Re: Intended Audiance of Developer Resource Category?

Hello!

 >I've got a short and simple question. For whom is the
Developer Resource
 >Category for? People who want to develop apps by using
Mono, or Mono-Hackers
 >themselves?

 >If it is a mixup of both I would suggest to separate
this into three
 >categories.
 >1. Developer Resource
 >2. Mono Hacker Resources: For people hacking mono
directly.
 >3. Windows Porting

This is good idea ! The pit to not fall into is to have a
too 
complicated structure at the end (the MSDN library suffers
of that).

Beyond your suggestion, could I express a more personal
point of 
view  ? I apologize if was previously discussed and/or
conflict with 
some project orientations. I am curious to get some feedback
about it 
and by the way, may it will bring some ideas too.

<personal point of view>

I am following (from a far away point of view) the Mono
project for 
more than 2 years and started to seriously use Mono for a
personal 
project a couple a weeks ago. Because writing and dealing
with 
documentation is my everyday job, I was led to the following
reflection :

My personal and professional experiences told me that even
you have 
the most advanced/robust/complete/flexible product, it will
rejected 
by some of your users if it does not have robust
(clear/concise/....) 
and well-organized (logically organized / easily-browsable)
documentation.

To try to figure out my idea : imagine you are just curious
to see 
what Mono is. You launch your favorite browser, you type 
www.mono-project.com in the URL bar et voila : the site has
a very 
nice look-and feel, downloads/blogs links are easy to reach,
general 
project information is easy to find and clear enough.

Now come to site as a developper : you know what Mono is,
you have 
dowloaded and installed it. You have precise goals in mind
about your 
documentation search and no time to loose in guessing where
the stuff 
could be. If you wish to get the right thing right now...
not very easy :-(.

 From my point of view, the developer related documentation
will need 
a different approach sooner or later as Mono popularity,
maturity and 
user base are growing. You cannot afford to keep it
scattered on many 
pages with no clear linking and no easily browsable central
point. 
That will be a nightmare to maintain, a pain to consult and
a huge 
source of frustation.

This new approach /could be/ a Wikipedia-like site but
wholly 
dedicated to Mono. Several reasons :

1 - We are very familiar with Wikipedia so using (say)
Monopedia will 
not require extra learning effort
2 - A wiki usage is natural especially for a developper and
offers a 
high level a flexibility and diversity
3 - Monopedia could follow the same philosophy as Wikipedia
: 
everyone can contribute freely in "real-time".
(3' - Writing and cross-referencing between articles is
really simple)
4 - The wiki documentation grows by itself in the background
and 
allow the Mono documentation team concentrate on other
tasks.

Do you think this kind of perspective could be compatible
with the 
Mono documentation project (short/long term) ? I welcome any

opinion/criticism 

</personal point of view>

Valentin, I would be very glad to help you and any Mono
documentation 
project efforts in manner or another.

Kind regards,

Adrien Dessemond  

_______________________________________________
Mono-docs-list maillist  -  Mono-docs-listlists.ximian.com
http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-docs-list

This is interesting.
I hope to hear more on this discussion.

If I am lucky I will be able to contribute to mono in a few
weeks
when my other Linux writing project is complete.
I would love to write about mono

have a good day,
-yoshiro (mark) aoki

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adrien Dessemond" <adrien.dessemondsofthome.net>
To: <mono-docs-listlists.ximian.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Mono-docs-list] Intended Audiance of Developer

ResourceCategory?


