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Thread: Re: Proposed Resolution to Issue 377 (NetSel NITs) (Section 4)




Re: Proposed Resolution to Issue 377 (NetSel NITs) (Section 4)
country flaguser name
United States
2007-03-01 23:38:09
I am enclosing a proposed cleanup of Section 4 to address
grammar and 
readability issues.

Recommended rewrite:

4.  Conclusions

   This document describes the network selection and
discovery problem.
   In the opinion of the authors, the major findings are as
follows:

   o  There is a need for additional work on access network
discovery, 
identifier
      selection, AAA routing, and payload routing.

   o  Credential selection and AAA routing are aspects of
the same problem,
      namely identity selection.

   o When considering selection among a large number of
potential
     access networks and points of attachment, the issues
described in
     the document become much harder to solve, in an
automated way,
     particularly if there are constraints on handoff
latency.

   o  The proliferation of network discovery technologies
within
      IEEE 802, IETF, and 3GPP has the potential to become
a
      significant problem going forward.  Without a unified
approach,
      multiple non-interoperable solutions may be deployed,
resulting in
      fragmentation.

   o  New link layer designs should include the efficient
distribution
       of network and realm information as a design
requirement.

   o  It may not be possible to solve all aspects of the
problem for
      legacy NAS devices on existing link layers.  Therefore
a phased
      approach may be more realistic.  For example, a
partial solution
      could be made available for existing link layers, with
a more
      complete solution requiring support for extensions.

   With respec to specific mechanisms for access
   network discovery and selection:

   o  Studies such as [MACScale] and [Velayos], demonstrate
that the IEEE
      802.11 Beacon/Probe Response mechanism has substantial
scaling
      issues, and as a result a single physical access point
is in
      practice limited to less than a dozen virtual APs on
each channel
      with IEEE 802.11b.

      The situation is improved substantially with
successors such as
      IEEE 802.11a which enable additional channels, thus
potentially
      increasing the number of potential virtual APs.

      However, even with these enhancements it is not
feasible to advertise
      more than 50 different networks, and probably less in
most 
circumstances.

      As a result, there appears to be a need to enhance the
scalability of
     IEEE 802.11 network advertisements.

   o  Work is underway in IEEE 802.1, IEEE 802.21 and the
IEEE
      802.11u to provide enhanced discovery functionality. 
Similarly,
      IEEE 802.1af has discussed addition of network
functionality to
      IEEE 802.1X.  However, neither IEEE 802.1ab nor IEEE
802.1af is
      likely to support fragmentation of advertisement
frames, so that
      the amount of data that can be transported will be
limited.

   o While IEEE 802.11k provides support for the Neighbor
Report,
      this only provides for gathering of information on
neighboring
     802.11 APs, not points of attachment supporting other
link layers.
     Solution to this problem would appear to require
coordination
     across IEEE 802 as well as between standards bodies.

   o  Given that EAP does not support fragmentation of
EAP-Request/
      Identity packets, the volume of "realm
hints" that can be fit with
      these packets is limited.  In addition, within IEEE
802.11,
      EAP packets can only be exchanged within State 3
(associated
      and authenticated).  As a result, use of EAP for realm
discovery
      may result in significant delays.   In addition, the
ability of EAP to
      carry Quality of Service information 
[I-D.groeting-eap-netselection-results]
      appears limited.  As a result, we believe that use of
EAP as described 
in
     [RFC4284] is not a sound long-term approach for
solution of
     the realm discovery problem.  Instead, we believe it is
more 
appropriate
     for this functionality to be handled within the link
layer,  so that 
the
     information can be available early in the handoff
process.

   o  Where link layer approaches are not available, higher
layer approaches
      can be considered.  A limitation of higher layer
solutions is that 
they
      can only optimize the movement of already connected
hosts, but
      cannot address scenarios where network discovery is
required for
      successful attachment.

      Higher layer alternatives worth considering include
the SEAMOBY CARD
      protocol [RFC4066], which enables advertisement of
network device
      capabilities over IP and Device Discovery Protocol
(DDP)
     [I-D.marques-ddp], which provides functionality
equivalent to
     IEEE 802.1ab using ASN.1 encoded advertisements sent to
a
     link-local scope multicast address.


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Re: Proposed Resolution to Issue 377 (NetSel NITs) (Section 4)
user name
2007-03-02 13:27:24
Hi Bernard,

One clarification - the scope of network discovery is not
just for
mobile users but also for nomadic users where network
discovery happens
just for initial attachment and not for handoffs. Latency in
those cases
of initial attach will not be an issue.

Suggest chnaging proposed text 

As a result, we believe that use of EAP as described in 
[RFC4284] is
not a sound long-term approach for solution of the realm
discovery
problem.  Instead, we believe it is more appropriate for
this
functionality to be handled within the link layer,  so that
the
information can be available early in the handoff process.

to 

As a result, we believe that use of EAP as described in 
[RFC4284] is
not a sound long-term approach for solution of  the realm
discovery
problem for mobile users where the information is needed for
handoff
purposes.  Instead, we believe it is more appropriate for
this
functionality to be handled within the link layer,  so that
the
information can be available early in the handoff process.

