Promoting a CC book, Thicker Than Blood

Hello

	I have looked around quite a bit and have had no luck
locating a 
vaguely centralized listing of free Creative Commons books
that authors 
can post to.  I wrote a science fiction book with online
distribution in 
mind but don't know where to start promoting it.

http://www.thi
ckerthanbloodthebook.com

  Black Mask was taken offline, and dmoz requires a license
change to 
list.

Thank you for your help.

Matt
------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
Matthew Newhall
President of LILUG
Long Island Linux Users Group
presidentlilug.org
http://lilug.org

I admire ambition and despise greed.
------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------

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On Friday 09 June 2006 11:50 pm, ttb wrote:
> Hello
>
> 	I have looked around quite a bit and have had no luck
locating a
> vaguely centralized listing of free Creative Commons
books that authors
> can post to.  I wrote a science fiction book with
online distribution in
> mind but don't know where to start promoting it.
>
> http://www.thi
ckerthanbloodthebook.com
>
>   Black Mask was taken offline, and dmoz requires a
license change to
> list.

I went to the site at the link.

I see this:

M.A.Newhall (c)2005,(C)2006

but no indication of a CC license at all. Which CC license
is the book under?
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
> Matt
>
------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
>---- Matthew Newhall
> President of LILUG
> Long Island Linux Users Group
> presidentlilug.org
> http://lilug.org
>
> I admire ambition and despise greed.
>
------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

Hey, a fellow LUG person. I am with the bslug - bslug.org
(Bahamas Linux Users 
Group) but our site is down this last week. (I think someone
may have 
forgotten to pay the hoster.)

Where on Long Island do you meet? (I have friends and family
up that way.)


all the best,

drew

-- 
http://www.ourmed
ia.org/node/145261
Record a song and you might win $1,000.00
http://www.ourmedi
a.org/user/17145
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On 10 Jun 2006, at 04:50, ttb wrote:

> 	I have looked around quite a bit and have had no luck
locating a
> vaguely centralized listing of free Creative Commons
books that  
> authors
> can post to.  I wrote a science fiction book with
online  
> distribution in
> mind but don't know where to start promoting it.

Try common content (http://www.commonconten
t.org/), Boing Boing  
(http://www.boingboing.net) and the CC blog (http:// 
www.creativecommons.org/).

You can also sell print copies through a service like Lulu
(http:// 
www.lulu.com I think), which can be very useful.

- Rob.
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Hello

On Sat, 10 Jun 2006, drew Roberts wrote:

>
> but no indication of a CC license at all. Which CC
license is the book under?


         I decided to put that on a separate page on the
website under
the "license" link in the lower right hand
corner.  The URL to the
Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 2.5 License is also in
the beginning of
the pdf file.

         People were getting confused by all the links, text
and
instructions on the site, so when I simplified the site, I
put it on a
separate page.

         Do you think that effects the legal status?  99% of
the open
source stuff doesn't discuss license until after you
download and open the
package.

 	Also what about just including the URL instead of the full
text of 
the license?  A lot of people tell me they won't read a
book unless they 
can print it, so I was trying to save a tree.  But is the
license it still 
binding then?


>>
------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
>
> Hey, a fellow LUG person. I am with the bslug -
bslug.org (Bahamas Linux Users
> Group) but our site is down this last week. (I think
someone may have
> forgotten to pay the hoster.)
>
> Where on Long Island do you meet? (I have friends and
family up that way.)
>

We meet at SUNY Farmingdale in Farmingdale NY (on Route
110.)  We have 
been around for about 8 years.  It's pretty big these days.
 About 50 people a 
meeting and over 300 on the mailing list.

>
> all the best,
>
> drew
>

Thank you.

