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Thread: Rename firstname and surname?
Rename firstname and surname?
country flaguser name
United States		 2007-08-09 08:15:56 
HI FOLKS,

I'VE NOW RECEIVED (AT LEAST) TWO SEPARATE SUGGESTIONS THAT
WE RENAME
FIRSTNAME TO GIVENNAME AND SURNAME TO FAMILYNAME. MOST
RECENTLY, HERE:

HTTP://NORMAN.WALSH.NAME/2007/05/23/DOCBOOK50CR4#COMMENT0001


IF THERE'S COMMUNITY SUPPORT FOR THIS, V5.0 IS THE TIME TO
DO IT.

THOUGHTS?

                                        BE SEEING YOU,
                                          NORM

-- 
NORMAN WALSH <NDWNWALSH.COM>      | WE CANNOT PUT OFF
LIVING UNTIL WE
HTTP://WWW.OASIS-OPEN.ORG/DOCBOOK/ | ARE READY. THE MOST
SALIENT
CHAIR, DOCBOOK TECHNICAL COMMITTEE | CHARACTERISTIC OF LIFE
IS ITS
                                   | COERCIVENESS: IT IS
ALWAYS URGENT,
                                   | 'HERE AND NOW' WITHOUT
ANY
                                   | POSSIBLE POSTPONEMENT.
LIFE IS
                                   | FIRED AT US POINT
BLANK.--JOSé
                                   | ORTEGA Y GASSET
Re: Rename firstname and surname?
user name
 2007-08-09 09:16:24 
At Thu, 09 Aug 2007 09:15:56 -0400, Norman Walsh wrote:

> I've now received (at least) two separate suggestions
that we rename
> firstname to givenname and surname to familyname. Most
recently, here:
> 
> http://norman.walsh.name/2007/05/23/docbook50CR4#com
ment0001
> 
> If there's community support for this, V5.0 is the time
to do it.
> 
> Thoughts?

I like that suggestion, especially changing firstname to
givenname.

Greg Peterson <petersonnotredame.ac.jp>

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Re: Rename firstname and surname?
user name
 2007-08-09 09:46:08 
Hi,

makes sense in French, wondering about other cultures...

Camille.

Norman Walsh wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I've now received (at least) two separate suggestions
that we rename
> firstname to givenname and surname to familyname. Most
recently, here:
> 
> http://norman.walsh.name/2007/05/23/docbook50CR4#com
ment0001
> 
> If there's community support for this, V5.0 is the time
to do it.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
>                                         Be seeing you,
>                                           norm
> 


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Re: Rename firstname and surname?
country flaguser name
United States		 2007-08-09 09:52:42 
/ CAMILLE BéGNIS <CAMILLENEODOC.BIZ> WAS HEARD TO
SAY:
| HI,
|
| MAKES SENSE IN FRENCH, WONDERING ABOUT OTHER CULTURES...

I THINK ONE OF THE OBJECTIONS TO 'FIRSTNAME' AND 'SURNAME'
IS THAT
THEY'RE DEEPLY ANGLO-CENTRIC.

I WRITE MY NAME "NORMAN WALSH" BECAUSE THAT'S THE
ACCEPTED ORDER IN
THE CULTURE IN WHICH I LIVE AND WAS RAISED. HAD I BEEN
RAISED IN A
DIFFERENT CULTURAL TRADITION, I'D WRITE MY NAME "WALSH
NORMAN". THAT
WOULDN'T CHANGE SEMANTICS OF "NORMAN" OR
"WALSH" IN MY NAME.

THE MORE I THINK ABOUT IT, THE MORE I'M INCLINED TO MAKE
THIS CHANGE.

                                        BE SEEING YOU,
                                          NORM

-- 
NORMAN WALSH <NDWNWALSH.COM>      | HE WOULD LIKE TO
START FROM
HTTP://WWW.OASIS-OPEN.ORG/DOCBOOK/ | SCRATCH. WHERE IS
SCRATCH?--ELIAS
CHAIR, DOCBOOK TECHNICAL COMMITTEE | CANETTI
RE: Rename firstname and surname?
user name
 2007-08-09 09:56:06 
I'm okay with givenname, but would prefer surname.
Familyname seems a little verbose and unnecessary to me.

-----Original Message-----
From: Camille Bégnis [mailto:camilleneodoc.biz] 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 10:46 AM
To: docbooklist
Subject: Re: [docbook] Rename firstname and surname?

Hi,

makes sense in French, wondering about other cultures...

Camille.

