Why

I DO NOT BELIEVE IN SOMETHING LIKE A GOD, BECAUSE OF THE REASONS STATED BELOW:
1)IN SCIENCE EVERYTHING MUST HAVE A REASON. SO WHAT SHOULD THE REASON OF OUR
CREATION BE ? MOST PEOPLE SAY GOD IS TESTING US. WHEN GOD IS ALMIGHTY HE SHOULD
KNOW THE TEST RESULTS, WHY IS HE TESTING WHEN HE ALREADY KNOWS THE RESULTS ? SO
THAT COULD NOT BE THE REASON. IT MAY ALSO BE SAID 'TO PROVE HIS ALMIGHTYNESS',
BUT THE QUESTION HERE IS 'TO WHOM ?'. SO WHEN THERE IS NO REASON THERE COULD NOT
BE A RESULT. OUR CREATION COULD ONLY BE BY CHANCE, BUT THEN THERE IS NO GOD
NEEDED. MOST PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT THIS CHANCE IS VERY VERY LOW. YES INDEED,
BUT THIS CHANCE MUST HAVE BEEN OCCURED SO THAT WE ARE NOW ABLE TO SAY THIS. IF
THIS WAS NOT THE CASE THEN WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SAY THIS, BUT IN THIS CASE
ALSO EVERYTHING IS NORMAL. IF YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER DIDN'T DO THAT THING EXACT
IN THIS PERIOD (48 HOURS)(YOU KNOW..) YOU WOULD NOT EXIST, BUT IT WOULD NOT
MATTER, BECAUSE NOBODY WOULD NOTICE THAT YOU DO NOT EXIST, BECAUSE THAT IS
NORMAL. SO IF WE DIDN'T EXIST WHO WOULD NOTICE
IT....
2) MOST RELIGIONS SAY WE ARE ONGOING A TEST; WHEN WE DO GOOD THINGS WE WILL GO
TO HEAVEN (RESULT 1), WHEN WE DO BAD THINGS WE WILL GO TO HELL (RESULT 2). ALSO
IN BUDDISM, THERE IS A RESULT WHICH WILL AFFECT OUR NEXT LIFE (LIVES). IN A TEST
THERE ARE PARAMETERS (INPUTS) WHICH COULD AFFECT THE TEST RESULTS (OUTPUTS).
WHEN ALL THE INITIAL PARAMETERS ARE THE SAME THE RESULT IS ALSO TO BE THE SAME
(LOGIC). OR LET'S SAY IT IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN THERE ARE TWO OR MORE RESULTS,
NORMALLY WE LOOK WHAT HAS CHANGED (PARAMETERS-INPUTS). FOR EXAMPLE PURE WATER
(PURITY IS A PARAMETER, BECAUSE WITH INCREASING SALT CONCENTRATION THE BOILING
POINT ALSO INCREASES) HAS A BOILING POINT AT 100°C WHEN THE AIR PRESSURE IS 1
ATM (HERE THE AIR PRESSURE IS ANOTHER PARAMETER, BECAUSE WITH INCREASING AIR
PRESSURE THE BOILING POINT DECREASES). SCIENTIFIC TESTS COULD ONLY BE MADE,
BECAUSE THE TEST ARE REPEATABLE. WHEN YOU REPEAT THIS TEST 1000 TIMES YOU WILL
GET 1000 TIMES THE SAME RESULT (BOILING POINT =
