List Info

Thread: Online class projects on commercial site - fair use or not?
Online class projects on commercial site - fair use or not?
country flaguser name
United States		 2007-02-15 18:10:06 

  


  

    
For an online class, students have the option of doing a project. If
desired, projects will be posted on the instructor's web site. This web
site is a commercial site, as it exists as the home of the instructor's
business of offering online classes. The posted project(s) would be for
viewing only.




If a project includes a collection of images, collected from numerous
sources (web sites, books, etc.) with student-written captions, would
the use of those images for purposes of the project, be considered fair
use, as in academic or educational fair use? Would posting the project,
with the images, on the instructor's web site constitute infringement?



The instructor opined that if one links to the images in their original
location, then it is NOT infringement, but if the images are actually
copied onto her server, it IS. I disagree; I think linking to images on
other sites is actually worse, as you are using their bandwidth for
free as well as their image. The instructor does not think image use
for these projects would qualify as fair use for educational purposes.

I do. 



Finally, if a student were to publish (via LuLu or Blurb, say), a
private, limited-edition book of the project, including the images,
would this be infringement?



Very Curious Purrrrrs...

wac




-- 


sig file
Wendy
Christensen, The
Cat HerderT82;

Cultural Ailurologist, Writer,
Illustrator, Photographer

http://www.outwittingcats.com
   http://www.wendychristensen.com



Got Cats? You need... "Outwitting
Cats: Tips, Tricks and 

Techniques for Persuading the Felines
in your Life That

What YOU Want is also what THEY Want" (Lyons, 2004)









  

  
  
   
     
    

  

      Inquiry AND Online class projects on
commercial site
  


  

     country flaguser name
United States		
     2007-02-16 12:35:55
  


  

    

  


  

    

I'm replying to two queries with one post here.



As a supporter of broadly-interpreted fair use rights, I understand that there are good reasons for not asking for permission when none is needed.


 


That said, if reasonable copyright attorneys might differ over whether a particular use qualifies as fair use, or is otherwise non-infringing, I think the best course of action is simply to ask for permission of the copyright holders in question.  Neither of the posts below make clear why the referenced students, professors, and/or journal editors can't or won't request permission to use these quotes and images.  If the MySpace quotes are still online, the authors can be emailed through MySpace; likewise the images may have some identifying material attached.  This communication would also let the webmasters resolve any questions about hotlinking and the like. ; In my experience (FWIW), most MySpace posters and those posting images online would be quite happy to have their works used for free, with proper attribution, in scholarly articles. 


 


Just as a general observation, it seems ;fairly common for people to use works without a license, then spend a great deal of mental effort debating whether the use is fair, or feeling guilt and fear of being accused of infringement, in situations where a simple email or letter to the copyright owner ;would have a good chance of obtaining a free or low-cost license for the use.  I have often been puzzled by this.


 


Of course, none of this applies if we're talking about "orphan works," or some other situation where the copyright owner can't be reached or refuses permission.  Is that the case in either of these projects?


 



Thea


 


>>Herring, Mark wrote:
>; Two professors of business have written an article based upon a study of 
> MySpace.  A graduate student logged on and read various posts.  The 
> article is about advertisers and social networks.  So far so good. ; But 
> now the journal editors, after accepting the article, are fearful that 
> the quoted postings (very, very few of the total possible) will make 
> them liable.  All the posts are anonymous " A post to MySpace argued 
> that ".." 
> 
> ; 
> 
> The journal has asked the authors for some evidence that this does not 
> leave them open to a lawsuit.  Any ideas?  I have sent them 5 but want 
> very much to hear what others have to say.


>;>> Wendy Christensen <christensencatlas.mv.com> 2/15/2007 7:10 PM >>&gt;


For an online class, students have the option of doing a project. If desired, projects will be posted on the instructor's web site. This web site is a commercial site, as it exists as the home of the instructor's business of offering online classes. The posted project(s) would be for viewing only.

If a project includes a collection of images, collected from numerous sources (web sites, books, etc.) with student-written captions, would the use of those images for purposes of the project, be considered fair use, as in academic or educational fair use? Would posting the project, with the images, on the instructor's web site constitute infringement?

The instructor opined that if one links to the images in their original location, then it is NOT infringement, but if the images are actually copied onto her server, it IS. I disagree; I think linking to images on other sites is actually worse, as you are using their bandwidth for free as well
  as their image. The instructor does not think image use for these projects would qualify as fair use for educational purposes. I do. 

Finally, if a student were to publish (via LuLu or Blurb, say), a private, limited-edition book of the project, including the images, would this be infringement?

Very Curious Purrrrrs...
wac



-- 
Wendy Christensen, The Cat HerderT
Cultural Ailurologist, Writer, Illustrator, Photographer
http://www.outwittingcats.com    http://www.wendychristensen.com


Got Cats? You need... "Outwitting Cats: Tips, Tricks and 
Techniques for Persuading the Felines in your Life That
What YOU Want is also what THEY Want" (Lyons, 2004) 


  

  
  
   
     
    

  

      Online class projects on commercial
site - fair use or not? (UN
  


  

     country flaguser name
United States		
     2007-02-16 12:35:55
  


  

    
Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED 
Caveats: NONE

1.)Linking may be using their bandwidth, but they're free to
deny you
access at any time and for any reason that they wish.
Linking IMHO does
not violate the distribution right because distribution is
still under
the control of the originator.  

