SANE2 commitment

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 19:33:51 +0100
Frank Zago <frankzago.net> wrote:

> >  some people has committed the time necessary to
> >  port to sane2 the first bunch of drivers.
> >
> >  we are currently missing coders for
> >  - all of sanei/* (i'll take sanei_tcp)
> >  - the build system (configure, makefile et al) 
> >  - X11 frontends
> >   

> I believe the right approach is to fork the existing
tree and start
> fixing and adding functionalities to it. That way
you'll keep something
> that works all the time, saving many headaches.
> As or for the sane2 standard, it's only just a piece of
paper right now.
> Coding should determine what will stay and what will go
away, not the
> opposite (cathedral vs bazaar).

 so you're saying to declare current sane as stable,
 fork it and add features to the new tree, making
 it "morphing" into something that will be the
next sane?

-- 

 Best regards,

 Alessandro Zummo,
  Tower Technologies - Turin, Italy

  http://www.towertech.it


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Alessandro Zummo wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 19:33:51 +0100
> Frank Zago <frankzago.net> wrote:
>
>   
>>>  some people has committed the time necessary
to
>>>  port to sane2 the first bunch of drivers.
>>>
>>>  we are currently missing coders for
>>>  - all of sanei/* (i'll take sanei_tcp)
>>>  - the build system (configure, makefile et al)

>>>  - X11 frontends
>>>   
>>>       
>
>   
>> I believe the right approach is to fork the
existing tree and start
>> fixing and adding functionalities to it. That way
you'll keep something
>> that works all the time, saving many headaches.
>> As or for the sane2 standard, it's only just a
piece of paper right now.
>> Coding should determine what will stay and what
will go away, not the
>> opposite (cathedral vs bazaar).
>>     
>
>  so you're saying to declare current sane as stable,
>  fork it and add features to the new tree, making
>  it "morphing" into something that will be
the next sane?
>   
Yes. I think sane1 can evolve into sane2 step by step so as
to keep a
working  tree.


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On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 20:25:01 +0100
Frank Zago <sanezago.net> wrote:

> >  so you're saying to declare current sane as
stable,
> >  fork it and add features to the new tree, making
> >  it "morphing" into something that will
be the next sane?
> >   
> Yes. I think sane1 can evolve into sane2 step by step
so as to keep a
> working  tree.

 well, I'm open to this possibility. I just need to
 add a new sane frame format after all 


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 Best regards,

 Alessandro Zummo,
  Tower Technologies - Turin, Italy

  http://www.towertech.it


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My point of view is that it is better to identify the
problems you
wish to solve my creating a new version of sane that the
current
version of sane can not be developed into.

The first problem I've noted with sane is that it is a
little bit all
mixed up, detection mixed with scaning, paraport mixed with
usb. not
good.

If you are going to start a new direction and really give it
some
weight behind it I suggest the following:

For device detection and management use HAL, update hal dbus
code with
all existing detection and status code which will keep these
devices
happy, enable the modification of the hal xml as a simple
way of
keeping track of which scanners work with which backends
too, removing
this from the backend code is a must.

You can then change your clients to use hal and simply call
dbus
commands to scan etc.

Paraport scanners need continued support, we don't just drop
support
because something better has come a long. we should try to
work with
the hal team and how their dealing with passive devices on
para and
serial ports, we might be able to come up with something
good that
allows the best combination of user selection and computer
detection.

For the drivers them sevles, obviously use of libusb is
good, but the
idea that libsane is a background package which doesn't
offer anything
it's self is quite desirable. giving distributers the option
of
installing some or all scanner backends. as long as device
detection
etc is handled by hal then it won't even be a problem to
have sane
request the right backend be installed upon use.

You can tell I've given this a lot of thought, sane was
going to be my
next project to work on because I was sick to death of
setting up
scanners with it.