100°C) (OTHERWISE NOBODY WOULD THRUST SCIENCE). IF THIS IS NOT THE CASE YOU
HAVE TO LOOK WHAT IS WRONG (MAYBE PRESSURE OR PURITY). THIS TEST IS A QUITE
SIMPLE ONE TO ILLUSTRATE WHAT A 'PARAMETER' IS AND WHAT A 'REULTS' IS. OF COURSE
THERE ARE MUCH MORE COMPLEX TESTS WITH MUCH MORE PARAMETERS, BUT THE LOGIC IS
THE SAME; WITH EXACT THE SAME PARAMETERS YOU WILL OBSERVE THE SAME RESULT OR
VISA VERSUS. NOW LETS COME BACK TO THE BIG TEST:
FOR OUR EXAMPLE THE INITIAL TIME (TIME 0) IS OUR BIRTH, THE PARAMETERS COULD BE
INTELLIGENCE, CIRSTANCES, GOOD WILL (BAD WILL), PATIENCE AND SO ON, BUT LET'S
COME TO THE RESULTS; THERE ARE TWO POSSIBLE RESULTS HEAVEN OR HELL. WHEN THERE
ARE TWO DIFFERENT RESULTS, THERE MUST! BE DIFFERENT INITIAL PARAMETERS, WHICH
ARE OF COURSE SET WHEN WE ARE BORN. THAT MEANS WHEN THERE IS A GOD, HE (BY THE
WAY WHY HE NOT SHE !!! THINK ABOUT IT.) HAS ALREADY SET WHAT WILL BE THE RESULT,
THEN WHAT COULD WE CHANGE ? NOTHING, BECAUSE THIS WOULD ALSO HAVE BEEN SET AT
THE BEGINNING. SO THIS WOULD MEAN THAT THERE IS AN UNEQUALITY AT THE BEGINNING.
THAT IS SIMPLY NOT FAIR. WOULD YOU BELIEVE IN AN UNFAIR GOD ?
3) ANOTHER CONTRADICTION BETWEEN RELIGION AND SCIENCE IS THE EVOLUTION OF THE
HUMAN RACE. SCIENCE PROVES THAT WE AND ALSO APES EVOLVED FROM THE SAME KIND OF
SPECIES, WHEREAS RELIGION INSISTS ON ITS OLD VIEWS. SCIENCE IS BUILT ON FACTS
AND PROVES, BUT RELIGION FAILS WHAT IS CONCERNING PROVES. EVERYBODY COULD ASK
WHAT THESE PROVES ARE. HERE ARE A FEW OF SCIENTIFIC METHODS, WHICH PROVE THE
EVOLUTION OF US:
A) PROTEIN PRESIPITATION METHOD: IN THIS METHOD NEAR 'RELATIVES' GIVE LITTLE
PRESIPITATION, WHILE FAR RELATIVES GIVE MUCH PRESIPITAION. MOST PRESIPITATION IS
OBSERVED WITH ANIMALS LIKE MICE, WHILE WITH APES ONLY LITTLE PRESIPITATION IS
OBTAINED.
B) GENETICS: OUR DNA IS 99.9 % EQUAL WITH THE APES DNA, WHEREAS WITH OTHER
ANIMALS THIS RATIO IS MUCH LOWER.
C) ANTROPOLGY: MANY SKELETON FOUNDINGS PROVE THAT THERE ARE OTHER SPECIES
BETWEEN OUR RACE (HOMO SAPIENS SAPIENS) AND OUR COMMON RELATIVES WITH THE APES.
MANY SPECIES LIKE, HOMO US, HOMO HABILIS, LUCY, CRO MAGNON ... WERE FOUND AND
DNA TEST SHOW WHAT INTERMEDIATE STEP THIS SPECIE IS.
D) LINGUISTIC: FIRST OF ALL I WANT TO SAY THAT ALL WHAT I WILL WRITE COULD BE
