Re: ..- -. .. - -.--

I have to second this. Unity badly needs a dedicated 2D
sprite engine
(planes-based). That, and editor features to support it.

However, there's not likely much hope, as mr. Higgins and
others from OTEE
have stated that developers should look elsewhere for 2D
projects.

/rasmus



On 01/02/07 9:16, "taumel" <taumelmarune.de> wrote:

> 
>> Where's the 2d sprite engine. Useless!
> 
> You mean a 2D lib for the 3D engine or do you mean a
cpu pixel driven
> engine? Second wouldn't make much sense for a 3D
engine, the first
> actually would be nice to have to 2D projects, beside
of the slow
> mess director is able to. As there is a orthogonal
camera mode you
> can do this to a certain degree already on your own but
you'll have
> to get your hands a dirty in order to get proper
"pixel"-like exact
> collisions and stuff like that.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> taumel
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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>
> However, there's not likely much hope, as mr. Higgins
and others  
> from OTEE
> have stated that developers should look elsewhere for
2D projects.

I think it's a priority thing. There are already a lot of
things on  
the to-do list but then it depends on how much really would
like to  
have this.

If there would be meaningful interest in such a feature i
would say  
it's likely to make it's way into unity in the future. So
it's also  
up to the users to request such a feature if they really
need it.  
Personally i would like to have it as this always handy to
have and  
if you've ever used BlitzMax you know that you can do
amazing things  
with a fast hardware accelerated 3d/2d engine. Physics
engine would  
be available too if you're just fine with limiting the
z-value to 0.


Regards,

taumel
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Thursday, February 1, 2007, 10:51:41 AM, Rasmus wrote:

RK> I have to second this. Unity badly needs a dedicated
2D sprite engine
RK> (planes-based). That, and editor features to support
it.

RK> However, there's not likely much hope, as mr. Higgins
and others from OTEE
RK> have stated that developers should look elsewhere for
2D projects.

So how do people generally go about doing all the
'peripheral' 2D stuff within the game, like title screen,
define keys, instructions pages, high score board (and
submission page), send to a friend page... etc. I know some
games implement menus over the 3d screen, but doing all that
lot using a 3d engine seems very awkward, and besides, our
clients usually want the kind of animated interfaces which
could only really be done in flash. What if I want to use
animated flash interfaces up to the point that the game
starts? (as I currently do with all my games)

Maybe I should ask this on a Unity forum 



- Ben

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 > Honestly if i hav to choose i would favor a 2d command
set
 > much much more than a flash implementation as most of
the
 > stuff can be done another way. A 2d command set would
 > really enlarge the usage of unity, flash would be nice
but
 > nothing more...

Note that I never asserted that those were equivalent
features nor that 
we're considering a Flash support implementation instead of
a 2D command 
set, it's like comparing apples and oranges. Also note that
the work 
required to do each of those is significantly different,
offering Flash 
support is far simpler than implementing a proper 2D command
set. I 
don't see if ever being a choice of "do we offer Flash
support or a 2D 
command set?" due to the fact that they are different
beasts, offering 
different capabilities and with vastly different levels of
work required.

Cheers,
Tom Higgins - Product Evangelist
http://www.unity3d.com

blog: http://unity3d.com/blog
s/tom/
im: Otee Tom (aim)


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>
> I think the swiss army knife thing has been a bad path
for a while  
> now... Let's go with the analogy a bit, ask yourself
this: when do  
> you ever actually use a swiss army knife? When I need a
pair of  
> scissors, I go get scissors. When I need a corkscrew
for my wine I  
> go get a proper corkscrew/bottle opener. The only time
I use the  
> swiss army knife (which is capable at many things but
excels at  
> none) is when I'm stuck in the woods with no proper
tools about, so  
> I grab the only thing left that's handy... Is that the
way you'd  
> like to describe the tool you use? Not me. I'm not
saying that  
> products should focus on one thing and one thing only,
rather I'm  
> saying that trying to be good at too many things can
lead to  
> mediocrity across the board. So for now we'll focus on
excelling at  
> 3D, and leave the 2D development effort for a later
time when it's  
> more appropriate and won't dilute our mainline effort.
>

You know a hw accelereted 2D/3D (or the other way around)
engine does  
make a lot of sense as there simply is no other reasonable
option  
around for online published stuff. For offline sure there's
BlitzMax  
for instance or a hand of other tools but for  
online...nada...zero...zip...and as already stated there are
a lot of  
2d games to be made and play. So what do you take if you
want to do a  
modern 2D game and want to publish it online?

Using flash or directors outdated sprite engine? Not if
you're after  
a modern game. So this leaves you writing your own 2d/3d
engine in  
whatever you use. Mayb it be director, unity virtools. It
would be a  
real enhancement and open the tool for a lot of more games
and users  
in my opinion.

Honestly if i hav to choose i would favor a 2d command set
much much  
more than a flash implementation as most of the stuff can be
done  
another way. A 2d command set would really enlarge the usage
of  
unity, flash would be nice but nothing more...


Regards,

taumel

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 > However, there's not likely much hope...

As Taumel already clarified it's a question of priorities.
First and 
foremost we're developing a 3D game development tool and
player, and as 
such our efforts are focused in that direction. It's not
that 2D 
elements aren't seen as worthy or necessary, it just that
they don't 
rate high enough on the feature list to be worked on for now
(outside of 
our GUI Texture abilities that are already present). We're a
1.6.1 
product and admit there are some gaps in our game plan, but
we're 
aggressively working to close those gaps and over time we
will keep 
filling out the product's feature set to meet the demands of
our customers.


