What to do with koshell for KOffice 2.0?

Hi everybody,

now that everything is being planned for KOffice 2.0, I'd
like to bring a small and cute application to your
attention: koshell ;)
What to do with it for KOffice 2.0? To be realistic, I see
only two choices:
1) Rewrite the whole application from scratch, using modern
design patterns to make sure it will be maintainable for the
next years
or
2) drop it completely.

Some of you know I'm about to start my diploma thesis in
the next few weeks (hopefully) so I won't have that much
time - I was absent already for quite a while. 

What's your opinion, I'd love to hear it! 

Cheers and thanks,
Sven
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On Sunday 16 July 2006 20:13, svenslueppken.de wrote:
> now that everything is being planned for KOffice 2.0,
I'd like to bring
> a small and cute application to your attention: koshell
;) What to do
> with it for KOffice 2.0? To be realistic, I see only
two choices: 1)
> Rewrite the whole application from scratch, using
modern design
> patterns to make sure it will be maintainable for the
next years or
> 2) drop it completely.

Whats wrong with
3) don't touch, just port.

I mean; why remove or rewrite when it actually does what
people want it to 
do.  After all, a halfway decent app is better than no app
at all.
-- 
Thomas Zander
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Hi Sven,

I think it should be dropped, because to me it seems very
much like a
"hey - look at how neat our framework is"
tech-demo - rather than
something which is actually useful for our users.  The
introductory
comments in the docbook for KOffice Workspace also suggest
that this
is the case.

Regards,
Robert.

On 16/07/06, svenslueppken.de <svenslueppken.de> wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> now that everything is being planned for KOffice 2.0,
I'd like to bring a small and cute application to your
attention: koshell ;)
> What to do with it for KOffice 2.0? To be realistic, I
see only two choices:
> 1) Rewrite the whole application from scratch, using
modern design patterns to make sure it will be maintainable
for the next years
> or
> 2) drop it completely.
>
> Some of you know I'm about to start my diploma thesis
in the next few weeks (hopefully) so I won't have that much
time - I was absent already for quite a while.
>
> What's your opinion, I'd love to hear it! 
>
> Cheers and thanks,
> Sven
> _______________________________________________
> koffice-devel mailing list
> koffice-develkde.org
> h
ttps://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/koffice-devel
>
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> Whats wrong with
> 3) don't touch, just port.
>
> I mean; why remove or rewrite when it actually does
what people want it to
> do.  After all, a halfway decent app is better than no
app at all.

because it doesn't do it ?

there are quiete a few issue with koshell, all of them can
be solve, I am 
sure 

1) one the "application bar" is in a middle of
embedded apps, try to create a 
new kword (or krita, or kivio or ...) and you will have a
toolbar on the left 
of the application bar
2) the whole things doesn't feel consistent : open a kword,
kspread and 
kpresenter document (default settings, I didn't touch them
at least), the 
three applications have same functions in the toolbar in
different positions, 
sidebare are not consiten kword/kpresenter vs kplato, etc...
When it's in 
different application it's ok, but inside the same
application, it doesn't 
feel right
3) what about the result of the contest ? Do we consider
that we will do it in 
a different application or within koshell ?

-- 
--- Cyrille Berger ---
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> I think it should be dropped, because to me it seems
very much like a
> "hey - look at how neat our framework is"
tech-demo - rather than
> something which is actually useful for our users.  
well there are quiete a lot of users who comes on #koffice
and say "I heard 
there is an application that allow to embed all koffice
application ?" 
or "does it exist ?" So I think there are users
who wants to use it, and are 
happy that koshell exists, it would be better to work on
improving it than 
just droping it.

-- 
--- Cyrille Berger ---
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Cyrille Berger said the following, On 2006-07-16 21:19:

>>I think it should be dropped, because to me it seems
very much like a
>>"hey - look at how neat our framework
is" tech-demo - rather than
>>something which is actually useful for our users.  

YEAH For me the Workspace is a bit like a tech preview demo
for KoParts, and 
from users perspective a bit redundant thing since we
already have kicker. A 
bit like a copy-paste from MS Binder...

> well there are quiete a lot of users who comes on
#koffice and say "I heard 
> there is an application that allow to embed all koffice
application ?" 

