VICAR file r/w - status

It was just over one year ago i volunteered to add VICAR
format 
read/write capability to Cinepaint.  Turns out that
volunteering to do 
something during the busy holiday season and while one is
involved with 
writing papers on exciting astronomical discoveries, is not
a good 
idea.    For months i hadn't done much, but now i have
brushed aside 
other things to get back to work on this.   

Believe it or not, after 2.5 years of Cassini in orbit
around Saturn, 
most Cassini scientists still don't have an easy standalone
handy tool 
to look at the raw VICAR images.  We use complicated web
apps and clumsy 
GUI programs that look like they were written by scientists.
  I hacked 
XV to read VICAR; that's the closest to a handy tool we have
for now.  
There are a lot of things XV is no good at.     Those of us
doing daily 
production work (e.g. cover image for December National
Geographic) use 
GIMP and like it.   Of course it's only 8 bit/channel.   So,
there still 
exists demand for Cinepaint with VICAR, at least where i
work.   I don't 
know how many other potential user there are for this
feature, but it is 
worth doing.   So i resume this work.

Now, exactly where to start?   add VICAR to  Glasgow 0.1
since it's the 
fresh new thing?  Or the  latest CVS of Cinepaint or some
particular 
past snapshot?  


-- 
Daren Scot Wilson
Boulder, CO




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Am 27.12.06, 00:57 -0700 schrieb Daren Scot Wilson:

> It was just over one year ago i volunteered to add
VICAR format 
> read/write capability to Cinepaint.  Turns out that
volunteering to do 
> something during the busy holiday season and while one
is involved with 
> writing papers on exciting astronomical discoveries, is
not a good 
> idea.    For months i hadn't done much, but now i have
brushed aside 
> other things to get back to work on this.   
> 
> Believe it or not, after 2.5 years of Cassini in orbit
around Saturn, 
> most Cassini scientists still don't have an easy
standalone handy tool 
> to look at the raw VICAR images.  We use complicated
web apps and clumsy 
> GUI programs that look like they were written by
scientists.   I hacked 
> XV to read VICAR; that's the closest to a handy tool we
have for now.  
> There are a lot of things XV is no good at.     Those
of us doing daily 
> production work (e.g. cover image for December National
Geographic) use 
> GIMP and like it.   Of course it's only 8 bit/channel. 
 So, there still 
> exists demand for Cinepaint with VICAR, at least where
i work.   I don't 
> know how many other potential user there are for this
feature, but it is 
> worth doing.   So i resume this work.
> 
> Now, exactly where to start?   add VICAR to  Glasgow
0.1 since it's the 
> fresh new thing?  Or the  latest CVS of Cinepaint or
some particular 
> past snapshot?  
> 
> 
> -- 
> Daren Scot Wilson
> Boulder, CO
 
Daren,

Glasgow is in alpha state and the 0.1 a technology preview.

Gtk CinePaint is going gtk2. A release candidate resides in
the Developers 
Attic on the SourceForge download area. But any other
release should be 
fine too for writing plug-ins. Tutorials and hints can be
found on:
http://cinepaint.bigasterisk.com/CinePaintDocumentation
int the section Developer Documentation .

A good starting point might be th ppm plug-in as it supports
many 8/16-bit 
ints and 32-bit float precission types. Considering to
publish the code 
under BSD/MIT could make it more easy to integrate it into
Glasgow.

If you hit problems write to the list or to me personally. I
will try to 
answere as soon as possible.

regards
Kai-Uwe Behrmann
--
development for color management 
www.behrmann.name + www.oyranos.org + www.cinepaint.org


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Daren,

> It was just over one year ago i volunteered to add
VICAR format 
> read/write capability to Cinepaint.  

Glad to hear from you. I was thinking about VICAR. My friend
who 
designed the Mars Pathfinder flight software was here last
week for my 
birthday.

 > I hacked
> XV to read VICAR; that's the closest to a handy tool we
have for now.  
> There are a lot of things XV is no good at.     Those
of us doing daily 
> production work (e.g. cover image for December National
Geographic) use 
> GIMP and like it.   Of course it's only 8 bit/channel. 
 So, there still 
> exists demand for Cinepaint with VICAR  

Are you using xv VICAR now? Do you convert files using xv or
do you have 
a GIMP plug-in for VICAR?

> Now, exactly where to start?   add VICAR to  Glasgow
0.1 since it's the 
> fresh new thing?  

If you have a GIMP plug-in it would be trivial to port to
CinePaint Film 
Gimp. Although not binary compatible, many GIMP plug-ins can
be built 
for CinePaint without change. You could use the legacy Film
Gimp API 
supported by Kai-Uwe. Or if you want to work with me you
could try the 
new Glasgow img_img plug-in API. I'd have to walk you
through that. 
Either way, 95% of the code would remain the same. Not a big
deal to do 
both. If you can reuse your VICAR code from xv it should go
pretty quick.

