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Thread: Questions about DocBook 5.x




Questions about DocBook 5.x
user name
2006-07-20 23:50:59
Hello DocBook folks,

We are long time DocBook users, but I've been out of the
development for
some time. It's nice to see that you are looking at moving
DocBook V4.5
to OASIS Standard, as it's been a long time since an
update.

After all of the hype of DITA, we are still looking for a
good
publishing oriented DTD/schema. Although we may also use
DITA to store
and manage data, I still think there is a lot of relevance
for DocBook
for output, and for many situations also for input. I really
like a lot
of what is happening in DocBook 5.x. I've been working with
5.0b5, and
am very impressed.

We are building an internal application and want to migrate
to a newer
version of DocBook (currently at V4.1.2 of the XML DTD). We
can be quite
flexible with our data, and want to use DocBook and
associated apps
"out-of-the-box" as much as possible. Due to
some of the
"backwards-incompatible" changes for 5.x, I
think that because we are
doing a total rebuild, I would rather do it in 5.x. So far
in testing,
the db4-upgrade.xsl conversion of legacy documents from
DocBook 4.x to
DocBook V5.0 seems to be working well.

Constraints:
--------------
We are doing this migration stepwise, because we need to
support both
XML DTD and W3C XML Schema. In future we may look to RELAX
NG support,
but other integrated apps do not support it enough at this
time. We also
need W3C MathML 2.0 and are using DocBook XSLT (1.70.0). We
also hope to
use the DITA OpenToolkit to DocBook.

Questions:
--------------
1) In a general view, would you recommend jumping into 5.x
now? I
realise that the DTD/Schema versions are "not
normative". How "not
normative" are they -- scale of 1 (being MSXML) to 5
(being a strong
parser)?

2) Is it reasonable to think we can integrate W3C MathML 2.0
DTD with
DocBook 5.x?  I have some problems with
"XLINK.prefix" and would rather
know if it is "doable" before I dive in. BTW, it
would not be a bad idea
to include in the documentation "Extending the DocBook
DTD with the
MathML DTD".

Many thanks for reading this long message. I hope my time
away from
DocBook has not rendered me totally clueless (apologies in
advance

Kind regards,
Ellyn Larson
Portalyx, The Netherlands




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Questions about DocBook 5.x
user name
2006-07-21 09:45:16
Ellyn Larson wrote:

> Questions:
> --------------
> 1) In a general view, would you recommend jumping into
5.x now? I
> realise that the DTD/Schema versions are "not
normative". How "not
> normative" are they -- scale of 1 (being MSXML)
to 5 (being a strong
> parser)?

"Non normative" means that they are still under
the development. But if 
you look into changes made in V5 schema during the last
year, you will 
find that these are minor changes usually in a not very
commonly used 
markup.

I don't think that any element/attribute will be removed or
renamed in 
V5 schema before it will get "official" status.

For the last 9 months I use DocBook V5 when building new
documentation 
solution for my customers, because risk of changes in schema
is very low 
and benefits of faster (and thus cheaper) development of
schema 
customizations are clearly bigger.

> 2) Is it reasonable to think we can integrate W3C
MathML 2.0 DTD with
> DocBook 5.x?  I have some problems with
"XLINK.prefix" and would rather
> know if it is "doable" before I dive in.
BTW, it would not be a bad idea
> to include in the documentation "Extending the
DocBook DTD with the
> MathML DTD".

It should be doable, but I don't think it is worth doing.
It should be 
easier to create such customization in RELAX NG (it is here
already) and 
then use build tools in DocBook repository to convert this
RELAX NG 
schema into DTD. (Please note that you can't use Trang for
this, because 
Trang produces incorrect DTD from DocBook V5 RELAX NG
schema.)

