namespace markup

I'm writing about XML.

I can identify elements, attributes but AFAIK I can't
identify 
namespaces semantically?

Any suggestions please?

regards

-- 
Dave Pawson
XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
http://www.dpawson.co.uk


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IMO, namespaces are a scoping construct. Did you mean to ask
how to
identify namespaces (not namespace prefixes) syntactically?

On 3/5/07, Dave Pawson <davepdpawson.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm writing about XML.
>
> I can identify elements, attributes but AFAIK I can't
identify
> namespaces semantically?
>
> Any suggestions please?
>
> regards
>
> --
> Dave Pawson
> XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
> http://www.dpawson.co.uk

>
>
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>
>


-- 
http://chris.chiasson.nam
e/

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Chris Chiasson wrote:
> IMO, namespaces are a scoping construct. Did you mean
to ask how to
> identify namespaces (not namespace prefixes)
syntactically?

No. See Jirka's answer.

I want to talk about ns X


regards DaveP
>> I can identify elements, attributes but AFAIK I
can't identify
>> namespaces semantically?
>>
>> Any suggestions please?
>>
>> regards
>>
>> -- 
>> Dave Pawson
>> XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
>> http://www.dpawson.co.uk

>>
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-unsubscribelists.oasis-open.org
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>>
>>
> 
> 



regards

-- 
Dave Pawson
XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
http://www.dpawson.co.uk


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In DocBook 4.5, the <sgmltag> element has a class
attribute with enumerated 
values.  One of those enumerated values is 'namespace'.  For
some reason, 
the equivalent <tag> element in 5.0 is missing that
value and a few others. 
I think it is an oversight, and I filed an RFE to see if it
should get 
fixed.  So I think this is how a namespace name should be
marked up:

<tag class="namespace">http://docb
ook.org/ns/docbook</tag>

But it won't validate yet.

Bob Stayton
Sagehill Enterprises
DocBook Consulting
bobssagehill.net


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Chiasson" <chrischiasson.name>
To: "Dave Pawson" <davepdpawson.co.uk>
Cc: "Docbook List" <docbooklists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [docbook] namespace markup


> IMO, namespaces are a scoping construct. Did you mean
to ask how to
> identify namespaces (not namespace prefixes)
syntactically?
>
> On 3/5/07, Dave Pawson <davepdpawson.co.uk> wrote:
>> I'm writing about XML.
>>
>> I can identify elements, attributes but AFAIK I
can't identify
>> namespaces semantically?
>>
>> Any suggestions please?
>>
>> regards
>>
>> --
>> Dave Pawson
>> XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
>> http://www.dpawson.co.uk

>>
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-unsubscribelists.oasis-open.org
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>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> http://chris.chiasson.nam
e/
>
>
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>
>
> 



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Where is Jirka's answer? :-(

On 3/7/07, Dave Pawson <davepdpawson.co.uk> wrote:
> Chris Chiasson wrote:
> > IMO, namespaces are a scoping construct. Did you
mean to ask how to
> > identify namespaces (not namespace prefixes)
syntactically?
>
> No. See Jirka's answer.
>
> I want to talk about ns X
>
>
> regards DaveP
> >> I can identify elements, attributes but AFAIK
I can't identify
> >> namespaces semantically?
> >>
> >> Any suggestions please?
> >>
> >> regards
> >>
> >> --
> >> Dave Pawson
> >> XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
> >> http://www.dpawson.co.uk

> >>
> >>
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> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
docbook-unsubscribelists.oasis-open.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail:
docbook-helplists.oasis-open.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> regards
>
> --
> Dave Pawson
> XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
> http://www.dpawson.co.uk

>


-- 
http://chris.chiasson.nam
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Bob Stayton wrote:
> In DocBook 4.5, the <sgmltag> element has a class
attribute with
> enumerated values.  One of those enumerated values is
'namespace'.  For
> some reason, the equivalent <tag> element in 5.0
is missing that value
> and a few others. I think it is an oversight, and I
filed an RFE to see
> if it should get fixed.  So I think this is how a
namespace name should
> be marked up:
> 
> <tag class="namespace">http://docb
ook.org/ns/docbook</tag>

I still think that

<uri type="xmlnamespace">http://docb
ook.org/ns/docbook</uri>

is much more proper way of marking namespace. Namespace
itself is not
"tag", nor other part of markup.