2.)On another prong, there seems to be a fair amount of
agreement that
in general, the web equivalent of in classroom, educational
use is to
limit access to people in the class.  It's not so much
whether the
server that the professor puts classroom projects on is
owned by the
school, but whether he allows the public in general to
access it.  

Keep in mind that in the above, 1 is answering the question
"Has any
copying/distribution occurred?" and 2 Is a fallback,
"Is the
copying/distribution permitted."  If the answer to 1 is
no, than 2 is
irrelevant.

-----Original Message-----
From: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual
Property
[mailto:CNI-COPYRIGHTcni.org] On Behalf Of Wendy Christensen
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:10 PM
To: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property
Subject: [Disarmed] [CNI-(C)] Online class projects on
commercial site -
fair use or not?

For an online class, students have the option of doing a
project. If
desired, projects will be posted on the instructor's web
site. This web
site is a commercial site, as it exists as the home of the
instructor's
business of offering online classes. The posted project(s)
would be for
viewing only.

If a project includes a collection of images, collected from
numerous
sources (web sites, books, etc.) with student-written
captions, would
the use of those images for purposes of the project, be
considered fair
use, as in academic or educational fair use? Would posting
the project,
with the images, on the instructor's web site constitute
infringement?

The instructor opined that if one links to the images in
their original
location, then it is NOT infringement, but if the images are
actually
copied onto her server, it IS. I disagree; I think linking
to images on
other sites is actually worse, as you are using their
bandwidth for free
as well as their image. The instructor does not think image
use for
these projects would qualify as fair use for educational
purposes. I do.


Finally, if a student were to publish (via LuLu or Blurb,
say), a
private, limited-edition book of the project, including the
images,
would this be infringement?

Very Curious Purrrrrs...
wac


-- 

Wendy Christensen, The Cat Herder(tm)
Cultural Ailurologist, Writer, Illustrator, Photographer
h <http://www.outwitti
ngcats.com> MailScanner has detected a possible
fraud attempt from "www.outwittingcats.com"
claiming to be
ttp://www.outwittingcats.com <http://www.outwitti
ngcats.com>
http://www.wendychris
tensen.com <http://www.wendyc
hristensen.com> 

Got Cats? You need... "Outwitting Cats: Tips, Tricks
and Techniques for
Persuading the Felines in your Life That What YOU Want is
also what THEY
Want" (Lyons, 2004) 


Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED 
Caveats: NONE


############################################################
#
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
     the mailing list <CNI-COPYRIGHTcni.org>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <CNI-COPYRIGHT-offcni.org>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to
<CNI-COPYRIGHT-digestcni.org>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to
<CNI-COPYRIGHT-indexcni.org>
To postpone your subscription, E-mail to
<CNI-COPYRIGHT-nullcni.org>
To resume mail list message delivery from postpone mode,
E-mail to <CNI-COPYRIGHT-feedcni.org>
Send administrative queries to 
<CNI-COPYRIGHT-requestcni.org>

Visit the CNI-COPYRIGHT e-mail list archive at <https
://mail2.cni.org/Lists/CNI-COPYRIGHT/>.




  


  

    
  

  
  
   
     
    

  

      Re: Online class projects on
commercial site - fair use or not?
  


  

     country flaguser name
United States		
     2007-02-16 12:35:55
  


  

    
I will leave the fair-use question to those better qualified
to answer.

But why can't the students get permission to use this
material 
themselves? They will have to clear rights to third party
material when 
they grow up anyway; they should start learning to do so
now.

-- 
Edward Barrow
Copyright Consultant
Copyright and Licensing blog: http://www.copyweb.co.uk/
***Important: see http://www.copyw
eb.co.uk/space/email for important 
information
about the legal status of this email


Wendy Christensen wrote:
> For an online class, students have the option of doing
a project. If 
> desired, projects will be posted on the instructor's
web site. This web 
> site is a commercial site, as it exists as the home of
the instructor's 
> business of offering online classes. The posted
project(s) would be for 
> viewing only.
> 
> If a project includes a collection of images, collected
from numerous 
> sources (web sites, books, etc.) with student-written
captions, would 
> the use of those images for purposes of the project, be
considered fair 
> use, as in academic or educational fair use? Would
posting the project, 
> with the images, on the instructor's web site
constitute infringement?
> 
> The instructor opined that if one links to the images
in their original 
> location, then it is NOT infringement, but if the
images are actually 
> copied onto her server, it IS. I disagree; I think
linking to images on 
> other sites is actually worse, as you are using their
bandwidth for free 
> as well as their image. The instructor does not think
image use for 
> these projects would qualify as fair use for
educational purposes. I do.
> 
> Finally, if a student were to publish (via LuLu or
Blurb, say), a 
> private, limited-edition book of the project, including
the images, 
> would this be infringement?
> 
> Very Curious Purrrrrs...
> wac
> 
> -- 
> Wendy Christensen, /The Cat Herder™
> /Cultural Ailurologist, Writer, Illustrator,
Photographer
> h <http://www.outwittingcats.com>ttp://www.outwitti
ngcats.com 
> <http://www.outwitti
ngcats.com>   http://www.wendychris
tensen.com
> Got Cats? You need... "Outwitting Cats: Tips,
Tricks and
> Techniques for Persuading the Felines in your Life
That
> What YOU Want is also what THEY Want" (Lyons,
2004)
> 

