Bug#292330: use UTF-8 by default

Hi,

wouldn't it be possible to at least make the en_US.UTF-8
locale forcibly
generated, so that it can't be deselected by
dpkg-reconfigure locales?

If this one isn't installed, many apps break when I ssh from
an OS that
uses exclusively UTF-8 to a Debian box.

Thanks!
//mirabile
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I believe no one can invent an algorithm. One just happens
to hit upon it
when God enlightens him. Or only God invents algorithms, we
merely copy them.
If you don't believe in God, just consider God as Nature if
you won't deny
existence.		-- Coywolf Qi Hunt


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also sprach Thorsten Glaser <tgmirbsd.de>
[2007.06.16.0013 +0100]:
> wouldn't it be possible to at least make the
en_US.UTF-8 locale forcibly
> generated, so that it can't be deselected by
dpkg-reconfigure locales?

Why en_US? Why not en_GB?

> If this one isn't installed, many apps break when I ssh
from an OS that
> uses exclusively UTF-8 to a Debian box.

etch uses UTF-8 by default. And you can always
dpkg-reconfigure.

-- 
 .''`.   martin f. krafft <madduckdebian.org>
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On Fri, Jun 15, 2007 at 11:13:29PM +0000, Thorsten Glaser
<tgmirbsd.de> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> wouldn't it be possible to at least make the
en_US.UTF-8 locale forcibly
> generated, so that it can't be deselected by
dpkg-reconfigure locales?
> 
> If this one isn't installed, many apps break when I ssh
from an OS that
> uses exclusively UTF-8 to a Debian box.

They would break the same way if you'd ssh from an OS
exclusively using
anything else (let's say ISO-2022-JP). So should we generate
these too ?

Mike


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martin f krafft dixit:

>Why en_US? Why not en_GB?

Because how many applications come with en_US data files and
how
many speak proper English? I know it's sad, but it happens
to be
like this.

>> If this one isn't installed, many apps break when I
ssh from an OS that
>> uses exclusively UTF-8 to a Debian box.
>
>etch uses UTF-8 by default. And you can always
dpkg-reconfigure.

Funnily I cannot if I'm not root. And I've seen etch boxen
where
en_US.UTF-8 was not installed.

//mirabile
-- 
  "Using Lynx is like wearing a really good pair of
shades: cuts out
   the glare and harmful UV (ultra-vanity), and you feel
so-o-o COOL."
                                         -- Henry Nelson,
March 1999


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also sprach Thorsten Glaser <tgmirbsd.de>
[2007.06.16.1323 +0100]:
> Funnily I cannot if I'm not root. And I've seen etch
boxen where
> en_US.UTF-8 was not installed.

Then please bug the admin.

-- 
 .''`.   martin f. krafft <madduckdebian.org>
: :'  :  proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and
user
`. `'`   http://people.debia
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  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing
systems

MARTIN F KRAFFT DIXIT:

>ALSO SPRACH THORSTEN GLASER <TGMIRBSD.DE>
[2007.06.16.1323 +0100]:
>> FUNNILY I CANNOT IF I'M NOT ROOT. AND I'VE SEEN
ETCH BOXEN WHERE
>> EN_US.UTF-8 WAS NOT INSTALLED.
>
>THEN PLEASE BUG THE ADMIN.

THAT'S WHAT I DID, BUT THE IDEA IS NOT TO HAVE TO DO THAT.
(BESIDES,
"C" IS INSTALLED BY DEFAULT, SO WE NEED SOME KIND
OF "C.UTF-8", WHOSE
ROLE IS €“ FOR LC_CTYPE €“ USUALLY FULFILLED BY
EN_US.UTF-8.)

//MIRABILE
-- 
I BELIEVE NO ONE CAN INVENT AN ALGORITHM. ONE JUST HAPPENS
TO HIT UPON IT
WHEN GOD ENLIGHTENS HIM. OR ONLY GOD INVENTS ALGORITHMS, WE
MERELY COPY THEM.
IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD, JUST CONSIDER GOD AS NATURE IF
YOU WON'T DENY
EXISTENCE.		-- COYWOLF QI HUNT

ALSO SPRACH THORSTEN GLASER <TGMIRBSD.DE>
[2007.06.16.1528 +0100]:
> THAT'S WHAT I DID, BUT THE IDEA IS NOT TO HAVE TO DO
THAT. (BESIDES,
> "C" IS INSTALLED BY DEFAULT, SO WE NEED SOME
KIND OF "C.UTF-8", WHOSE
> ROLE IS €“ FOR LC_CTYPE €“ USUALLY FULFILLED BY
EN_US.UTF-8.)