FOUND ON TWO SOURCES: - THE BOOK 'KANZI THE APE AT THE BRINK OF THE HUMAN MIND'
FROM ROGER LEWIN
- TERRAMAGICA PROGRAMME IN SAT-1 TV (GERMANY)
IN THE LINGUISTIC DEPARTMENT OF GEORGIA STATE UNIVERSITY A GROUP OF SCIENTIST
INVESTIGATED THE ABILITY OF APES TO LEARN A LANGUAGE. THEY FOUND THAT BONOBOS
HAVE A GOOD ABILITY TO LEARN LANGUAGE. THEY USED SYMBOLS FOR EACH WORD AND
PICTURES FOR THIS WORD WHICH SHOW THE REAL OBJECT. ONE DAY KANZI WAS BORN, BUT
THE SCIENTIST THOUGHT IF WAS TO EARLY TO TEACH KANZI LANGUAGE. BUT THERE CAME A
TIME WHEN KANZI, WHO WAS JUST THERE DURING THE INVESTIGATIONS TOOK A REAL APPLE
AND THE SYMBOL FOR THAT OBJECT AND JUST GRINNED TO SAY: HELLO GUYS YOU DIDN'T
NOTICE ME, BUT I AM LEARNING (LIKE A CHILD LEARNS LANGUAGE). AFTER THAT DAY ALL
THE ATTENTION WAS PAID ON KANZI. SOME TIMES LATER HE WAS ABLE TO FULLFIL ALL THE
REQUIREMENTS OF LANGUAGE; TO USE SYMBOLS (WORDS)FOR NON ESSENTIAL THINGS
(FOODLIKE) LIKE TOOLS, TO GENERATE NEW SYMBOLS, TO EXPRESS FEELINGS WITH
SYMBOLS, TO MAKE SENTENCES, TO REMEMBER WHAT HE HAS SAID AND MUCH MORE. MOREOVER
HE WAS ABLE TO PLAY PACMAN, DRIVE AN ELECTRICAL CAR
AND NOW THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, HE WAS TOLD TO OPEN A BOX IN WHICH THERE WAS
FOOD HE LIKED, BUT THE PROBLEM HE COULD NOT GET THE FOOD BECAUSE HE NEEDED A
KNIFELIKE THING TO OPEN THAT BOX. WHAT HE DID WAS HE TOOK A STONE AND MADE A
KNIFE FROM IT LIKE WE DID IT IN THE STONE AGE. THEN HE TRIED TO TEACH LANGUAGE
TO OTHER BONOBOS, BUT HE HAD NOT SUCCEED IT AS FAR AS I AM INFORMED. BUT I AM
NOT UPDATE TO BE HONEST.
4) WHEN THERE IS ONE GOD WHAT IS THE REASON FOR SO MANY RELIGIONS? COULD THE
ANSWER LIE IN OURSELVES? LOOK HOW MANY COUNTRIES, HOW MANY IDEOLOGIES, HOW MANY
LANGUAGES EXIST. ALL THESE ARE MAN MADE. MANY COUNTRIES HAVE PROBLEMS WITH EACH
OTHER, MANY IDEOLOGIES ALSO, IT IS NORMAL THAT THE RELIGIONS ARE ALSO IN TROUBLE
WITH EACH OTHER, BECAUSE THEY NOT FROM HEAVEN BUT FROM EARTH AND WE HUMANS HAVE
TO LEARN A LOT. HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE DIED DURING THE WARS FOR RELIGION, HOW MANY
STILL DIE FOR THAT REASON IN INDIA, IN ALGERIA, IN THE US!!, IN IRAN AND ALL
OVER THE WORLD. WHEN WILL WE BE ABLE TO RESPECT EACH OTHER?


