and if in doubt ask
Sun or ship 
something to download it and install it from Sun's site.






-- 

Cheers
John

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On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 2:02 AM, Karanbir Singh
<mail-listskaran.org> wrote:
>  We cant build and ship out the java stuff without
using some jre / jvm - IcedTea
>  is not quite there yet. And I dont think we can
actually ship any jdk due to
>  licensing issues. Could we ?

I know that Dag used to ship jre with the mozilla plugin.
And that
would be a huge improvement, given that IcedTea-plguin
simply doesn't
work for 3/4 of the things I want java in my browser for.

For all I know, things could be much different for jdk - but
something
like "install the jdk rpm that you get from Sun"
and then assume it
exists in /usr/java/latest is IMNSHO better than nothing.

regards,
  Bent
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Karanbir Singh wrote:
> We cant build and ship out the java stuff without using
some jre / jvm - 
> IcedTea is not quite there yet. And I dont think we can
actually ship any 
> jdk due to licensing issues. Could we ?

openjdk6 is available from Fedora 9 - but as their wiki page
says:

"Sun has licensed the OpenJDK trademark for use in
Fedora."

<htt
p://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Java>

So I'm not sure if that one can be used without problems.
And it is not
"Java compatible" yet (probably meaning that it
hasn't been certified by
Sun).

Cheers,

Ralph

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On Thu, 2008-03-27 at 11:21 +0000, Karanbir Singh wrote:
> Ralph Angenendt wrote:
> > So I'm not sure if that one can be used without
problems. And it is not
> > "Java compatible" yet (probably meaning
that it hasn't been certified by
> > Sun).
> 
> Right, and I dont quite think its there yet

IcedTea certainly seems closer to production than OpenJDK,
which is
ironic considering that IcedTea is the *next* version.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams <ivazqueznetgmail.com>

PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed

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On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 7:02 PM, Karanbir Singh
<mail-listskaran.org> wrote:
> Joe Pruett wrote:
>  > are there people working on getting the rhwas 5
rpms builtup for
>  > centosplus 5?  the gophp5 people are starting to
have an impact and
>  > drupal users are wanting php 5.2, which i was
surprised to see in the
>  > rhwas srpms directory.  the users might even be
willing to be testers
>  > since they're on a virtual server.
>
>  Yes, been working on the rhwas stuff for centos5, and
I was going to post an
>  email on this list about that tomorrow.
>
>  Some of the components, like php5/mysql/httpd/mod_perl
etc build with no issues
>  - however, the Java bits are a bit tricky. And to be
honest, I could use some
>  help from people who know a bit more about the
situation.
>
>  We cant build and ship out the java stuff without
using some jre / jvm - IcedTea
>  is not quite there yet. And I dont think we can
actually ship any jdk due to
>  licensing issues. Could we ?
>

Java items require a contract and permission to ship from
each of the
vendors (IBM, BEA, Sun). Part of this comes from the
overlying Sun
contract that IBM/BEA have with Sun to use the Java
trademark, and
some come from usual business practices. With the
application itself
licensing is also involved, but that seems to be limited in
some ways.
Blech... every time I have had to deal with this in the
past... the
lawyers have to work it out first.

-- 
Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator
How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a
good deed
in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of
Venice"
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On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Karanbir Singh
<mail-listskaran.org> wrote:
> Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
>  > Java items require a contract and permission to
ship from each of the
>  > vendors (IBM, BEA, Sun). Part of this comes from
the overlying Sun
>  > contract that IBM/BEA have with Sun to use the
Java trademark, and
>  > some come from usual business practices. With the
application itself
>  > licensing is also involved, but that seems to be
limited in some ways.
>  > Blech... every time I have had to deal with this
in the past... the
>  > lawyers have to work it out first.
>
>  Considering we dont have any lawyers, what would the
next step be ?
>

It would be probably contacting Sun, IBM, BEA to find out
what is
required for us to ship their RPM with our stuff. They would
probably
send a long legalese document that some 'official' body has
to sign so
that they can revoke our shipping their packages if we
violate
something like their patents, trademark, time of day, etc.
Then we get
a lawyer to evaluate that document (or just wish and pray
and sign
it), and decide if whatever CentOS organization can sign
away its
second kin and third cousins once removed to ship the
packages.

Which all probably relates to whether there is an
organization that
Sun, IBM, BEA, etc consider that they can make a business
contract
with.

Anyway thats my guess but I am running on little sleep.


-- 
Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator
How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a
good deed
in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of
Venice"
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>> Joe Pruett wrote:
>> > are there people working on getting the rhwas
5 rpms builtup for
>> > centosplus 5?  the gophp5 people are starting
to have an impact and
>> > drupal users are wanting php 5.2, which i was
surprised to see in the
>> > rhwas srpms directory.  the users might even
be willing to be testers
>> > since they're on a virtual server.

since i started this and was really looking for php support,
would it be 
possible to release all the other packages from rhwas that
did compile 
easily?  i was able to build just the php 5.2 rpm myself and
it seems to 
install fine, so it seems like the rest of the non-java
stuff should be 
fine as well.  holding it all up for the java licensing
issue seems like 
it could be a long wait...
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Karanbir Singh wrote:
> Joe Pruett wrote:
>> are there people working on getting the rhwas 5
rpms builtup for 
>> centosplus 5?  the gophp5 people are starting to
have an impact and 
>> drupal users are wanting php 5.2, which i was
surprised to see in the 
>> rhwas srpms directory.  the users might even be
willing to be testers 
>> since they're on a virtual server.
> 
> Yes, been working on the rhwas stuff for centos5, and I
was going to 
> post an email on this list about that tomorrow.
> 
> Some of the components, like php5/mysql/httpd/mod_perl
etc build with no 
> issues - however, the Java bits are a bit tricky. And
to be honest, I 
> could use some help from people who know a bit more
about the situation.
> 
> We cant build and ship out the java stuff without using
some jre / jvm - 
> IcedTea is not quite there yet. And I dont think we can
actually ship 
> any jdk due to licensing issues. Could we ?
> 
> - KB
> 
> And, btw - gophp5 people are idiots. Feel free to tell
them that. If 
> only this much energy was spent on educating the script
kiddies on 
> proper coding methodologies and audit process etc, we
wont have php as, 
> imho, the largest security liability in the Linux
server world today.
> 

My take on this is that we should build and ship the non
java bits of 
this now ... and wait for openjdk to be able to produce the
java bits.

The whole issue is that to ship Sun Java, we have to
indemnify Sun and 
assume responsibility for things that I don't have the money
for.  Mark 
Shuttleworth has a bit more money than me, so we will need
to wait for 
OpenJDK to really be Java to distribute those things I
think.  All the 
other Javas are really copies of Sun Java too.

Thanks,
Johnny Hughes




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