PLEASE STOP CCING DEBIAN-PROJECT.

DOES A C.UTF-8 EXIST? IF YES, THEN THIS IS A SOUND
PROPOSAL,
I THINK.

-- 
 .''`.   MARTIN F. KRAFFT <MADDUCKDEBIAN.ORG>
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USER
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martin f krafft dixit:

>Please stop CCing debian-project.

I don't.

>Does a C.UTF-8 exist? If yes, then this is a sound
proposal,
>I think.

If not, one could probably easily create one. It would have
to
have all properties of C except for LC_CTYPE, which it
would
have to take from en_US.UTF-8.

//mirabile
-- 
I believe no one can invent an algorithm. One just happens
to hit upon it
when God enlightens him. Or only God invents algorithms, we
merely copy them.
If you don't believe in God, just consider God as Nature if
you won't deny
existence.		-- Coywolf Qi Hunt


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MARTIN F KRAFFT <MADDUCKDEBIAN.ORG> WRITES:

> ALSO SPRACH THORSTEN GLASER <TGMIRBSD.DE> [2007.06.16.1528 +0100]:
>> THAT'S WHAT I DID, BUT THE IDEA IS NOT TO HAVE TO
DO THAT. (BESIDES,
>> "C" IS INSTALLED BY DEFAULT, SO WE NEED
SOME KIND OF "C.UTF-8", WHOSE
>> ROLE IS €“ FOR LC_CTYPE €“ USUALLY FULFILLED BY
EN_US.UTF-8.)
>
> PLEASE STOP CCING DEBIAN-PROJECT.
>
> DOES A C.UTF-8 EXIST? IF YES, THEN THIS IS A SOUND
PROPOSAL,
> I THINK.

I BELIEVE THAT THE "C" LOCALE IS SUPPOSED TO BE
US_ASCII ONLY.

RATIONALE:

ISO C99 §7.4 (CTYPE "FUNCTIONS THAT HAVE
LOCALE-SPECIFIC ASPECTS ONLY
WHEN NOT IN THE "C" LOCALE...)  MANY OF THE
CONSTRAINTS THIS SECTION
FOR THE VARIOUS IS* FUNCTIONS WOULD RESTRICT THE
"C" LOCALE TO
US_ASCII.  UTF-8 WOULD BREAK THE CONSTRAINTS OVER E.G.
WHITESPACE
CHARACTERS, DIGITS, LOWERCASE CHARACTERS ETC..

I'M NOT SURE WHO WOULD WANT TO USE C.UTF-8.  IF YOU WANT A
BASIC
NON-UNICODE LOCALE WITH KNOWN BEHAVIOUR ON ALL PLATFORMS,
THE "C"
LOCALE IS USEFUL, PARTICULARLY WHEN DOING SERIALISATION
WHERE
LOCALISATION WOULD BREAK FILE FORMATS.  IF YOU WANT UNICODE,
WHY WOULD
YOU NOT JUST USE THE APPROPRIATE .UTF-8 LOCALE FOR YOUR
LANGUAGE/COUNTRY?


REGARDS,
ROGER

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ROGER LEIGH DIXIT:

>> DOES A C.UTF-8 EXIST? IF YES, THEN THIS IS A SOUND
PROPOSAL,
>> I THINK.
>
>I BELIEVE THAT THE "C" LOCALE IS SUPPOSED TO
BE US_ASCII ONLY.

THAT APPLIES TO €œC€ BUT NOT TO A HYPOTHETICAL €œC.UTF-8€
LOCALE,
WHICH WOULD HAVE TO BE SET VIA SETLOCALE(3) ANYWAY, AND
DIFFER
FROM €œC€ ONLY IN €œLC_CTYPE€ CATEGORY.

//MIRABILE
-- 
  €œUSING LYNX IS LIKE WEARING A REALLY GOOD PAIR OF SHADES:
CUTS OUT
   THE GLARE AND HARMFUL UV (ULTRA-VANITY), AND YOU FEEL
SO-O-O COOL.€
					 -- HENRY NELSON, MARCH 1999