> Hello!
>
> >I've got a short and simple question. For whom is
the Developer Resource
> >Category for? People who want to develop apps by
using Mono, or 
> >Mono-Hackers
> >themselves?
>
> >If it is a mixup of both I would suggest to
separate this into three
> >categories.
> >1. Developer Resource
> >2. Mono Hacker Resources: For people hacking mono
directly.
> >3. Windows Porting
>
> This is good idea ! The pit to not fall into is to have
a too
> complicated structure at the end (the MSDN library
suffers of that).
>
> Beyond your suggestion, could I express a more personal
point of
> view  ? I apologize if was previously discussed and/or
conflict with
> some project orientations. I am curious to get some
feedback about it
> and by the way, may it will bring some ideas too.
>
> <personal point of view>
>
> I am following (from a far away point of view) the Mono
project for
> more than 2 years and started to seriously use Mono for
a personal
> project a couple a weeks ago. Because writing and
dealing with
> documentation is my everyday job, I was led to the
following reflection :
>
> My personal and professional experiences told me that
even you have
> the most advanced/robust/complete/flexible product, it
will rejected
> by some of your users if it does not have robust
(clear/concise/....)
> and well-organized (logically organized /
easily-browsable) documentation.
>
> To try to figure out my idea : imagine you are just
curious to see
> what Mono is. You launch your favorite browser, you
type
> www.mono-project.com in the URL bar et voila : the site
has a very
> nice look-and feel, downloads/blogs links are easy to
reach, general
> project information is easy to find and clear enough.
>
> Now come to site as a developper : you know what Mono
is, you have
> dowloaded and installed it. You have precise goals in
mind about your
> documentation search and no time to loose in guessing
where the stuff
> could be. If you wish to get the right thing right
now... not very easy 
> :-(.
>
> From my point of view, the developer related
documentation will need
> a different approach sooner or later as Mono
popularity, maturity and
> user base are growing. You cannot afford to keep it
scattered on many
> pages with no clear linking and no easily browsable
central point.
> That will be a nightmare to maintain, a pain to consult
and a huge
> source of frustation.
>
> This new approach /could be/ a Wikipedia-like site but
wholly
> dedicated to Mono. Several reasons :
>
> 1 - We are very familiar with Wikipedia so using (say)
Monopedia will
> not require extra learning effort
> 2 - A wiki usage is natural especially for a developper
and offers a
> high level a flexibility and diversity
> 3 - Monopedia could follow the same philosophy as
Wikipedia :
> everyone can contribute freely in
"real-time".
> (3' - Writing and cross-referencing between articles is
really simple)
> 4 - The wiki documentation grows by itself in the
background and
> allow the Mono documentation team concentrate on other
tasks.
>
> Do you think this kind of perspective could be
compatible with the
> Mono documentation project (short/long term) ? I
welcome any
> opinion/criticism 
>
> </personal point of view>
>
> Valentin, I would be very glad to help you and any Mono
documentation
> project efforts in manner or another.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Adrien Dessemond
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mono-docs-list maillist  -  Mono-docs-listlists.ximian.com
> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-docs-list
> 

_______________________________________________
Mono-docs-list maillist  -  Mono-docs-listlists.ximian.com
http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-docs-list

Hello,

On Thursday 17 May 2007 04:06, Adrien Dessemond wrote:
> Hello!
>
> This is good idea ! The pit to not fall into is to have
a too
> complicated structure at the end (the MSDN library
suffers of that).

I believe that Mono won't fall in such a pit because, it is
not as large as 
the MSDN, we simply do not have that much content to
structure into 
uncountable categories. But still that's something we have
to keep in mind.

> Beyond your suggestion, could I express a more personal
point of
> view  ? I apologize if was previously discussed and/or
conflict with
> some project orientations. I am curious to get some
feedback about it
> and by the way, may it will bring some ideas too.
>
> <personal point of view>
>
> I am following (from a far away point of view) the Mono
project for
> more than 2 years and started to seriously use Mono for
a personal
> project a couple a weeks ago. Because writing and
dealing with
> documentation is my everyday job, I was led to the
following reflection :

Glad to hear that a person who has experience in dealing
with documentation is 
interested in the Mono-Documentation Projects. Hopefully
others will follow 
and it will gain a little bit momentum now. (It has been
creeping for a 
looong time now...)

> My personal and professional experiences told me that
even you have
> the most advanced/robust/complete/flexible product, it
will rejected
> by some of your users if it does not have robust
(clear/concise/....)
> and well-organized (logically organized /
easily-browsable) documentation.
>
> To try to figure out my idea : imagine you are just
curious to see
> what Mono is. You launch your favorite browser, you
type
> www.mono-project.com in the URL bar et voila : the site
has a very
> nice look-and feel, downloads/blogs links are easy to
reach, general
> project information is easy to find and clear enough.
>
> Now come to site as a developper : you know what Mono
is, you have
> dowloaded and installed it. You have precise goals in
mind about your
> documentation search and no time to loose in guessing
where the stuff
> could be. If you wish to get the right thing right
now... not very easy
> :-(.

Concerning this I'm having another Idea. Recently I was
thinking about of 
rewriting the Use-Page. At the moment it is just a list of
tools that can be 
used but I'm thinking of rewriting it in a way that does not
show what of 
mono can be used but in what way mono can be used.