############################################################
#
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
     the mailing list <CNI-COPYRIGHTcni.org>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <CNI-COPYRIGHT-offcni.org>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to
<CNI-COPYRIGHT-digestcni.org>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to
<CNI-COPYRIGHT-indexcni.org>
To postpone your subscription, E-mail to
<CNI-COPYRIGHT-nullcni.org>
To resume mail list message delivery from postpone mode,
E-mail to <CNI-COPYRIGHT-feedcni.org>
Send administrative queries to 
<CNI-COPYRIGHT-requestcni.org>

Visit the CNI-COPYRIGHT e-mail list archive at <https
://mail2.cni.org/Lists/CNI-COPYRIGHT/>.




  


  

    
  

  
  
   
     
    

  

      Re: Online class projects on
commercial site - fair use or not?
  


  

     country flaguser name
United States		
     2007-02-16 12:35:55
  


  

    

  


  

    Simplest answer:  you need to consult a lawyer on this.  It is not amenable to solid advice on a general listserv.

Some of my ideas -- but really, these are contested areas all -- and can turn very much on the details.  And I am in favor of a broad assertion of fair use.  Conservative counsel might give you other answers -- to be more sure to keep you out of trouble.  So there is that whole layer to keep in mind too.

1.	Linking is not an infringement of any copyright at all -- not a reproduction, not a display, just a pointer.  If you don't want someone to link to your site, don't put it up.  That is part of the technology.  And a link does not reproduce the item by the linker.  And if someone were to contend that it is part of the copyright bundle of rights (i.e., the right to exclude linking), then fair use would support you.

2.	Any reproduction (copy) is more likely to be infringement.  But if the use is for an educational purpose, with limited effect on the original work, for a non-commercial purpose, it is probably fair use.  The 4 factors are
purpose and character of the use
nature of the copyrighted work
amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work (the one copied) as whole and
effect of the use by the one copying on the market for or value of the copyrighted work.

3.	The student publication of copies would be much more likely to infringe than something done for a course and posted online for a limited time and for a limited purpose.  But, it could still be fair use.

See a copyright lawyer.  Give all the facts.  The copyright lawyer will know what to ask and what to look for.

Your general post just raises endless questions.

Steve Jamar



On Feb 15, 2007, at 7:10 PM, Wendy Christensen wrote:

  For an online class, students have the option of doing a project. If desired, projects will be posted on the instructor's web site. This web site is a commercial site, as it exists as the home of the instructor's business of offering online classes. The posted project(s) would be for viewing only.
 
 If a project includes a collection of images, collected from numerous sources (web sites, books, etc.) with student-written captions, would the use of those images for purposes of the project, be considered fair use, as in academic or educational fair use? Would posting the project, with the images, on the instructor's web site constitute infringement?
 
 The instructor opined that if one links to the images in their original location, then it is NOT infringement, but if the images are actually copied onto her server, it IS. I disagree; I think linking to images on other sites is actually worse, as you are using their bandwidth for free as well as their image. The instructor does not think image use for these projects would qualify as fair use for educational purposes. I do. 
 
 Finally, if a student were to publish (via LuLu or Blurb, say), a private, limited-edition book of the project, including the images, would this be infringement?
 
 Very Curious Purrrrrs...
 wac
 
 
-- 
   Wendy Christensen, The Cat Herder™
 Cultural Ailurologist, Writer, Illustrator, Photographer
 http://www.outwittingcats.com    http://www.wendychristensen.com
  
Got Cats? You need... "Outwitting Cats: Tips, Tricks and 
 Techniques for Persuading the Felines in your Life That
 What YOU Want is also what THEY Want" (Lyons, 2004) 
 
 
 
  

 
-- 
Prof. Steven D. Jamar                     vox:  202-806-8017
Howard University School of Law           fax:  202-806-8567
2900 Van Ness Street NW          stevenjamargmail.com">mailto:stevenjamargmail.com
Washington, DC  20008	                http://iipsj.com/SDJ/

"Nothing that is worth anything can be achieved in a lifetime; therefore we must be saved by hope."

Reinhold Neibuhr

 


  

  
  
   
     
    






 [1-5]











   
 





about | contact  Other archives ( Real Estate discussion Medical topics )