On 12/17/06, Alessandro Zummo <azummo-liststowertech.it> wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 20:25:01 +0100
> Frank Zago <sanezago.net> wrote:
>
> > >  so you're saying to declare current sane as
stable,
> > >  fork it and add features to the new tree,
making
> > >  it "morphing" into something that
will be the next sane?
> > >
> > Yes. I think sane1 can evolve into sane2 step by
step so as to keep a
> > working  tree.
>
>  well, I'm open to this possibility. I just need to
>  add a new sane frame format after all 
>
>
> --
>
>  Best regards,
>
>  Alessandro Zummo,
>   Tower Technologies - Turin, Italy
>
>   http://www.towertech.it
>
>
> --
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>

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Hi Martin,

Il giorno dom, 17/12/2006 alle 19.52 +0000, Martin Owens ha
scritto:
[...]
> For device detection and management use HAL, update hal
dbus code with
> all existing detection and status code which will keep
these devices
> happy, enable the modification of the hal xml as a
simple way of
> keeping track of which scanners work with which
backends too, removing
> this from the backend code is a must.
> 
> You can then change your clients to use hal and simply
call dbus
> commands to scan etc.
[...]

That would be really nice. I wonder if this will only work
on linux.
What about *BSD, Solaris and Windows?

Bye,
Giuseppe


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> >
> > You can then change your clients to use hal and
simply call dbus
> > commands to scan etc.
> [...]
>
> That would be really nice. I wonder if this will only
work on linux.
> What about *BSD, Solaris and Windows?

I don't know about solaris, I know hal is being used in a
number of
linux distributions but not even all of them. windows has
it's own hal
and less is known about it.

It might end up being a separate project for integrating
sane with hal
in order to repackage sane for certain linux distributions
that can
take advantage of newer device systems.

>
> Bye,
> Giuseppe

Best Regards, Martin

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Hi,

I fully agree with you. I sent a message to the list saying
similar
things. I attach you the mail. But i have problem sending to
the mailing
list. (Delivery system fail 5.4.0).

Étienne.
-- 
Verso l'Alto !
From bersace03laposte.net Sun Dec 17 17:48:53 2006
Subject: Re: [sane-devel] SANE2 commitment
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C9tienne?= Bersac <bersace03laposte.net>
To: Alessandro Zummo <azummo-liststowertech.it>
Cc: sane-devellists.alioth.debian.org
In-Reply-To: <20061217172351.70067897inspiron>
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hi all,

I'm working on Gnome Scan and intend to be very active in
this realm in
the next year.

This may hurt some people here.

I want to bring scan support to hal. I intended to talk with
sane people
in january. I want in Gnome to use sane for access, not
probe/detection.

That's bad to probe each time you launch the app. I wonder
if we need a
kind of cups for scanner that use sane to access, receive
job request
and return stream of pictures. I wonder how to handle local
and
networked detection. I want to add avahi feature to scanner
share.

Likely, SANE 2 offer a new sane_open () prototype that allow
to get
device description without doing the probe. But how can hal
know the
sane device name ? I would like to add a
"scanner.sane.name" field or
similar into hal scanner device in order to allow app to use
directly
SANE (basically, a scaner cups will do that). Is this
possible with SANE
1 ? If not, how does SANE 2 help for that ?

Some of you may be attached to the double work of sane :
device support,
device probe. But i really think SANE must add a way for
developer to
handle device detection according to the target system
standard (e.g.
hal, windows, Solaris, etc.).

I do not want sane to drop sane_get_devices (). Would be
nice to get
sane device name from vid/pid or some other info an OS/hal
can give.
That's easy to implement a simple hal addon that handle the
filling of
scanner.sane.name field.

I wish you will understand that need.

Kind regards,
=C3=89tienne.
--=20
Verso l'Alto !

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Hi,

> That would be really nice. I wonder if this will only
work on linux.
> What about *BSD, Solaris and Windows?

I think that SANE must implement a modular OS <-> SANE
API that allow OS
to ask SANE to load a driver for one device and the monitor
buttons, …
SANE should then also implement a "legacy" probe
mecanism for other OSes
or other purpose (distro not shiping HAL, etc.).

Étienne.
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