BR,

Farooq Bari
farooq.bariatt.com
+1 425 580 5526
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bernard Aboba [mailto:bernard_abobahotmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 9:38 PM
> To: eapfrascone.com
> Subject: Re: [eap] Proposed Resolution to Issue 377
(NetSel NITs)
(Section 4)
> 
> I am enclosing a proposed cleanup of Section 4 to
address grammar and
> readability issues.
> 
> Recommended rewrite:
> 
> 4.  Conclusions
> 
>    This document describes the network selection and
discovery
problem.
>    In the opinion of the authors, the major findings
are as follows:
> 
>    o  There is a need for additional work on access
network discovery,
> identifier
>       selection, AAA routing, and payload routing.
> 
>    o  Credential selection and AAA routing are aspects
of the same
problem,
>       namely identity selection.
> 
>    o When considering selection among a large number of
potential
>      access networks and points of attachment, the
issues described in
>      the document become much harder to solve, in an
automated way,
>      particularly if there are constraints on handoff
latency.
> 
>    o  The proliferation of network discovery
technologies within
>       IEEE 802, IETF, and 3GPP has the potential to
become a
>       significant problem going forward.  Without a
unified approach,
>       multiple non-interoperable solutions may be
deployed, resulting
in
>       fragmentation.
> 
>    o  New link layer designs should include the
efficient distribution
>        of network and realm information as a design
requirement.
> 
>    o  It may not be possible to solve all aspects of
the problem for
>       legacy NAS devices on existing link layers. 
Therefore a phased
>       approach may be more realistic.  For example, a
partial solution
>       could be made available for existing link layers,
with a more
>       complete solution requiring support for
extensions.
> 
>    With respec to specific mechanisms for access
>    network discovery and selection:
> 
>    o  Studies such as [MACScale] and [Velayos],
demonstrate that the
IEEE
>       802.11 Beacon/Probe Response mechanism has
substantial scaling
>       issues, and as a result a single physical access
point is in
>       practice limited to less than a dozen virtual APs
on each
channel
>       with IEEE 802.11b.
> 
>       The situation is improved substantially with
successors such as
>       IEEE 802.11a which enable additional channels,
thus potentially
>       increasing the number of potential virtual APs.
> 
>       However, even with these enhancements it is not
feasible to
advertise
>       more than 50 different networks, and probably
less in most
> circumstances.
> 
>       As a result, there appears to be a need to
enhance the
scalability of
>      IEEE 802.11 network advertisements.
> 
>    o  Work is underway in IEEE 802.1, IEEE 802.21 and
the IEEE
>       802.11u to provide enhanced discovery
functionality.  Similarly,
>       IEEE 802.1af has discussed addition of network
functionality to
>       IEEE 802.1X.  However, neither IEEE 802.1ab nor
IEEE 802.1af is
>       likely to support fragmentation of advertisement
frames, so that
>       the amount of data that can be transported will
be limited.
> 
>    o While IEEE 802.11k provides support for the
Neighbor Report,
>       this only provides for gathering of information
on neighboring
>      802.11 APs, not points of attachment supporting
other link
layers.
>      Solution to this problem would appear to require
coordination
>      across IEEE 802 as well as between standards
bodies.
> 
>    o  Given that EAP does not support fragmentation of
EAP-Request/
>       Identity packets, the volume of "realm
hints" that can be fit
with
>       these packets is limited.  In addition, within
IEEE 802.11,
>       EAP packets can only be exchanged within State 3
(associated
>       and authenticated).  As a result, use of EAP for
realm discovery
>       may result in significant delays.   In addition,
the ability of
EAP to
>       carry Quality of Service information
> [I-D.groeting-eap-netselection-results]
>       appears limited.  As a result, we believe that
use of EAP as
described
> in
>      [RFC4284] is not a sound long-term approach for
solution of
>      the realm discovery problem.  Instead, we believe
it is more
> appropriate
>      for this functionality to be handled within the
link layer,  so
that
> the
>      information can be available early in the handoff
process.
> 
>    o  Where link layer approaches are not available,
higher layer
approaches
>       can be considered.  A limitation of higher layer
solutions is
that
> they
>       can only optimize the movement of already
connected hosts, but
>       cannot address scenarios where network discovery
is required for
>       successful attachment.
> 
>       Higher layer alternatives worth considering
include the SEAMOBY
CARD
>       protocol [RFC4066], which enables advertisement
of network
device
>       capabilities over IP and Device Discovery
Protocol (DDP)
>      [I-D.marques-ddp], which provides functionality
equivalent to
>      IEEE 802.1ab using ASN.1 encoded advertisements
sent to a
>      link-local scope multicast address.
> 
> 
>
____________________________________________________________
_____
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options,
please visit:
> http:/
/lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap
> 
> Arhives: http://lists.
frascone.com/pipermail/eap
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