---------------------------------
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ISTENMEYEN POSTADAN BIKTINIZ MI? ISTENMEYEN POSTADAN EN IYI KORUNMA YAHOO! POSTA€™DA
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Not that this is the place for this discussion but you seem to totally
misunderstand science. It proves that many things happen because of no
reason at all. Since you started with an amazingly illogical supposition
then any conclusions drawn are of course mute.

If anything you just disproved your supposition that there is a “reason”…..

Sw

-----Original Message-----
From: computersupport%40yahoogroups.com">computersupportyahoogroups.com
[mailto: computersupport%40yahoogroups.com">computersupportyahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Yusuf Kuzu
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 1:06 PM
To: computersupport%40yahoogroups.com">computersupportyahoogroups.com
Subject: [Computer Support] Why

I do not believe in something like a god, because of the reasons stated
below:
1)In science everything must have a reason. So what should the reason of our
creation be ? Most people say god is testing us. When god is almighty he
should
know the test results, why is he testing when he already knows the results ?
So
that could not be the reason. It may also be said 'to prove his
almightyness'-,
but the question here is 'to whom ?'. So when there is no reason there could
not
be a result. Our creation could only be by chance, but then there is no god
needed. Most people are saying that this chance is very very low. Yes
indeed,
but this chance must have been occured so that we are now able to say this.
If
this was not the case then we would not be able to say this, but in this
case
also everything is normal. If your mother and father didn't do that thing
exact
in this period (48 hours)(You know..) You would not exist, but it would not
matter, because nobody would notice that you do not exist, because that is
normal. So if we didn't exist who would notice
it....
2) Most religions say we are ongoing a test; when we do good things we will
go
to heaven (Result 1), when we do bad things we will go to hell (Result 2).
Also
in buddism, there is a result which will affect our next life (lives). In a
test
there are parameters (inputs) which could affect the test results (outputs).
When all the initial parameters are the same the result is also to be the
same
(logic). Or let's say it in other words, when there are two or more results,
normally we look what has changed (parameters--inputs). For example pure
water
(purity is a parameter, because with increasing salt concentration the
boiling
point also increases) has a boiling point at 100°C when the air pressure is
1
atm (here the air pressure is another parameter, because with increasing air
pressure the boiling point decreases). Scientific tests could only be made,
because the test are repeatable. When you repeat this test 1000 times you
will
get 1000 times the same result (boiling point =
100°C) (Otherwise nobody would thrust science). If this is not the case you
have to look what is wrong (maybe pressure or purity). This test is a quite
simple one to illustrate what a 'parameter' is and what a 'reults' is. Of
course
there are much more complex tests with much more parameters, but the logic
is
the same; with exact the same parameters you will observe the same result or
visa versus. Now lets come back to the big test:
For our example the initial time (time 0) is our birth, the parameters could
be
intelligence, cirstances, good will (bad will), patience and so on, but
let's
come to the results; there are two possible results heaven or hell. When
there
are two different results, there must! be different initial parameters,
which
are of course set when we are born. That means when there is a god, he (by
the
way why he not she !!! Think about it.) has already set what will be the
result,
then what could we change ? Nothing, because this would also have been set
at
the beginning. So this would mean that there is an unequality at the
beginning.
That is simply not fair. Would you believe in an unfair god ?
3) Another contradiction between Religion and Science is the evolution of
the
human race. Science proves that we and also apes evolved from the same kind
of
species, whereas religion insists on its old views. Science is built on
facts
and proves, but religion fails what is concerning proves. Everybody could
ask
what these proves are. Here are a few of scientific methods, which prove the
evolution of us:
a) Protein presipitation method: In this method near 'relatives' give little
presipitation, while far relatives give much presipitaion. Most
presipitation is
observed with animals like mice, while with apes only little presipitation
is
obtained.
b) Genetics: Our DNA is 99.9 % equal with the apes DNA, whereas with other
animals this ratio is much lower.
c) Antropolgy: Many skeleton foundings prove that there are other species
between our race (homo sapiens sapiens) and our common relatives with the
apes.
Many species like, homo us, homo habilis, Lucy, Cro Magnon ... were found
and
DNA test show what intermediate step this specie is.
d) Linguistic: First of all I want to say that all what I will write could
be
found on two sources: - The book 'Kanzi the ape at the brink of the human
mind'
from Roger Lewin
- Terramagica Programme in SAT-1 TV (Germany)
In the linguistic department of Georgia State University a group of
scientist
investigated the ability of apes to learn a language. They found that
bonobos
have a good ability to learn language. They used symbols for each word and
pictures for this word which show the real object. One day Kanzi was born,
but
the scientist thought if was to early to teach Kanzi language. But there
came a
time when Kanzi, who was just there during the investigations took a real
apple
and the symbol for that object and just grinned to say: Hello guys you
didn't
notice me, but I am learning (like a child learns language). After that day
all
the attention was paid on Kanzi. Some times later he was able to fullfil all
the
requirements of language; to use symbols (words)for non essential things
(foodlike) like tools, to generate new symbols, to express feelings with
symbols, to make sentences, to remember what he has said and much more.
Moreover
he was able to play pacman, drive an electrical car
and now the most important thing, he was told to open a box in which there
was
food he liked, but the problem he could not get the food because he needed a
knifelike thing to open that box. What he did was he took a stone and made a
knife from it like we did it in the stone age. Then he tried to teach
language
to other bonobos, but he had not succeed it as far as I am informed. But I
am
not update to be honest.
4) When there is one god what is the reason for so many religions? Could the
answer lie in ourselves? Look how many countries, how many ideologies, how
many
languages exist. All these are man made. Many countries have problems with
each
other, many ideologies also, it is normal that the religions are also in
trouble
with each other, because they not from heaven but from earth and we humans
have
to learn a lot. How many people have died during the wars for religion, how
many
still die for that reason in India, in Algeria, in the US!!, in Iran and all
over the world. When will we be able to respect each other?

------------------------------------
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