				Jirka

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
------
  Jirka Kosek      e-mail: jirkakosek.cz      http://xmlguru.cz
------------------------------------------------------------
------
       Professional XML consulting and training services
  DocBook customization, custom XSLT/XSL-FO document
processing
------------------------------------------------------------
------
 OASIS DocBook TC member, W3C Invited Expert, ISO/JTC1/SC34
member
------------------------------------------------------------
------
 Want to speak at XML Prague 2007 => http://xmlprague.cz/cfp.
html

I think Jirka is right. I currently use <uri> for XML
namespaces for the
very reasons cited. The namespace is not a tag or a proper
part of the
markup.
I do not think that a provision should be made in
<tag> for namespaces.
Perhaps it can be added to <uri>'s type attribute...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jirka Kosek [mailto:jirkakosek.cz] 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 3:52 PM
> To: Bob Stayton
> Cc: Chris Chiasson; Dave Pawson; Docbook List
> Subject: Re: [docbook] namespace markup
> 
> Bob Stayton wrote:
> > In DocBook 4.5, the <sgmltag> element has a
class attribute with 
> > enumerated values.  One of those enumerated values
is 'namespace'.  
> > For some reason, the equivalent <tag>
element in 5.0 is 
> missing that 
> > value and a few others. I think it is an
oversight, and I 
> filed an RFE 
> > to see if it should get fixed.  So I think this is
how a namespace 
> > name should be marked up:
> > 
> > <tag class="namespace">http://docb
ook.org/ns/docbook</tag>
> 
> I still think that
> 
> <uri type="xmlnamespace">http://docb
ook.org/ns/docbook</uri>
> 
> is much more proper way of marking namespace. Namespace

> itself is not "tag", nor other part of
markup.
> 
> 				Jirka
> 
> --
>
------------------------------------------------------------
------
>   Jirka Kosek      e-mail: jirkakosek.cz      http://xmlguru.cz
>
------------------------------------------------------------
------
>        Professional XML consulting and training
services
>   DocBook customization, custom XSLT/XSL-FO document
processing
>
------------------------------------------------------------
------
>  OASIS DocBook TC member, W3C Invited Expert,
ISO/JTC1/SC34 member
>
------------------------------------------------------------
------
>  Want to speak at XML Prague 2007 => http://xmlprague.cz/cfp.
html
> 
> 

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How about prefix and localname?  Wouldn't those be
considered part of the 
markup, and appropriate class names for tag?

How about a namespace attribute:

  xmlns=http://docbook.org/ns/d
ocbook

Wouldn't that be marked with tag with
class="attribute"?  It is part of the 
markup in a document.

Bob Stayton
Sagehill Enterprises
DocBook Consulting
bobssagehill.net


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Johnson, Eric" <Eric.Johnsoniona.com>
To: "Docbook List" <docbooklists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 1:01 PM
Subject: RE: [docbook] namespace markup


I think Jirka is right. I currently use <uri> for XML
namespaces for the
very reasons cited. The namespace is not a tag or a proper
part of the
markup.
I do not think that a provision should be made in
<tag> for namespaces.
Perhaps it can be added to <uri>'s type attribute...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jirka Kosek [mailto:jirkakosek.cz]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 3:52 PM
> To: Bob Stayton
> Cc: Chris Chiasson; Dave Pawson; Docbook List
> Subject: Re: [docbook] namespace markup
>
> Bob Stayton wrote:
> > In DocBook 4.5, the <sgmltag> element has a
class attribute with
> > enumerated values.  One of those enumerated values
is 'namespace'.
> > For some reason, the equivalent <tag>
element in 5.0 is
> missing that
> > value and a few others. I think it is an
oversight, and I
> filed an RFE
> > to see if it should get fixed.  So I think this is
how a namespace
> > name should be marked up:
> >
> > <tag class="namespace">http://docb
ook.org/ns/docbook</tag>
>
> I still think that
>
> <uri type="xmlnamespace">http://docb
ook.org/ns/docbook</uri>
>
> is much more proper way of marking namespace.
Namespace
> itself is not "tag", nor other part of
markup.
>
> Jirka
>
> --
>
------------------------------------------------------------
------
>   Jirka Kosek      e-mail: jirkakosek.cz      http://xmlguru.cz
>
------------------------------------------------------------
------
>        Professional XML consulting and training
services
>   DocBook customization, custom XSLT/XSL-FO document
processing
>
------------------------------------------------------------
------
>  OASIS DocBook TC member, W3C Invited Expert,
ISO/JTC1/SC34 member
>
------------------------------------------------------------
------
>  Want to speak at XML Prague 2007 => http://xmlprague.cz/cfp.
html
>
>

