Feature request: do-as-if-alive for POP and IMAP

Would it be easily possible to create a "management
mode" for dbmail? 
I'd like to set a flag which causes all POP/IMAP connections
to succeed 
but return "OK, no messages" during short offline
cycles, in order not 
to receive customer calls for a 5 minute offline period.

mfg zmi
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Michael Monnerie wrote:
> Would it be easily possible to create a
"management mode" for dbmail? 
> I'd like to set a flag which causes all POP/IMAP
connections to succeed 
> but return "OK, no messages" during short
offline cycles, in order not 
> to receive customer calls for a 5 minute offline
period.

What is supposed to be offline, and what is returning the OK
messages then?


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____________________________________________________________
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  Paul Stevens                                      paul at
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On Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 Paul J Stevens wrote:
> What is supposed to be offline, and what is returning
the OK messages
> then?

I want to take the DB server offline, so before that I
switch 
on "management mode" on the mailserver. Example:
/etc/init.d/dbmail stop
/etc/init.d/dbmail-maint start
(or better: dbmail-util --maintenance=on)

This starts daemons listening on 110,143 etc. which simulate
a POP/IMAP 
connection, just returning OK on all activities (USER, PASS,
LIST, 
etc.). It should do as if there are just no new messages.
Like this, it 
should be possible to "survive" some offline
minutes without users 
recognizing it. Our current problem is that even some
seconds offline 
triggers user calls.

mfg zmi
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Michael Monnerie wrote:
> On Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 Paul J Stevens wrote:
>> What is supposed to be offline, and what is
returning the OK messages
>> then?
> 
> I want to take the DB server offline, so before that I
switch 
> on "management mode" on the mailserver.
Example:
> /etc/init.d/dbmail stop
> /etc/init.d/dbmail-maint start
> (or better: dbmail-util --maintenance=on)
> 
> This starts daemons listening on 110,143 etc. which
simulate a POP/IMAP 
> connection, just returning OK on all activities (USER,
PASS, LIST, 
> etc.). It should do as if there are just no new
messages. Like this, it 
> should be possible to "survive" some offline
minutes without users 
> recognizing it. Our current problem is that even some
seconds offline 
> triggers user calls.

That way lies madness, and poorly written IMAP clients (I'm
looking at 
you, Eudora!) doing long mailbox resync processes, along
with losing 
track of some mailboxes and on and on. In a POP scenario,
there's not 
really any issue with something like that, but not so with
IMAP. In the 
clients that stay connected, the users notice because their
mail clients 
tell them that they got disconnected from the server, which
will still 
happen with your theoretical fake dbmail daemon.

Now, if you're an ISP that only offers POP service, why not
just whip up 
a little perl script that pretends to be a POP server that
you run when 
you take dbmail offline?

-Nathan
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Michael,

Wouldnt it be easier *not* to take your database offline?


Uwe Kiewel wrote:
> Michael Monnerie schrieb:
>> On Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 Paul J Stevens wrote:
>>   
>>> What is supposed to be offline, and what is
returning the OK messages
>>> then?
>>>     
>>
>> I want to take the DB server offline, so before
that I switch 
>> on "management mode" on the mailserver.
Example:
>> /etc/init.d/dbmail stop
>> /etc/init.d/dbmail-maint start
>> (or better: dbmail-util --maintenance=on)
>>
>> This starts daemons listening on 110,143 etc. which
simulate a POP/IMAP 
>> connection, just returning OK on all activities
(USER, PASS, LIST, 
>> etc.).
> well, but...
> 
> If you put dbmail-* to maintenance mode due to database
maintenance, how
> dbmail can check username/password?
> 
> Regrads,
>     Uwe
> 
> 
>
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> 
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____
  Paul Stevens                                      paul at
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  NET FACILITIES GROUP                     GPG/PGP:
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On Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 Nathan Mills wrote:
> In a POP scenario, there's not
> really any issue with something like that, but not so
with IMAP. In
> the clients that stay connected, the users notice
because their mail
> clients tell them that they got disconnected from the
server, which
> will still happen with your theoretical fake dbmail
daemon.

Not if it's a built-in feature of dbmail, to just switch to
maintenance 
mode without any breakdown. For POP it's clear to me, just
answer OK to 
USER,PASS and 0 to LIST, that looks like no new e-mail
arrived.
I'm not sure about IMAP, I don't speak that protocol so
can't tell what 
to do in order to "fake" functionality. Maybe
"IDLE" or "BUSY" or 
something?

> Now, if you're an ISP that only offers POP service, why
not just whip
> up a little perl script that pretends to be a POP
server that you run
> when you take dbmail offline?

We're IMAP also, otherwise I wouldn't care... 

mfg zmi
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On Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 Uwe Kiewel wrote:
> If you put dbmail-* to maintenance mode due to database
maintenance,
> how dbmail can check username/password?

Not at all. Just answer "OK" to all those queries.
I don't mind for this 
short period.

mfg zmi
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On Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 Paul J Stevens wrote:
> Wouldnt it be easier *not* to take your database
offline?

Yes of course, but you know, that's a dream sometimes. Last
week we 
moved the DB from a RAID6 to RAID10 after a hardware
upgrade, this 
caused a (short) downtime. Yes we want to have a replicated
DB on 
another server, but that doesn't exist ATM. And even if: the
option to 
have a maintenance mode to fool clients is good to have, for
example 
for kernel or shared lib updates that require a reboot. Or,
as we are 
virtualized, a reboot to use more RAM at the client
machine.

It just comes to my mind, that SMTP AUTH requests should not
receive an 
OK, but rather a 4xx message, so no e-mail can be sent
during that 
time.

mfg zmi
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Michael Monnerie wrote:
> On Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 Paul J Stevens wrote:
>> Wouldnt it be easier *not* to take your database
offline?
> 
> Yes of course, but you know, that's a dream sometimes.
Last week we 
> moved the DB from a RAID6 to RAID10 after a hardware
upgrade, this 
> caused a (short) downtime. Yes we want to have a
replicated DB on 
> another server, but that doesn't exist ATM. And even
if: the option to 
> have a maintenance mode to fool clients is good to
have, for example 
> for kernel or shared lib updates that require a reboot.


The right thing to do is not to be lazy, and do all this at
4am of our local 
time zone. I bet you will not receive _any_ complaints.
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