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Thread: Re: Free Rootkit with Every New Intel Machine




Re: Free Rootkit with Every New Intel Machine
country flaguser name
United States
2007-06-25 11:33:21
David G. Koontz writes:
> There are third party TPM modules, which could allow
some degree of
> standardization:
>
> http://www.ieiworld.com/en/news_content.asp?id=erbium/p
rojectOBJ00244201&news_cate=News&news_sub_cate=Produ
ct
>
> The IEI TPM module is used in their own motherboards
and some VIA
> motherboards.  They actively market the pluggable
modules.  Thinkpads
> appear to use a different connector:
> https://www.cosic.esat.kuleuven.be/publications/a
rticle-591.pdf
> 30 pins instead of 20 pins.

It seems odd for the TPM of all devices to be put on a
pluggable module
as shown here.  The whole point of the chip is to be bound
tightly
to the motherboard and to observe the boot and initial
program load
sequence.  Any steps to decouple the TPM and facilitate
separating it
from a motherboard will only make attacks on its security
model easier
and make the chip less useful for its stated purpose.

The idea of putting a TPM on a smart card or other removable
device is
even more questionable from this perspective.  A TPM which
communicates
via an easily accessible and tamperable bus is almost
useless for the
security concepts behind the Trusted Computing Group
architecture.  (The
exception might be if there were additional hardware to
encrypt the bus,
but that is not part of the standard spec.)

The other direction that has been mentioned, putting the TPM
onto the CPU
die, would make more sense for security, but I don't know of
any chips
that actually do that.  However with the future trend
towards increased
CPU parallelism and addition of extra cores for additional
functionality,
it would seem to be a natural extension, if TPMs catch on.

I tried hunting through the TCG specs to see if they say
anything about
this, but it's a maze.  Eventually there is supposed to be a
Platform
Conformance Credential which certifies that a particular
platform (e.g.
motherboard + associated chips) satisfies some criteria and
has gone
through a certification process.  But I couldn't find
anything specific
about what security features a "trusted platform"
is supposed to have.

The "TPM Design Principles" doc says:

https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/specs/
TPM/Main_Part1_Rev94.zip

> 11.2       RTR to Platform Binding
>
> Start of informative comment
>
> When performing validation of the EK and the platform
the challenger
> wishes to have knowledge of the binding of RTR to
platform. The RTR
> is bound to a TPM hence if the platform can show the
binding of TPM
> to platform the challenger can reasonably believe the
RTR and platform
> binding.  The TPM cannot provide all of the information
necessary for
> the challenger to trust in the binding. That
information comes from the
> manufacturing process and occurs outside the control of
the TPM.
>
> End of informative comment
>
> 1. The EK is transitively bound to the Platform via the
TPM as follows:
> a. An EK is bound to one and only one TPM (i.e., there
is a one to one
> correspondence between an Endorsement Key and a TPM.)
> b. A TPM is bound to one and only one Platform. (i.e.,
there is a one
> to one correspondence between a TPM and a Platform.)
> c. Therefore, an EK is bound to a Platform. (i.e.,
there is a one to
> one correspondence between an Endorsement Key and a
Platform.)

Here, the RTR is the Root of Trust for Reporting, aka the
on-chip
Endorsement Key (EK) which the TPM uses to sign platform and
software
configuration info as part of its Remote Attestation
capability.
This text would seem to argue against a removable TPM.

Here's a quote from one of the PC-related specs:

https://www.
trustedcomputinggroup.org/specs/PCClient/TCG_PCClientImpleme
ntationforBIOS_1-20_1-00.pdf

> 1.2.12.1.2   Binding Methods
> Start of informative comment
>
> The method of binding the TPM to the motherboard is an
architectural and
> design decision made by the respective manufacturer and
is not specified
> here. There are two types of binding: physical and
logical. Physical
> binding relies on hardware techniques while logical
binding relies on
> cryptographic techniques. The nature and strength of
each method is
> defined by the TPM's or the Platform's Protection
Profile.
>
> Example:
>
> The TPM is a physical chip soldered to the Host
Platform. Here the
> Endorsement Key is physically bound to the TPM (it's
inside it) and the
> TPM is physically bound to the Host Platform by the
solder. The required
> strength of each binding is determined by the
Protection Profile.
>
> End of informative comment

So this would allow a removable TPM but it has to be
"logically" bound
to the motherboard via cryptography, presumably something
like an
encrypted bus.