Matt

------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
Matthew Newhall
President of LILUG
Long Island Linux Users Group
presidentlilug.org
http://lilug.org

If we are reincarnated after we die, and time in between
lives is not linear,
who to say we are not all the same person.
------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
_______________________________________________
cc-community mailing list
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On Saturday 10 June 2006 03:32 pm, M.A.Newhall wrote:
> Hello
>
> On Sat, 10 Jun 2006, drew Roberts wrote:
> > but no indication of a CC license at all. Which CC
license is the book
> > under?
>
>          I decided to put that on a separate page on
the website under
> the "license" link in the lower right hand
corner.  The URL to the
> Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 2.5 License is also
in the beginning of
> the pdf file.

Now I see it. I don't like what I see, but that is a
different issue. (I like 
to see BY-SA and BY licenses in that order btw. Stems from
liking to see GPL 
and BSD licenses in that same order - ignoring lgpl and MIT,
etc.)

As for places... ourmedia.org is one place. Then there is
lulu, but someone 
already mentioned that.
>
>          People were getting confused by all the links,
text and
> instructions on the site, so when I simplified the
site, I put it on a
> separate page.
>
>          Do you think that effects the legal status? 
99% of the open
> source stuff doesn't discuss license until after you
download and open the
> package.

Well, not on freshmeat and sourceforge. I check licenses
before downloading 
and trying stuff out. I want Free Software.
>
>  	Also what about just including the URL instead of the
full text of
> the license?  A lot of people tell me they won't read
a book unless they
> can print it, so I was trying to save a tree.  But is
the license it still
> binding then?
>
> >>
------------------------------------------------------------
------------
> >>---
> >
> > Hey, a fellow LUG person. I am with the bslug -
bslug.org (Bahamas Linux
> > Users Group) but our site is down this last week.
(I think someone may
> > have forgotten to pay the hoster.)
> >
> > Where on Long Island do you meet? (I have friends
and family up that
> > way.)
>

Family is/was Dix Hills and friends in No. Bellmore if the
address book is 
correct.

> We meet at SUNY Farmingdale in Farmingdale NY (on Route
110.)  We have
> been around for about 8 years.  It's pretty big these
days.  About 50
> people a meeting and over 300 on the mailing list.

What sorts of things do you all do?
>
> > all the best,
> >
> > drew
>
> Thank you.
>
> Matt
>
all the best,

drew
-- 
http://www.ourmed
ia.org/node/145261
Record a song and you might win $1,000.00
http://www.ourmedi
a.org/user/17145
_______________________________________________
cc-community mailing list
cc-communitylists.ibiblio.org
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Hello Drew

On Sat, 10 Jun 2006, drew Roberts wrote:


>
> Now I see it. I don't like what I see, but that is a
different issue. (I like
> to see BY-SA and BY licenses in that order btw. Stems
from liking to see GPL
> and BSD licenses in that same order - ignoring lgpl and
MIT, etc.)
>

I agree that BY-SA is better than BY.  I may do that for
other stories 
in the future.  Right now I want to do the traditional
publishing route 
in addition to CC while protecting my fans from molestation
for being, well,
fans.  People will buy hard copies regardless if they are
available.

If a sane 'translations OK' license is worked out I will
probably change 
the licensing to include that as well.

My goal is get as many people as possible to read the book
and tell me 
what they think.  The plan was to release it under the CC
first knowing it 
couldn't be taken back.  Then I would shop it to
publishers.  I was hoping 
I could just skip the "shopping it" step this
time around and shop it 
along with it's sequel (I'm planning four) with a really
strong fan base. 
But I was having bad luck getting people to read, review
(bad reviews are 
good too I have a day job to fall back on), or list the
book.

I was hoping the book industry was different than the music
or movie 
industries in that they didn't have a land lock on the
distribution and 
promotion channels.   I am a little nervous because the book
takes place 
in the very near future and is a bit of a rail against
intellectual property
itself.  I think I have gone as far as I can without locking
myself away from
potential readers.  The type of readers that need to hear
this sort of 
critique.  A person who might not think about where this is
all going on 
their own.

> As for places... ourmedia.org is one place. Then there
is lulu, but someone
> already mentioned that.
>>

Thanks I'll check it out.  Thank you.