I think it's valuable _if_ it works as the competition so
AFAIK: storing 
multiple files (of multiple types) together like in a MS
Binder.

But hey, isn't Martin Pfeiffer's workflow idea 
(http:/
/koffice.org/competition/gui1results.php) going to make
the koffice 
workspace impl. obsolete one day (not koffice workspace idea
itself)?

-- 
regards / pozdrawiam,
  Jaroslaw Staniek / OpenOffice Polska

Sponsored by OpenOffice Polska to work on
* Kexi & KOffice: http://www.kexi-project.o
rg | http://koffice.org/kexi
* KDE3 & KDE4 Libraries For Developing MS Windows
Applications:
                   http://www.kdelibs.com
See also:
* Kexi For MS Windows: htt
p://kexi.pl/wiki/index.php/Kexi_for_MS_Windows
* Kexi Support:        http://www.k
exi-project.org/support.html
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On Sunday 16 July 2006 20:38, Thomas Zander wrote:
> On Sunday 16 July 2006 20:13, svenslueppken.de wrote:
> > now that everything is being planned for KOffice
2.0, I'd like to bring
> > a small and cute application to your attention:
koshell ;) What to do
> > with it for KOffice 2.0? To be realistic, I see
only two choices: 1)
> > Rewrite the whole application from scratch, using
modern design
> > patterns to make sure it will be maintainable for
the next years or
> > 2) drop it completely.
>
> Whats wrong with
> 3) don't touch, just port.
and make it use plain flake shapes? would that be possible?
because a formula 
and a chart and also a spread sheet might be supported as
plain flake. There 
are a lot of possibilities, koshell could be a demonstration
for a more 
future office workspace.
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You list some problems that are not show stoppers and IMO
fall in the 
category 'halfway decent app'.

In other words; there is value in shipping it as is. And if
someone fixes 
these issues or provides a replacement thats all even
better.
But we should not talk about removing it until a sufficient
replacement is 
available.

On Sunday 16 July 2006 21:17, Cyrille Berger wrote:
> > Whats wrong with
> > 3) don't touch, just port.
> >
> > I mean; why remove or rewrite when it actually
does what people want
> > it to do.  After all, a halfway decent app is
better than no app at
> > all.
>
> because it doesn't do it ?
>
> there are quiete a few issue with koshell, all of them
can be solve, I
> am sure 
>
> 1) one the "application bar" is in a middle
of embedded apps, try to
> create a new kword (or krita, or kivio or ...) and you
will have a
> toolbar on the left of the application bar
> 2) the whole things doesn't feel consistent : open a
kword, kspread and
> kpresenter document (default settings, I didn't touch
them at least),
> the three applications have same functions in the
toolbar in different
> positions, sidebare are not consiten kword/kpresenter
vs kplato, etc...
> When it's in different application it's ok, but
inside the same
> application, it doesn't feel right
> 3) what about the result of the contest ? Do we
consider that we will
> do it in a different application or within koshell ?

-- 
Thomas Zander
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On Sunday 16 July 2006 20:54, Martin Pfeiffer wrote:
> > Whats wrong with
> > 3) don't touch, just port.
>
> and make it use plain flake shapes? would that be
possible? because a
> formula and a chart and also a spread sheet might be
supported as plain
> flake. There are a lot of possibilities, koshell could
be a
> demonstration for a more future office workspace.

You misunderstood what flake is; its not an application or a
part and a 
flake does not have menus of any kind.  So, no, this is not
possible.

Parts still fit best there.
-- 
Thomas Zander
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On Sunday 16 July 2006 20:52, Robert Knight wrote:
> I think it should be dropped, because to me it seems
very much like a
> "hey - look at how neat our framework is"
tech-demo - rather than
> something which is actually useful for our users.  The
introductory
> comments in the docbook for KOffice Workspace also
suggest that this
> is the case.

I'd say that the handbook is in need of an update, then


There are quite a number of requests for tabbed editing of
multiple 
documents where one tab can be a text and another a
spreadsheet.

Removing that functionality just for the sake of it would be
hurting our 
users.
-- 
Thomas Zander
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