Don't use the Glasgow GUI plug-in API. That's a temporary
hack pending 
integration with the img_img API. The img_img program is
command-line 
tool and therefore easier to test and debug than with a GUI.
The design 
goals for the img_img API are to make it easier and faster
than the Film 
Gimp API.

What would you like to do?

Robin
--
CinePaint.org

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Robin Rowe wrote:
> Daren,
>
> Glad to hear from you. I was thinking about VICAR. My
friend who 
> designed the Mars Pathfinder flight software was here
last week for my 
> birthday.
>
>   
Pathfinder, like all the Mars missions, is fantastic! WIth
all the Mars 
missions, i can't keep 'em all straight. So much tough
competition for 
us Cassini folk!

> Are you using xv VICAR now? Do you convert files using
xv or do you have 
> a GIMP plug-in for VICAR?
>
>   
I never attempted a GIMP plug-in though i considered it
briefly in 2003. 
Due to 8 bit/channel limitations mainly, but also didn't
want to spend 
time of something we couldn't use for at least some
production work. 
OTOH, i did hack XV though it is just as limited to
8b/channel. But 
then, the boss _asked_ for a vicar-educted XV.

So far only the boss (Dr. Porco) uses the hacked XV.
Sometimes others, 
even I, use it to have quick looks at raw vicar files. XV is
really 
aged, clumsy by current standards. Normally we use an
in-house web app, 
a complicated but perfectly customized tool for database
searching, 
production work, science and whatnot.


>> Now, exactly where to start?   add VICAR to 
Glasgow 0.1 since it's the 
>> fresh new thing?  
>>     
>
> If you have a GIMP plug-in it would be trivial to port
to CinePaint Film 
> Gimp. Although not binary compatible, many GIMP
plug-ins can be built 
> for CinePaint without change. You could use the legacy
Film Gimp API 
> supported by Kai-Uwe. Or if you want to work with me
you could try the 
> new Glasgow img_img plug-in API. I'd have to walk you
through that. 
> Either way, 95% of the code would remain the same. Not
a big deal to do 
> both. If you can reuse your VICAR code from xv it
should go pretty quick.
>
> Don't use the Glasgow GUI plug-in API. That's a
temporary hack pending 
> integration with the img_img API. The img_img program
is command-line 
> tool and therefore easier to test and debug than with a
GUI. The design 
> goals for the img_img API are to make it easier and
faster than the Film 
> Gimp API.
>
> What would you like to do?
>
> Robin
> --
> CinePaint.org
>
>   
Which CinePaints are people using in the real world?

WIth Glasgow young and evolving, though i'd like to educate
it in 
matters of VICAR, probably should wait a bit.

I'll work on getting VICAR into the next version of the
current 
Cinepaint, with the Film Gimp API. I'm guessing that would
be more 
useful to more CinePaint users in the short term.

One question: what to do with all the extra metadata of
VICAR images? 
Stuff like telemetry times, uplink
mumbo-jumbo - to show it all in some window? I'm not sure
how this would 
be in comparison to whatever metadata appears in the other
image formats.

- daren w

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Daren,

Am 04.01.2007 um 06:15 schrieb Daren Scot Wilson:
>
> I'll work on getting VICAR into the next version of the
current
> Cinepaint, with the Film Gimp API. I'm guessing that
would be more
> useful to more CinePaint users in the short term.

Possibly allready january. There are not much bigger bugs
left to do so.

> One question: what to do with all the extra metadata of
VICAR images?
> Stuff like telemetry times, uplink
> mumbo-jumbo - to show it all in some window? I'm not
sure how this 
> would
> be in comparison to whatever metadata appears in the
other image 
> formats.

We did not yet include, or take over, such metadata API.

Robin,
could you get the appropriate code out of the studio you
tould some 
time ago?

Daren,
Do you need to write out such information or just to display
them?
For providing a gui in plug-ins we recently used FLTK to
minimize the 
effort
of porting to Glasgow.

kind regards
Kai-Uwe Behrmann


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Daren,

> Which CinePaints are people using in the real world?

100% Film Gimp. The Glasgow software is very rough, just had
its first 
alpha release last week.

> I'll work on getting VICAR into the next version of the
current 
> Cinepaint, with the Film Gimp API. I'm guessing that
would be more 
> useful to more CinePaint users in the short term.

Correct.

> One question: what to do with all the extra metadata of
VICAR images? 
> Stuff like telemetry times, uplink
> mumbo-jumbo - to show it all in some window? I'm not
sure how this would 
> be in comparison to whatever metadata appears in the
other image formats.

The Film Gimp API doesn't have metadata support. We made an
attempt to 
add the GIMP 'parasite' metadata-handling code to the Film
Gimp API, but 
as I recall we gave up on it as too hard. A film studio in
bond hacked 
the DPX Film Gimp plug-in to pass metadata (the frame #) via
the image 
window title bar, but I never got the code from them
although I tried.

The img_img API supports metadata but is still evolving.

Robin




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