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Chris Chiasson wrote:

> Where is Jirka's answer? :-(

Seems that I forgot to hit reply-all, instead I replied to
Dave only.
But I repeated my answer in the very recent email.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
------
  Jirka Kosek      e-mail: jirkakosek.cz      http://xmlguru.cz
------------------------------------------------------------
------
       Professional XML consulting and training services
  DocBook customization, custom XSLT/XSL-FO document
processing
------------------------------------------------------------
------
 OASIS DocBook TC member, W3C Invited Expert, ISO/JTC1/SC34
member
------------------------------------------------------------
------
 Want to speak at XML Prague 2007 => http://xmlprague.cz/cfp.
html

In the example presented the namespace is part of the mark
up because it
is an attribute and attribute value pair.
In the following case:
Set the value of the xmlns attribute to http://docbook.org/ns/d
ocbook
I would use:
Set the value of the <sgmltag
class="attribute">xmlns</sgmltag>
attribute to <sgmltag
class="attrvalue">http://
docbook.org/ns/docbook</sgmltag>
I would also consider <uri
type="namespace>http://doc
book.org/ns/docbook/</uri> an equal
replacement for the last element.

If I were going to talk about the namespace itself, like the
namespace
for Docbook elements is http://docbook.org/ns/d
ocbook, then I would
definitely use:
<uri type="namespace">http://docb
ook.org/ns/docbook</uri>

I would say that a prefix is a mark-up concern. Would you
use it like:
The prefix used to specify WSDL elements is <tag
class="prefix">wsdl</tag>
The <tag class="prefix">xsl</tag>
prefix is commonly used to denote that
an element is defined under the XML Schema namespace
?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Stayton [mailto:bobssagehill.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 4:13 PM
> To: Johnson, Eric; Docbook List
> Subject: Re: [docbook] namespace markup
> 
> How about prefix and localname?  Wouldn't those be
considered 
> part of the markup, and appropriate class names for
tag?
> 
> How about a namespace attribute:
> 
>   xmlns=http://docbook.org/ns/d
ocbook
> 
> Wouldn't that be marked with tag with
class="attribute"?  It 
> is part of the markup in a document.
> 
> Bob Stayton
> Sagehill Enterprises
> DocBook Consulting
> bobssagehill.net
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Johnson, Eric" <Eric.Johnsoniona.com>
> To: "Docbook List" <docbooklists.oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 1:01 PM
> Subject: RE: [docbook] namespace markup
> 
> 
> I think Jirka is right. I currently use <uri> for
XML 
> namespaces for the
> very reasons cited. The namespace is not a tag or a
proper part of the
> markup.
> I do not think that a provision should be made in
<tag> for 
> namespaces.
> Perhaps it can be added to <uri>'s type
attribute...
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jirka Kosek [mailto:jirkakosek.cz]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 3:52 PM
> > To: Bob Stayton
> > Cc: Chris Chiasson; Dave Pawson; Docbook List
> > Subject: Re: [docbook] namespace markup
> >
> > Bob Stayton wrote:
> > > In DocBook 4.5, the <sgmltag> element
has a class attribute with
> > > enumerated values.  One of those enumerated
values is 'namespace'.
> > > For some reason, the equivalent <tag>
element in 5.0 is
> > missing that
> > > value and a few others. I think it is an
oversight, and I
> > filed an RFE
> > > to see if it should get fixed.  So I think
this is how a namespace
> > > name should be marked up:
> > >
> > > <tag class="namespace">http://docb
ook.org/ns/docbook</tag>
> >
> > I still think that
> >
> > <uri type="xmlnamespace">http://docb
ook.org/ns/docbook</uri>
> >
> > is much more proper way of marking namespace.
Namespace
> > itself is not "tag", nor other part of
markup.
> >
> > Jirka
> >
> > --
> >
------------------------------------------------------------
------
> >   Jirka Kosek      e-mail: jirkakosek.cz 
    http://xmlguru.cz
> >
------------------------------------------------------------
------
> >        Professional XML consulting and training
services
> >   DocBook customization, custom XSLT/XSL-FO
document processing
> >
------------------------------------------------------------
------
> >  OASIS DocBook TC member, W3C Invited Expert,
ISO/JTC1/SC34 member
> >
------------------------------------------------------------
------
> >  Want to speak at XML Prague 2007 => http://xmlprague.cz/cfp.
html
> >
> >
> 
>
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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