>>          Do you think that effects the legal
status?  99% of the open
>> source stuff doesn't discuss license until after
you download and open the
>> package.
>
> Well, not on freshmeat and sourceforge. I check
licenses before downloading
> and trying stuff out. I want Free Software.

I dabble on the dark side, but yes copyleft is a little
important to me. 
8p

>
> Family is/was Dix Hills and friends in No. Bellmore if
the address book is
> correct.
>

Cool.  Tell them to come on down.

>> We meet at SUNY Farmingdale in Farmingdale NY (on
Route 110.)  We have
>> been around for about 8 years.  It's pretty big
these days.  About 50
>> people a meeting and over 300 on the mailing list.
>
> What sorts of things do you all do?
>>

Meetings are about two hours.  Usually we have a speaker
teaching the 
group about something for an hour and about an hour of
penguin chatter. 
Hey we've got free coffee!  No membership dues! 

Thanks for your help

Matt

------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
Matthew Newhall
President of LILUG
Long Island Linux Users Group
presidentlilug.org
http://lilug.org

If we are reincarnated after we die, and time in between
lives is not linear,
who to say we are not all the same person.
------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
_______________________________________________
cc-community mailing list
cc-communitylists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-community

On Saturday 10 June 2006 06:19 pm, M.A.Newhall wrote:
> Hello Drew
>
> On Sat, 10 Jun 2006, drew Roberts wrote:
> > Now I see it. I don't like what I see, but that
is a different issue. (I
> > like to see BY-SA and BY licenses in that order
btw. Stems from liking to
> > see GPL and BSD licenses in that same order -
ignoring lgpl and MIT,
> > etc.)
>
> I agree that BY-SA is better than BY.  I may do that
for other stories
> in the future.  Right now I want to do the traditional
publishing route
> in addition to CC while protecting my fans from
molestation for being,
> well, fans.  People will buy hard copies regardless if
they are available.
>
> If a sane 'translations OK' license is worked out I
will probably change
> the licensing to include that as well.
>
> My goal is get as many people as possible to read the
book and tell me
> what they think.  

What is it about the particular license you have chosen that
makes you think 
it will entice people to do this?

> The plan was to release it under the CC first knowing
it 
> couldn't be taken back.  Then I would shop it to
publishers.  I was hoping
> I could just skip the "shopping it" step
this time around and shop it
> along with it's sequel (I'm planning four) with a
really strong fan base.
> But I was having bad luck getting people to read,
review (bad reviews are
> good too I have a day job to fall back on), or list the
book.
>
> I was hoping the book industry was different than the
music or movie
> industries in that they didn't have a land lock on the
distribution and
> promotion channels.   

Here is a link about the publishing industry that I have
bookmarked:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~irvinei/publishing.html

> I am a little nervous because the book takes place 
> in the very near future and is a bit of a rail against
intellectual
> property itself.  I think I have gone as far as I can
without locking
> myself away from potential readers.  The type of
readers that need to hear
> this sort of critique.  A person who might not think
about where this is
> all going on their own.
>
> > As for places... ourmedia.org is one place. Then
there is lulu, but
> > someone already mentioned that.
>
> Thanks I'll check it out.  Thank you.

You might want to check these links about writin and
publishing as well:

http://nanonuts.blogspot.com/2005/10/c
opyright-essentials-for-writers.html
http://nanonuts.blogspot.com/2005/10/previously-pu
blished.html
ht
tp://www.nanowrimo.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=
2622&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&start=0
http://www.nanowrimo.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topi
c_id=2622&forum=150&post_id=266915#forumpost266915