 > But maybe the swiss army knife nature of tools such as
Director
 > is becoming a thing of the past? Oh wait, there's that
thar Game
 > Builder....

I think the swiss army knife thing has been a bad path for a
while 
now... Let's go with the analogy a bit, ask yourself this:
when do you 
ever actually use a swiss army knife? When I need a pair of
scissors, I 
go get scissors. When I need a corkscrew for my wine I go
get a proper 
corkscrew/bottle opener. The only time I use the swiss army
knife (which 
is capable at many things but excels at none) is when I'm
stuck in the 
woods with no proper tools about, so I grab the only thing
left that's 
handy... Is that the way you'd like to describe the tool you
use? Not 
me. I'm not saying that products should focus on one thing
and one thing 
only, rather I'm saying that trying to be good at too many
things can 
lead to mediocrity across the board. So for now we'll focus
on excelling 
at 3D, and leave the 2D development effort for a later time
when it's 
more appropriate and won't dilute our mainline effort.


 > > What if I want to use animated flash interfaces
...

 > and i dunno if Flash support will make it's way into
it.

During my visit to OTEE HQ in December we talked a lot about
just that 
sort of feature as it offers a lot of potential to those
using Unity. No 
decision has been made just yet but so far the interest
level is 
actually quite high...


Cheers,
Tom Higgins - Product Evangelist
http://www.unity3d.com

blog: http://unity3d.com/blog
s/tom/
im: Otee Tom (aim)

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Not to poop on anybody's parade but I'm looking forwards to
Jules's  
Otoy.

Waiting for edge antialiasing but till then...

http://www.otoy.com

On Feb 1, 2007, at 11:36 AM, taumel wrote:

>>
>> I think the swiss army knife thing has been a bad
path for a while  
>> now... Let's go with the analogy a bit, ask
yourself this: when do  
>> you ever actually use a swiss army knife? When I
need a pair of  
>> scissors, I go get scissors. When I need a
corkscrew for my wine I  
>> go get a proper corkscrew/bottle opener. The only
time I use the  
>> swiss army knife (which is capable at many things
but excels at  
>> none) is when I'm stuck in the woods with no proper
tools about,  
>> so I grab the only thing left that's handy... Is
that the way  
>> you'd like to describe the tool you use? Not me.
I'm not saying  
>> that products should focus on one thing and one
thing only, rather  
>> I'm saying that trying to be good at too many
things can lead to  
>> mediocrity across the board. So for now we'll focus
on excelling  
>> at 3D, and leave the 2D development effort for a
later time when  
>> it's more appropriate and won't dilute our mainline
effort.
>>
>
> You know a hw accelereted 2D/3D (or the other way
around) engine  
> does make a lot of sense as there simply is no other
reasonable  
> option around for online published stuff. For offline
sure there's  
> BlitzMax for instance or a hand of other tools but for 

> online...nada...zero...zip...and as already stated
there are a lot  
> of 2d games to be made and play. So what do you take if
you want to  
> do a modern 2D game and want to publish it online?
>
> Using flash or directors outdated sprite engine? Not if
you're  
> after a modern game. So this leaves you writing your
own 2d/3d  
> engine in whatever you use. Mayb it be director, unity
virtools. It  
> would be a real enhancement and open the tool for a lot
of more  
> games and users in my opinion.
>
> Honestly if i hav to choose i would favor a 2d command
set much  
> much more than a flash implementation as most of the
stuff can be  
> done another way. A 2d command set would really enlarge
the usage  
> of unity, flash would be nice but nothing more...
>
>
> Regards,
>
> taumel
>
> _______________________________________________
> dirGames-L mailing list  -  dirGames-Lnuttybar.drama.uga.edu
> http://nuttybar.drama.uga.edu/mailman/listinfo/dirgames
-l

- Zav
http://goat
s.com/store/zoom/internet.html

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>
> Note that I never asserted that those were equivalent
features nor  
> that we're considering a Flash support implementation
instead of a  
> 2D command set, it's like comparing apples and oranges.
Also note  
> that the work required to do each of those is
significantly  
> different, offering Flash support is far simpler than
implementing  
> a proper 2D command set. I don't see if ever being a
choice of "do  
> we offer Flash support or a 2D command set?" due
to the fact that  
> they are different beasts, offering different
capabilities and with  
> vastly different levels of work required.

Hmm i think it depends on what exactly of Flash you want to
implement  
and which 2D commands you would offer.
If i remember things right from when i was looking at parts
of  
BlitzMax's 2D GL implementation this wasn't this shocking,
so i dunno  
if this would really be the case.

Zav
I remember a thread a year ago or so talking about otoy. I
haven't  
seen anything since then beside of actually the design of
the website  
has changed...


Regards,

taumel
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Am 01.02.2007 um 18:47 schrieb Zav - Alex Zavatone:

> Not to poop on anybody's parade but I'm looking
forwards to Jules's  
> Otoy.
>
> Waiting for edge antialiasing but till then...
>
> http://www.otoy.com

hm, aren't we looking to the same screenshots since years
now ?
I can't see much progress.
Ok, there's a 2006 speech, but hey...
I've not seen anything other than screenshots from otoy.
what am I missing?
where is the webbrowser plugin?
is there a beta version finally after years ?

If I do not miss anything, than I sure say, that I'd be very
careful  
with a technology, which doesn't show much progress in
years.
for that matter there's already director :-P

--------------------------
   |||
ażex



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