As Peter Gutmann noted, most TPM systems are relatively
expensive business
laptops where the chip is sold as a security chip, although
in practice
it doesn't do much.  Possibly with Vista's BitLocker disk
encryption we
will see more use of TPMs.  I saw the other day that
Microsoft was about
to make BitLocker available to home users (it's only in the
high-end
Vistas now) but changed their mind at the last minute.

Hal Finney

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Re: Free Rootkit with Every New Intel Machine
country flaguser name
New Zealand
2007-06-25 22:47:11
halfinney.org ("Hal Finney") writes:

>The idea of putting a TPM on a smart card or other
removable device is even
>more questionable from this perspective.

It's not just questionable, it's a really, really bad idea. 
TPMs are
fundamentally just severely feature-crippled smart cards. 
That is, they're
optimised for doing DRM/secure
boot/whatever-you-want-to-call-it, but in
practice not much good for doing anything else (even if
there are paper and
Powerpoint-slide claims to the contrary).  So you have
something with all the
drawbacks of a smart card (external widget that needs to be
bought at extra
cost and plugged in) and none of the advantages.

>Possibly with Vista's BitLocker disk encryption we will
see more use of TPMs.

BitLocker just uses the TPM as a glorified USB key (sealing
a key in a TPM is
functionally equivalent to encrypting it on a USB key). 
Since BitLocker isn't
tied to a TPM in any way (I'm sure Microsoft's managers
could see which way
the wind was blowing when they designed it), it's not going
to be TPM's killer
app.

Peter.

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RE: Free Rootkit with Every New Intel Machine
country flaguser name
United Kingdom
2007-06-26 03:22:54
On 26 June 2007 00:51, Ian Farquhar (ifarquha) wrote:

>> It seems odd for the TPM of all devices to be put
on a pluggable module as
>> shown here.  The whole point of the chip is to be
bound tightly to the
>> motherboard and to observe the boot and initial
program load sequence.
> 
> Maybe I am showing my eternal optimist side here, but
to me, this is how
> TPM's should be used, as opposed to the way their
backers originally wanted
> them used.  A removable module whose connection to a
device I establish
> (and can de-establish, assuming the presence of a
tamper-respondent barrier
> such as a sensor-enabled computer case to legitimize
that activity) is a
> very useful thing to me, as it facilitates all sorts of
useful
> applications.  The utility of the original intent has
already been widely
> criticised, so I won't repeat that here.     

  If you can remove it, what's to stop you plugging it into
another machine
and copying all your DRM-encumbered material to that
machine?

  It's supposed to identify the machine, not the user. 
Sounds to me like what
you want is a personally identifying cert that you could
carry around on a usb
key...


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

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Re: Free Rootkit with Every New Intel Machine
user name
2007-06-26 11:20:23
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007, Hal Finney wrote:
> The idea of putting a TPM on a smart card or other
removable device is
> even more questionable from this perspective.  A TPM
which communicates
> via an easily accessible and tamperable bus is almost
useless for the
> security concepts behind the Trusted Computing Group
architecture.

Even if a TPM is soldered to the motherboard it does not
mean
that unsoldering is an esoteric art. There is a difference
between what media hypes about TPM and what TCG technical
documents say [1]:

   It is not expected that a TPM will be able to defeat
   sophisticated physical attacks.

> The exception might be if there were additional
hardware to encrypt
> the bus, but that is not part of the standard spec.

Encrypted bus requires encryption cores on both ends and
key
distribution resistant to MitM attacks. I suspect that if
you
system already has so many crypto blocks in it, it would be
cheaper to implement TPM inside.

> So this would allow a removable TPM but it has to be
"logically" bound
> to the motherboard via cryptography, presumably
something like an
> encrypted bus.

To logically bound TPM to the motherboard it is enough for
BIOS
`loader' that hashes the rest of the BIOS, to include unique
ID of the
motherboard into the hash.


[1] <https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.
org/groups/tpm/TPM_1_2_Changes_final.pdf>


-- 
Regards,
ASK

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