>
> >>          Do you think that effects the legal
status?  99% of the open
> >> source stuff doesn't discuss license until
after you download and open
> >> the package.
> >
> > Well, not on freshmeat and sourceforge. I check
licenses before
> > downloading and trying stuff out. I want Free
Software.
>
> I dabble on the dark side, but yes copyleft is a little
important to me.
> 8p
>
> > Family is/was Dix Hills and friends in No.
Bellmore if the address book
> > is correct.
>
> Cool.  Tell them to come on down.
>
> >> We meet at SUNY Farmingdale in Farmingdale NY
(on Route 110.)  We have
> >> been around for about 8 years.  It's pretty
big these days.  About 50
> >> people a meeting and over 300 on the mailing
list.
> >
> > What sorts of things do you all do?
>
> Meetings are about two hours.  Usually we have a
speaker teaching the
> group about something for an hour and about an hour of
penguin chatter.
> Hey we've got free coffee!  No membership dues! 
>
> Thanks for your help
>
> Matt
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
>---- Matthew Newhall
> President of LILUG
> Long Island Linux Users Group
> presidentlilug.org
> http://lilug.org

all the best,

drew
-- 
http://www.ourmed
ia.org/node/145261
Record a song and you might win $1,000.00
http://www.ourmedi
a.org/user/17145
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cc-community mailing list
cc-communitylists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-community

On 6/10/06, M.A.Newhall <ttbthickerthanbloodthebook.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Jun 2006, drew Roberts wrote:
> > but no indication of a CC license at all. Which CC
license is the book under?
>
>
>          I decided to put that on a separate page on
the website under
> the "license" link in the lower right hand
corner.  The URL to the
> Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 2.5 License is also
in the beginning of
> the pdf file.

I don't like the part of your license that says, "You
may not alter,
transform, or build upon this work." Other than that,
I'd probably
rename "license" to "some rights
reserved" or give another indicator
that it's CC-licensed, which might increase the overall
exposure. As
it is your page only visibly reads
"(c)2005,(C)2006" which to me looks
like "some heavy copyrightin' dude there",
which of course would be a
false impression.

If you want to unclutter the page you might wanna get rid of
the
"valid" badges. Unless your book is about web
standards I don't see a
great benefit to the target group (potential readers).

Philipp
-- 
Google Blogoscoped
http://blog.outer-court.c
om
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Hello

 	Thanks that's what I needed.

Matt


On Sat, 10 Jun 2006, Rob Myers wrote:

> On 10 Jun 2006, at 04:50, ttb wrote:
>
>> 	I have looked around quite a bit and have had no
luck locating a
>> vaguely centralized listing of free Creative
Commons books that
>> authors
>> can post to.  I wrote a science fiction book with
online
>> distribution in
>> mind but don't know where to start promoting it.
>
> Try common content (http://www.commonconten
t.org/), Boing Boing
> (http://www.boingboing.net) and the CC blog (http://
> www.creativecommons.org/).
>
> You can also sell print copies through a service like
Lulu (http://
> www.lulu.com I think), which can be very useful.
>
> - Rob.
> _______________________________________________
> cc-community mailing list
> cc-communitylists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-community
>


------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
Matthew Newhall
President of LILUG
Long Island Linux Users Group
presidentlilug.org
http://lilug.org

If we are reincarnated after we die, and time in between
lives is not linear,
who to say we are not all the same person.
------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
_______________________________________________
cc-community mailing list
cc-communitylists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-community

On Sat, 10 Jun 2006, drew Roberts wrote:

>> My goal is get as many people as possible to read
the book and tell me
>> what they think.
>
> What is it about the particular license you have chosen
that makes you think
> it will entice people to do this?

Here is a question for you.  When do you think it is
appropriate to use 
this CC license?  How about that new Perl Jam video?  Do you
think they 
were out of line picking the same license as I did?

There is a fundamental lie to the media industry.  Even
fifteen years ago 
you needed to purchase the medium to get the content.  It
was a 
practical restraint.  So they tied all of their financial
tracking and legal
protections to the finite medium model.  That is all over.

Even since about 1990-1995 (.mp3, cd-rw, Internet) clever
fans have 
figured out ways to separate the content from the medium. 
This screws up
the ability to make sales projections and subsequently all
contracts.  Many
of the top decision makers are really just statisticians
with jet planes, and
now they are facing obsolescence.  So, deciding it was
better to protect 
themselves than maximize sales, they attack the clever fans.
 To give into 
a one time purchase with any medium used after, screws with
their 
stats.  It also reveals another twisted injustice.  The
profits for 
the statisticians are obscene, because the medium is
actually cheap.