For example:
Use case 1: Develop Cross Plattform Apps.
Use case 2: Develop Web Apps.
Use case 3: Port an App from Windows to Linux.
Use case 4: Embedd Mono into your App.
Use case 5: Something completely different.

Each of those use cases should contain a link to a page
which summarizes the 
use case and gives hints and shortcuts how to achieve the
goal. (Okay the 
last one should point to a place where for example research
projects based on 
mono can publish what they've done so far and how they have
achieved it...)

>  From my point of view, the developer related
documentation will need
> a different approach sooner or later as Mono
popularity, maturity and
> user base are growing. You cannot afford to keep it
scattered on many
> pages with no clear linking and no easily browsable
central point.
> That will be a nightmare to maintain, a pain to consult
and a huge
> source of frustation.

I agree and believe that we are at this point right now.

> This new approach /could be/ a Wikipedia-like site but
wholly
> dedicated to Mono. Several reasons :
>
> 1 - We are very familiar with Wikipedia so using (say)
Monopedia will
> not require extra learning effort
> 2 - A wiki usage is natural especially for a developper
and offers a
> high level a flexibility and diversity
> 3 - Monopedia could follow the same philosophy as
Wikipedia :
> everyone can contribute freely in
"real-time".

This is something where we have to be extremely carefull.
The class documentation for example has a
user-documentation-submission 
system. But all submissions have to be checked for approval
because users 
sometimes copy and paste stuff from the MSDN and we can not
use this content.

> (3' - Writing and cross-referencing between articles is
really simple)
> 4 - The wiki documentation grows by itself in the
background and
> allow the Mono documentation team concentrate on other
tasks.
>
> Do you think this kind of perspective could be
compatible with the
> Mono documentation project (short/long term) ? I
welcome any
> opinion/criticism 
>
> </personal point of view>
>
> Valentin, I would be very glad to help you and any Mono
documentation
> project efforts in manner or another.

I and the whole Mono-Project are very thankfull for your
contributions in this 
discussion. 

Kind Regards,
Valentin Sawadski
_______________________________________________
Mono-docs-list maillist  -  Mono-docs-listlists.ximian.com
http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-docs-list

Hello,

> For example:
> Use case 1: Develop Cross Plattform Apps.
> Use case 2: Develop Web Apps.
> Use case 3: Port an App from Windows to Linux.
> Use case 4: Embedd Mono into your App.
> Use case 5: Something completely different.

This is a good idea, but I would start by writing the
content, and then
updating the page.

Another thing that I find useful myself are the various
"Waltkthroughs"
or "Howtos" that are typically available on the
Microsoft documentation.

We are lacking a lot of these.   

_______________________________________________
Mono-docs-list maillist  -  Mono-docs-listlists.ximian.com
http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-docs-list

Hi,

On Thursday 17 May 2007 17:09, you wrote:
> Hello,
>
> > For example:
> > Use case 1: Develop Cross Plattform Apps.
> > Use case 2: Develop Web Apps.
> > Use case 3: Port an App from Windows to Linux.
> > Use case 4: Embedd Mono into your App.
> > Use case 5: Something completely different.
>
> This is a good idea, but I would start by writing the
content, and then
> updating the page.

Good Idea, I've just created a Sandbox-Category for articles
currently under 
construction, hopefully it will be used.

However, if anybody is interested in my progress of
rewriting the Use-page 
please check http://www.mono-project.com/New_Version_of_the_Use-Page
(Comments and Contributions are welcome 

> Another thing that I find useful myself are the various
"Waltkthroughs"
> or "Howtos" that are typically available on
the Microsoft documentation.
>
> We are lacking a lot of these.

Indeed but I believe we should first tackle the stuff that
we already have in 
our wiki before creating new content.

Kind Regards,
Valentin Sawadski
_______________________________________________
Mono-docs-list maillist  -  Mono-docs-listlists.ximian.com
http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-docs-list

Hello,

> > Another thing that I find useful myself are the
various "Waltkthroughs"
> > or "Howtos" that are typically available
on the Microsoft documentation.
> >
> > We are lacking a lot of these.
> 
> Indeed but I believe we should first tackle the stuff
that we already have in 
> our wiki before creating new content.

Well, we could do those in parallel.

We could use many Java and .NET walktroughs as samples, use
those as
references and just write the equivalent for Mono and Gtk#.


_______________________________________________
Mono-docs-list maillist  -  Mono-docs-listlists.ximian.com
http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-docs-list