Fragments ..

Hello all again - time to answer one of my questions 

My last mail complained that i couldn't get Ambulant to
repeat
a simple sequence of images - now i managed to discover that
the duration of the sequence must be explicitly given (in
seconds
or such .. just "indefinite" won't do).

In this connection: are there any references for execution
models/
computational aspects of Smil, or maybe Ambulant?
Declarative
is nice, but it must be computable, and actually computed ..

Anyway, what i wanted to do is this
images 
<http://nl.ijs.si/%7Edamjan/video/Pas
ijon/Demo/fragment/fragment-seq.smil>
but under user/menu control; that, however, does NOT work:
fragment 
<http://nl.ijs.si/%7Edamjan/video/Pasijon
/Demo/fragment/fragment.smil>
Ambulant obviously doesn't support the Fragment attribute -
it
doesn't show the redirection of the links in the status
line, and
doesn't intercept/redirect them .. strangely enough, the
Book
on SMIL also doesn't mention the Fragment attribute,
although
it's in 2.0 !?

My conclusion from this is that i can't link HTML and video
in
Ambulant both ways, so i must use a browser for the HTML,
and open Ambulant windows from it .. come to think of it,
it's
the natural solution too.

Strange stuff, this Smile,

Damjan B.

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On 1-Oct-2006, at 14:46 , Damjan Bojadziev wrote:

> Hello all again - time to answer one of my questions

>
> My last mail complained that i couldn't get Ambulant to
repeat
> a simple sequence of images - now i managed to discover
that
> the duration of the sequence must be explicitly given
(in seconds
> or such .. just "indefinite" won't do).

This is indeed an unfortunate aspect of SMIL, even I still
get bitten  
by it once in a while (and I've been involved with SMIL
since 1.0.  
Indefinite is not infinite... I'll bring this up in the SYMM
working  
group, it would be only a minor addition to SMIL, so the
question is  
really whether the benefits (allowing
dur="infinite" in stead of  
dur="10000000s") outweighs the desire to keep SMIL
as small as possible.
> In this connection: are there any references for
execution models/
> computational aspects of Smil, or maybe Ambulant?
Declarative
> is nice, but it must be computable, and actually
computed ..

Of course, the standard itself is the definitive reference.
The  
timing section can be daunting because of its size, plus the
umpteen  
variations of "duration" that are used, but once
you get in to it is  
rather well-written.

An alternative is the SMIL 2.0 book by Dick Bulterman (who
is,  
incidentally, also the Ambulant team leader), see
<http:// 
www.xmediasmil.net/> for details.
>
> Anyway, what i wanted to do is this
> images
> <http://nl.ijs.si/%7Edamjan/video/Pasijon/Demo/fr
agment/fragment- 
> seq.smil>
> but under user/menu control; that, however, does NOT
work:
> fragment
> <http://nl.ijs.si/%7Edamjan/video/Pasijon
/Demo/fragment/fragment.smil>
> Ambulant obviously doesn't support the Fragment
attribute - it
> doesn't show the redirection of the links in the status
line, and
> doesn't intercept/redirect them .. strangely enough,
the Book
> on SMIL also doesn't mention the Fragment attribute,
although
> it's in 2.0 !?

We haven't gotten around yet to implementing the fragment
attribute:-(
And, indeed, it seems that the book (assuming you're
referring to the  
same book that I mentioned above) also doesn't mention it...

Overriding linking behaviour in HTML is not trivial, but it
is  
doable: the Ambulant-Amis player (a Daisy player which uses
Ambulant  
as its SMIL engine, this is *not* the current release of
Amis yet but  
an experimental thing) does it for the IE HTML widget and I
assume  
it's also possible for others. I can't promise when/if we
get around  
to implementing this, but if someone is willing to do the
work: all  
the code is out there (and open source) and I'd be glad to
lend a hand.

An alternative could be to run the SMIL document embedded in
a web  
page (using the Ambulant plugin for Firefox or Safari) and
use a  
javascript: URL in the HTML, but unfortunately that also
doesn't work  
yet, because the current plugin doesn't give you enough
control:-(

--
Jack Jansen, <Jack.Jansencwi.nl>, http://www.cwi.nl/~jack
If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution
-- Emma  
Goldman


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>> to get Ambulant to repeat  a simple sequence of
images ..
>> the duration of the sequence must be explicitly
given
> This is indeed an unfortunate aspect of SMIL ..
hmm, you mean of Ambulant? Page 152 of The Book (Bulterman
& Rutledge)
makes a <par> repeat without stating any duration for
it
> timing section can be daunting .. the umpteen
variations of "duration"
The Book has a clear diagram of the variations on p. 132 ..
i like the book
very much, but
> see <http://www.xmediasmil.
net/> for details
i didn't find much there, like the "detail" of the
missing Fragment 
attribute ..
>> Ambulant doesn't show the redirection of the links
in the status line,
>> and doesn't intercept/redirect them .. strangely
enough, the Book
>> on SMIL also doesn't mention the Fragment
attribute, although
>> it's in 2.0 !?
> We haven't gotten around yet to implementing the
fragment attribute:-(
Ah, pity - an important attribute, if HTML is to be one of
the media being
synchronized - i was glad to see that at least Ambulant
supports HTML
(other non-commercial players apparently don't)

BTW, the Ambulant documentation is not clear on how much of
HTML
is supported, and it's unclear even on how much SMIL 2.1 it
supports
(one place says "entire 2.1 Language profile
supported", another place
"almost all of 2.1")
> I can't promise when/if we get around to implementing
this,
> but if someone is willing to do the work: all the code
is out there
> (and open source) and I'd be glad to lend a hand
right, that's the nice part about Ambulant, but i can't help
here, i'm just
a user/author, and a stickler for fragments, i mean details

> An alternative could be to run the SMIL document
embedded in a web page
> (using the Ambulant plugin for Firefox or Safari) and
use a 
> javascript: URL
> in the HTML, but unfortunately that also doesn't work
yet, because the
> current plugin doesn't give you enough control:-(
aha - javascripting i could even manage .. but for now, i'll
just use a 
browser
for the HTML, and have it launch players - i'll also try
HTML+TIME

To conclude with a smile: i'm starting a gallery of smiling
faces, 
reflecting my
mixed experience of the subject so far .. 

smiles <http://
nl.ijs.si/%7Edamjan/images/smiles/>

Damjan B.

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