Fortunately with the exception of a few e-book incidents,
the book 
industry was the least unfair and overpriced of all the
copyright 
entertainment industries.  Margins are small and so are
profits.  So here 
I am deciding that this is the medium to communicate with
people, but 
refusing to live the lie.  People will buy my book because
(well first 
because they are interested) they find it more economically
feasible and
more convenient to buy it than to print their own.

Just like all other copyright in the Internet age, it
becomes a service 
instead of good.  A company can leverage my copyright to
become the only 
bulk printer at a cheaper price than an individual can.  If
there is a profit 
maybe I'll even make a few bucks.

I guess at my core I don't want to see entertainment
copyright abolished 
or all forced into copyleft.  Operating system kernels will
always have 
interest because of tangential motives, (like `I wrote the
program your 
million dollar operation is using, hire me or your
competitor will') but
so many able artists have no tangential value until they
already very famous.

>
>> The plan was to release it under the CC first
knowing it
>> couldn't be taken back.  Then I would shop it to
publishers.  I was hoping
>> I could just skip the "shopping it"
step this time around and shop it
>> along with it's sequel (I'm planning four) with a
really strong fan base.
>> But I was having bad luck getting people to read,
review (bad reviews are
>> good too I have a day job to fall back on), or list
the book.
>>
>> I was hoping the book industry was different than
the music or movie
>> industries in that they didn't have a land lock on
the distribution and
>> promotion channels.
>
> Here is a link about the publishing industry that I
have bookmarked:
>
> http://members.ozemail.com.au/~irvinei/publishing.html
>

Thank you.  This is a very good link, lots of
straightforward details. 
The brutal beating and lack of money in writing for new
writers is about
what I expected.  This is coherent with what I already
believed. 
Fortunately it does not clash with my goal; get the maximum
amount of 
people to read this story.  Compared to the cost of living
in NY, it seems 
most advances would be a rounding error.  I was already
prepared to write 
this series and be done with it, never leaving my career
while I do that.

>
> You might want to check these links about writin and
publishing as well:
>
> http://nanonuts.blogspot.com/2005/10/c
opyright-essentials-for-writers.html

Old news I learned most of this stuff year two of being an
open source 
advocate.

> http://nanonuts.blogspot.com/2005/10/previously-pu
blished.html
> ht
tp://www.nanowrimo.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=
2622&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&start=0

This is mainly why I was prepared not do any kind of deal
with this book. 
To date I have not sent a manuscript to a single publisher. 
Honestly 
though I think this is worth it because I have received a
boatload of 
edits that have been invaluable in tuning my grammatical
skills.

The plan was shop it to a few with full disclosure about the
site but not 
get discouraged.  If the reviews aren't both sane and
terrible write the
second book in the series and throw the first in for free
when I shop it. 
So far I have received only one so-so review, the rest have
been warm to 
glowing.

> http://www.nanowrimo.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topi
c_id=2622&forum=150&post_id=266915#forumpost266915

Here it is, the bottom line.  Publishers that believe that
having a 
non-commercial non-modify copy of a book out there will hurt
them are 
acting more like the panicky statisticians of Hollywood than
they would 
like to admit.  If I give this my all and I can't shop the
second book then
I know there is no traditional channel for literary
criticism of the 
copyright and patent industries.  Eventually entertainment
will compete on a
level playing field elevating talent over insider
connections and luck, 
while maximizing the profits to the artists.  Since I do not
need the 
royalties to survive I am pressing that advantage and
approaching sci-fi
publishing from where it will be in the future, not where it
is now.

Matt

------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
Matthew Newhall
President of LILUG
Long Island Linux Users Group
presidentlilug.org
http://lilug.org

Despite improved efficiency, copyrights, patents, and
fractional reserve banking
share the same problem.  The press does not show numerically
complete scaled
annotated axises on published graphs, and people do not know
to ask for them.
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-------------------
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