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
------
   Jirka Kosek     e-mail: jirkakosek.cz     http://www.kosek.cz
------------------------------------------------------------
------
   Profesionální školení a poradenství v oblasti technologií
XML.
      Podívejte se na náš nově spuštěný web http://DocBook.cz
        Podrobný přehled školení http://xmlguru.cz/skoleni/

------------------------------------------------------------
------
                    Nejbližší termíny školení:
     ** XSLT 23.-26.10.2006 ** XML schémata 13.-15.11.2006
**
      ** DocBook 11.-13.12.2006 ** XSL-FO 11.-12.12.2006 **
------------------------------------------------------------
------
   http://xmlguru.cz    Blog
mostly about XML for English readers
------------------------------------------------------------
------

Questions about DocBook 5.x
user name
2006-07-24 11:50:00
Hello Jirka,

Many thanks for your input. I've been working on what you
suggested and 
doing the customization in RELAX NG.

Can you tell me what tool(s)  in the DocBook repository I
should be 
using to convert the RELAX NG schema into a DTD and W3C XML
Schema?

Many thanks,
Ellyn Larson

Jirka Kosek wrote:

> Ellyn Larson wrote:
>
>> Questions:
>> --------------
>> 1) In a general view, would you recommend jumping
into 5.x now? I
>> realise that the DTD/Schema versions are "not
normative". How "not
>> normative" are they -- scale of 1 (being
MSXML) to 5 (being a strong
>> parser)?
>
>
> "Non normative" means that they are still
under the development. But 
> if you look into changes made in V5 schema during the
last year, you 
> will find that these are minor changes usually in a not
very commonly 
> used markup.
>
> I don't think that any element/attribute will be
removed or renamed in 
> V5 schema before it will get "official"
status.
>
> For the last 9 months I use DocBook V5 when building
new documentation 
> solution for my customers, because risk of changes in
schema is very 
> low and benefits of faster (and thus cheaper)
development of schema 
> customizations are clearly bigger.
>
>> 2) Is it reasonable to think we can integrate W3C
MathML 2.0 DTD with
>> DocBook 5.x?  I have some problems with
"XLINK.prefix" and would rather
>> know if it is "doable" before I dive
in. BTW, it would not be a bad idea
>> to include in the documentation "Extending
the DocBook DTD with the
>> MathML DTD".
>
>
> It should be doable, but I don't think it is worth
doing. It should be 
> easier to create such customization in RELAX NG (it is
here already) 
> and then use build tools in DocBook repository to
convert this RELAX 
> NG schema into DTD. (Please note that you can't use
Trang for this, 
> because Trang produces incorrect DTD from DocBook V5
RELAX NG schema.)
>



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Questions about DocBook 5.x
user name
2006-07-25 10:02:22
Ellyn Larson wrote:

> Many thanks for your input. I've been working on what
you suggested and 
> doing the customization in RELAX NG.
> 
> Can you tell me what tool(s)  in the DocBook repository
I should be 
> using to convert the RELAX NG schema into a DTD and W3C
XML Schema?

Look inside docbook/relaxng/docbook directory inside SVN
repository. 
There is makefile for building various variants of DocBook
schema. You 
can look inside makefile to study how this works. (I'm not
saying that 
it is easy to make this work with your schema, but if you
will paralel 
e.g. way in which dbforms are built, you should be
successful.)

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
------
   Jirka Kosek     e-mail: jirkakosek.cz     http://www.kosek.cz
------------------------------------------------------------
------
   Profesionální školení a poradenství v oblasti technologií
XML.
      Podívejte se na náš nově spuštěný web http://DocBook.cz
        Podrobný přehled školení http://xmlguru.cz/skoleni/

------------------------------------------------------------
------
                    Nejbližší termíny školení:
     ** XSLT 23.-26.10.2006 ** XML schémata 13.-15.11.2006
**
      ** DocBook 11.-13.12.2006 ** XSL-FO 11.-12.12.2006 **
------------------------------------------------------------
------
   http://xmlguru.cz    Blog
mostly about XML for English readers
------------------------------------------------------------
------

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