|
List Info
Thread: Proposed Resolution of Issue 361: Child Key Expiry
|
|
| Proposed Resolution of Issue 361: Child
Key Expiry |

|
2006-06-07 18:00:43 |
> This is true even where exported EAP keying material
is
> only used for
> entity authentication and is not used for key
derivation
> (such as in
> IKEv2), so that compromise of exported EAP keying
material does not
> imply compromise of the TSKs or child keys.
However, where child
> keys are derived from or are wrapped by EAP keying
material,
> compromise of the MSK/EMSK does imply compromise of
the child keys.
In the above, are you talking about an EMSK compromise after
expiry
affecting any keys that may still be in use? If so, I'm
wondering how
viable that is - basically, the point that I'm not clear on
is this - if
the EMSK is used to derive any keys that are handed out to
other
entities, depending on the purpose of the key, the EAP
server may really
have no control over that lifetime.
But, if this is a concern, I'm okay with providing guidance
for key
expiry in this manner.
Vidya
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bernard Aboba [mailto:bernard_aboba hotmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 5:12 AM
> To: eap frascone.com
> Subject: Re: [eap] Proposed Resolution of Issue 361:
Child Key Expiry
>
> Here is an update to Section 3.3, which better captures
the
> distinction between maximum lifetime and actual
lifetime:
>
> 3.3. Parent-Child Relationships
>
> When an EAP re-authentication takes place, new
keying material is
> derived and exported by the EAP method, which
eventually results in
> replacement of TSKs, regardless of the way they are
derived (see
> Section 2.1). While the maximum lifetime of TSKs or
child keys can
> be less than or equal to that of the MSK/EMSK, it
cannot
> be greater.
> This is true even where exported EAP keying material
is
> only used for
> entity authentication and is not used for key
derivation
> (such as in
> IKEv2), so that compromise of exported EAP keying
material does not
> imply compromise of the TSKs or child keys.
However, where child
> keys are derived from or are wrapped by EAP keying
material,
> compromise of the MSK/EMSK does imply compromise of
the child keys.
>
> Child keys that are used frequently (such as TSKs
which
> are used for
> traffic protection) can expire sooner than the
exported EAP keying
> material they are dependent on, so that it is
advantageous
> to support
> re-key of child keys prior to EAP re-authentication.
Note that
> deletion of the MSK/EMSK does not necessarily imply
> deletion of TSKs
> or child keys.
>
> Failure to mutually prove possession of exported EAP
> keying material
> during the Secure Association Protocol exchange need
not be grounds
> for deletion of the keying material by both parties;
rate-limiting
> Secure Association Protocol exchanges could be used
to prevent a
> brute force attack.
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________
_____
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options,
please visit:
> http:/
/lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap
>
> Arhives: http://lists.
frascone.com/pipermail/eap
>
____________________________________________________________
_____
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please
visit:
http:/
/lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap
Arhives: http://lists.
frascone.com/pipermail/eap
|
|
| Proposed Resolution of Issue 361: Child
Key Expiry |

|
2006-06-07 18:39:34 |
On Wed, Jun 07, 2006 at 11:00:43AM -0700, Narayanan, Vidya
wrote:
>
> > This is true even where exported EAP keying
material is
> > only used for
> > entity authentication and is not used for key
derivation
> > (such as in
> > IKEv2), so that compromise of exported EAP
keying material does not
> > imply compromise of the TSKs or child keys.
However, where child
> > keys are derived from or are wrapped by EAP
keying material,
> > compromise of the MSK/EMSK does imply
compromise of the child keys.
>
>
> In the above, are you talking about an EMSK compromise
after expiry
> affecting any keys that may still be in use? If so,
I'm wondering how
> viable that is - basically, the point that I'm not
clear on is this - if
> the EMSK is used to derive any keys that are handed out
to other
> entities, depending on the purpose of the key, the EAP
server may really
> have no control over that lifetime.
If the EAP server has no control over the lifetime when EMSK
is used
for a specific purpose, then it would be the time to think
about
possibility to use a mechanism other than EAP for that
purpose.
Yoshihiro Ohba
>
> But, if this is a concern, I'm okay with providing
guidance for key
> expiry in this manner.
>
> Vidya
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bernard Aboba [mailto:bernard_aboba hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 5:12 AM
> > To: eap frascone.com
> > Subject: Re: [eap] Proposed Resolution of Issue
361: Child Key Expiry
> >
> > Here is an update to Section 3.3, which better
captures the
> > distinction between maximum lifetime and actual
lifetime:
> >
> > 3.3. Parent-Child Relationships
> >
> > When an EAP re-authentication takes place, new
keying material is
> > derived and exported by the EAP method, which
eventually results in
> > replacement of TSKs, regardless of the way they
are derived (see
> > Section 2.1). While the maximum lifetime of
TSKs or child keys can
> > be less than or equal to that of the MSK/EMSK,
it cannot
> > be greater.
> > This is true even where exported EAP keying
material is
> > only used for
> > entity authentication and is not used for key
derivation
> > (such as in
> > IKEv2), so that compromise of exported EAP
keying material does not
> > imply compromise of the TSKs or child keys.
However, where child
> > keys are derived from or are wrapped by EAP
keying material,
> > compromise of the MSK/EMSK does imply
compromise of the child keys.
> >
> > Child keys that are used frequently (such as
TSKs which
> > are used for
> > traffic protection) can expire sooner than the
exported EAP keying
> > material they are dependent on, so that it is
advantageous
> > to support
> > re-key of child keys prior to EAP
re-authentication. Note that
> > deletion of the MSK/EMSK does not necessarily
imply
> > deletion of TSKs
> > or child keys.
> >
> > Failure to mutually prove possession of
exported EAP
> > keying material
> > during the Secure Association Protocol exchange
need not be grounds
> > for deletion of the keying material by both
parties; rate-limiting
> > Secure Association Protocol exchanges could be
used to prevent a
> > brute force attack.
> >
> >
> >
____________________________________________________________
_____
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription
options, please visit:
> > http:/
/lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap
> >
> > Arhives: http://lists.
frascone.com/pipermail/eap
> >
>
____________________________________________________________
_____
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options,
please visit:
> http:/
/lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap
>
> Arhives: http://lists.
frascone.com/pipermail/eap
>
____________________________________________________________
_____
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please
visit:
http:/
/lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap
Arhives: http://lists.
frascone.com/pipermail/eap
|
|
| Proposed Resolution of Issue 361: Child
Key Expiry |

|
2006-06-07 19:50:03 |
>In the above, are you talking about an EMSK compromise
after expiry
>affecting any keys that may still be in use?
If the EMSK expires and the session is still in progress,
presumably the
result is an EAP re-authentication which results in new
child keys.
>If so, I'm wondering how
>viable that is - basically, the point that I'm not
clear on is this - if
>the EMSK is used to derive any keys that are handed out
to other
>entities, depending on the purpose of the key, the EAP
server may really
>have no control over that lifetime.
It can provide a maximum lifetime (Session-Timeout) to the
authenticator,
requesting EAP re-authentication to occur when the maximum
lifetime expires.
The distinction we're making here is between maximum
lifetime (controlled by
Session-Timeout) and deletion. If the EMSK is deleted on
the peer or
server, this doesn't cause child keys to be deleted.
However, expiry of the
maximum lifetime does result in new child keys.
____________________________________________________________
_____
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please
visit:
http:/
/lists.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap
Arhives: http://lists.
frascone.com/pipermail/eap
|
|
[1-3]
|
|