Norman Walsh wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I've now received (at least) two separate suggestions
that we rename
> firstname to givenname and surname to familyname. Most
recently, here:
> 
> http://norman.walsh.name/2007/05/23/docbook50CR4#com
ment0001
> 
> If there's community support for this, V5.0 is the time
to do it.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
>                                         Be seeing you,
>                                           norm
> 


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RE: Rename firstname and surname?
user name
 2007-08-09 09:57:51 
Also, some people change their last name without regard to
family ties. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rolander, Dan [mailtoan.Rolan
dermarriott.com] 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 10:56 AM
To: docbooklist
Subject: RE: [docbook] Rename firstname and surname?

I'm okay with givenname, but would prefer surname.
Familyname seems a little verbose and unnecessary to me.

-----Original Message-----
From: Camille Bégnis [mailto:camilleneodoc.biz] 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 10:46 AM
To: docbooklist
Subject: Re: [docbook] Rename firstname and surname?

Hi,

makes sense in French, wondering about other cultures...

Camille.

Norman Walsh wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I've now received (at least) two separate suggestions
that we rename
> firstname to givenname and surname to familyname. Most
recently, here:
> 
> http://norman.walsh.name/2007/05/23/docbook50CR4#com
ment0001
> 
> If there's community support for this, V5.0 is the time
to do it.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
>                                         Be seeing you,
>                                           norm
> 


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Re: Rename firstname and surname?
user name
 2007-08-09 10:02:23 
On Thu, 9 Aug 2007, Norman Walsh wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I've now received (at least) two separate suggestions
that we rename
> firstname to givenname and surname to familyname. Most
recently, here:
>
> http://norman.walsh.name/2007/05/23/docbook50CR4#com
ment0001
>
> If there's community support for this, V5.0 is the time
to do it.

My only touchstone on this topic is the widely used
inetOrgPerson LDAP 
schema, which uses surname (actually, "sn") and
givenName. From where 
I sit, the change to givenname would introduce some
consistency, while 
the change to familyname would do the opposite. Just my
$0.02.

-- 
Paul Heinlein <> heinleinmadboa.com <> http://www.madboa.com/

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Re: Rename firstname and surname?
country flaguser name
Germany		 2007-08-09 10:19:34 
Quoting Norman Walsh <ndwnwalsh.com>:


> I've now received (at least) two separate suggestions
that we rename
> firstname to givenname and surname to familyname. Most
recently, here:
>

Not that this is authoritative, but librarians seem to
prefer  
givenname and familyname as well. See e.g. the MODS schema:

http://www.loc.gov/standards/mods/v3/mods-
3-3-outline-review.html#name

regards,
Markus

-- 
Markus Hoenicka
markus.hoenickacats.de
(Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with
"mhoenicka")
http://www.mhoenicka.de


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RE: Rename firstname and surname?
user name
 2007-08-09 12:39:07 
Makes sense to me. After all, personal names are not unique
to DocBook, and DocBook is used globally.

Personal names are actually immensely complex (as are postal
addresses). Even without delving into epistemological
investigations into rigid designators etc.

A glimpse of the complexity:

  http://en.
wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_name

Besides RDF-savy bloggers and librarians, the news industry
also feels the need to address personal names in a globally
applicable way. E.g. see this discussion:

  http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/newsml-g2/message/238
  

kind regards
Peter Ring

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Norman Walsh [mailto:ndwnwalsh.com]
> Sent: 9. august 2007 15:16
> To: docbooklists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: [docbook] Rename firstname and surname?
> 
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I've now received (at least) two separate suggestions
that we rename
> firstname to givenname and surname to familyname. Most
recently, here:
> 
> http://norman.walsh.name/2007/05/23/docbook50CR4#com
ment0001
> 
> If there's community support for this, V5.0 is the time
to do it.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
>                                         Be seeing you,
>                                           norm
> 
> -- 
> Norman Walsh <ndwnwalsh.com>      | We
cannot put off living until we
> http://www.oasis-o
pen.org/docbook/ | are ready. The most salient
> Chair, DocBook Technical Committee | characteristic of
life is its
>                                    | coerciveness: it
is 
> always urgent,
>                                    | 'here and now'
without any
>                                    | possible
postponement. Life is
>                                    | fired at us point
blank.--José
>                                    | Ortega Y Gasset
>
Re: Rename firstname and surname?
user name
 2007-08-09 13:48:12 
Markus Hoenicka wrote:

> Not that this is authoritative, but librarians seem to
prefer givenname 
> and familyname as well. See e.g. the MODS schema:
> 
> http://www.loc.gov/standards/mods/v3/mods-
3-3-outline-review.html#name


I'd prefer to align with other markup entities, and can't
decide between
familyname and surname.

Google comes up 3:1 in favour of surname, if that means
anything.

+1 to the change,
Either and I'd be happy family/sur





regards

-- 
Dave Pawson
XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
http://www.dpawson.co.uk


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