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Thread: KDF Negotiation for AMSK derivation




KDF Negotiation for AMSK derivation
user name
2006-03-21 16:39:27
My terminology may be mixed up, but are we talking about the
base 
algorithm for a PRF and not the negotiation of the full key 
derivation function?

To give an example,

IKEv2's KDF (although 4306 doesn't call it a KDF) is
defined as:

prf+ (K,S) = T1 | T2 | T3 | T4 | ...

    where:
    T1 = prf (K, S | 0x01)
    T2 = prf (K, T1 | S | 0x02)
    T3 = prf (K, T2 | S | 0x03)
    T4 = prf (K, T3 | S | 0x04)

4307 lists the PRF base algorithms:

PRF_HMAC_MD5        1          [RFC2104]    MAY
PRF_HMAC_SHA1       2          [RFC2104]    MUST
PRF_AES128_CBC      4          [AESPRF]     SHOULD+

We could be talking about negotiating the "KDF"
which to me means 
either IKEv2's prf+ or TLS prf and so on.  If we are
talking about 
the underlying algorithm negotiation (which is my
preference) then we 
have a choice of a hash or a cipher based PRF.  Bernard's
concern 
seems to be about a particular hash algorithm.

A clarification will be useful for me to follow this
discussion.

Oh, another thing here is (this came up in a discussion
between Vidya 
N, Joe S and David M) whether we can just rely on the EAP
methods to 
handle this.  I do note the comment about existing methods
don't 
support negotiation, but from my recollection they are also
all over 
the place in EMSK generation also.

Finally, Bernard, I was wondering if you can provide more
details on 
why lower layers can negotiate the algorithms, while it is
difficult 
for even new methods?  Thanks.

best regards,
Lakshminath

At 05:37 AM 3/20/2006, Bernard Aboba wrote:
>Vidya said:
>
>"It is a yet-to-be-defined thing and the
computation is only done by the EAP
>server and peer - could we just not pick a KDF and
mandate it?"
>
>One problem is that the KDF currently suggested for use
in computing AMSKs
>is based on SHA-1, which
>NIST has suggested will be deprecated by 2010.  Given
the movement of the US
>and other governments
>toward the deployment of EAP-based access control, it is
important that
>FIPS-certifiable EAP-based
>solutions continue to be available going forward.
>
>Without the possibility of negotiation,  the adoption of
a
>soon-to-be-deprecated KDF implies
>that EAP itself will be deprecated by 2010.  As has been
noted by others,
>existing EAP methods
>do not negotiate KDFs either for their own use or for
use in AMSK
>generation, and adding this
>feature to existing or even new methods would be very
difficult.  For
>example, TLS (on which many
>EAP methods are based) does not yet support KDF
negotiation for its own use,
>let along
>for use in AMSK generation.
>
>These problems largely evaporate if AMSKs are generated
by the lower layer,
>since the lower layer
>can then negotiate the appropriate KDF for their
generation.  No changes
>would be required for existing or
>new EAP methods.  No changes would be required to RFC
4137.
>
>
>
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