Default core theme

On 24-Oct-06, at 10:29 AM, Walt Daniels wrote:

> It depends on what your objective is for the core
theme.  
> Themetastic is not easy to modify because of the color
gradients,  
> you can not just change a few colors in the CSS and go
from blue to  
> green. If the objective is to brand Drupal, Themetastic
does a  
> better job.
>
> There needs to be at least one theme in core, i.e.
highly  
> supported, that is easy to modify. Bluemarine is easy
to modify!
>

I agree with this. It's why we've been pushing to have Zen
(probably  
with both the Deliciously Zen skin and the more plain
"wireframe"  
skin) included in addition to Themetastic as the default
theme. The  
fact that there have been at least 4-5 completely distinct
themes  
built on Zen that change nothing but a CSS file is testament
to the  
fact that it is powerful, flexible, and easy to modify.

If there's resistance to putting in two "new"
themes, then one of us  
could probably easily port something like Bluemarine to Zen
and  
include it that way.

-Angie

> If there's resistance to putting in two "new"
> themes, then one of us  
> could probably easily port something like Bluemarine
> to Zen and  
> include it that way.
> 
> -Angie

Someone has already ported bluemarine to zen/holy
grail layout:

http://drupal.org
/project/holygrail

Description:
"This theme is a reimplementation of the Bluemarine
theme using the "Holy Grail" layout, as presented
by A
List Apart:

http://w
ww.alistapart.com/articles/holygrail

Visually it should be nearly identical to Bluemarine.
It is intended more as a demonstration of using a Holy
Grail layout in a Drupal theme than as a theme itself.
Hopefully this will help spawn a bunch more pure-CSS
themes. 
Enjoy!"



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> "This theme is a reimplementation of the
Bluemarine
> theme using the "Holy Grail" layout, as
presented by A
> List Apart:
>
> http://w
ww.alistapart.com/articles/holygrail
>
> Visually it should be nearly identical to Bluemarine.
> It is intended more as a demonstration of using a Holy
> Grail layout in a Drupal theme than as a theme itself.
> Hopefully this will help spawn a bunch more pure-CSS
> themes. 
Enjoy!"


This layout is most likely unusable for Drupal as it uses
the  
following trick to ensure equal height columns:

#container {
   overflow: hidden;
}
#container .column {
   padding-bottom: 20010px;  /* X + padding-bottom */
   margin-bottom: -20000px;  /* X */
}
#footer {
   position: relative;
}

This is known to cause problems with anchors for which there
is no  
real fix:
http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles
/onetruelayout/appendix/ 
equalheightproblems

Steven Wittens

> #container .column {
>   padding-bottom: 20010px;  /* X + padding-bottom */
>   margin-bottom: -20000px;  /* X */
> }

For us to even think about promoting such horrific code
would be an 
affront to every bit of quality in other parts of Drupal.
How evil!

-- 
Morbus Iff ( cheese and rice saves )
Technical: http://www.oreil
lynet.com/pub/au/779
Culture: http://www.disobey.com/
and http://www.gamegrene.com/
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff /
jabber.org: morbus

> For us to even think about promoting such horrific code
would be an  
> affront to every bit of quality in other parts of
Drupal. How evil!

Well you can't have your cake and eat it too... people want
tableless  
themes. They are impossible without at least some degree of
CSS  
hacks. Otherwise, you must go for tabled, and hardcode it in
the  
markup, which is non-semantic.

Steven Wittens

On 10/24/06, Morbus Iff <morbusdisobey.com> wrote:
> > #container .column {
> >   padding-bottom: 20010px;  /* X + padding-bottom
*/
> >   margin-bottom: -20000px;  /* X */
> > }
>
> For us to even think about promoting such horrific code
would be an
> affront to every bit of quality in other parts of
Drupal. How evil!

But, if it's any consolation, you just received a "+10
outrage
powerup" for this message :P

-- Boris Mann

> Well you can't have your cake and eat it too... people
want tableless 
> themes. They are impossible without at least some
degree of CSS hacks. 
> Otherwise, you must go for tabled, and hardcode it in
the markup, which 

But you'll have to admit that there are CSS hacks that are
more 
"acceptable" than others. Accepting a 20000px
padding hack is far more 
difficult than accepting a html > sorta hack (or whatever
the hell they 
are - I tend not to use any CSS hacks for my themes, but
then again, I 
don't build three column themes every day).

Then again, I'm of the position that a properly built tabled
layout CAN 
be semantic. That's a long ass discussion for another day
though ;)

-- 
Morbus Iff ( whooooooo's hoooouuuuuse? )
Technical: http://www.oreil
lynet.com/pub/au/779
Culture: http://www.disobey.com/
and http://www.gamegrene.com/
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff /
jabber.org: morbus

On Tuesday 24 October 2006 15:06, Farsheed wrote:
> > If there's resistance to putting in two
"new"
> > themes, then one of us
> > could probably easily port something like
Bluemarine
> > to Zen and
> > include it that way.
> >
> > -Angie
>
> Someone has already ported bluemarine to zen/holy
> grail layout:
>
> http://drupal.org
/project/holygrail

That someone would be me.   And as
that theme's author, I can say it's not 
really production-usable.  There are some bugs that have
been noted against 
it where it dies a horrible death in IE.  I'm not sure if
that's due to 
issues in the original ALA design or in my port (and why I
didn't see them 
during development I don't know either), but I've really not
had time lately 
to fix them.  (Patches always welcome. </plug>)

A better-implemented Zen-like CSS version of Bluemarine like
Angie is 
proposing would be fine by me, and assuming it breaks less
than holygrail I'd 
probably officially deprecate holygrail in favor of it.  I
make no claims of 
being a CSS layout ninja.   As long
as there's a good base for doing 
CSS-based designs without starting from scratch, I'm happy.

As I've said before, I *like* Bluemarine when I'm doing
development.  It's 
dull, boring, and gets out of my way so that I can focus on
the code, knowing 
every time look at the browser that I'm developing to a
temporary look.  
Please, let's keep some Bluemarine-like theme in core for
exactly that 
reason, whatever it's internal code structure is. 

-- 
Larry Garfield			AIM: LOLG42
larrygarfieldtech.com		ICQ: 6817012

"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than
all others of 
exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power
called an idea, 
which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he
keeps it to 
himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself
into the possession 
of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of
it."  -- Thomas 
Jefferson

Steven Wittens wrote:
>> For us to even think about promoting such horrific
code would be an 
>> affront to every bit of quality in other parts of
Drupal. How evil!
> 
> Well you can't have your cake and eat it too... people
want tableless 
> themes. They are impossible without at least some
degree of CSS hacks. 
> Otherwise, you must go for tabled, and hardcode it in
the markup, which 
> is non-semantic.

I tried the 'holy grail' layout and was left unimpressed. 
It is way too 
complex and I found that it didn't behave very well.  I
wanted links to 
anchors in a page to jump down to a different section, with
the 'holy 
grail' CSS this is broken.  I would be against anything
based on it.

Having said that, I can find no clean way of doing a three
column 
*fluid* layout in CSS which has fixed size left and right
columns and a 
fluid centre column and which also permits floats in the
centre column 
(i.e., the centre column itself has to be floated to start a
new float 
context).  The only method I have found is the one used on
drupal.org 
where the left and right columns are percentages of the
width.

-- 
Martin Tomes
echo 'martin at tomes x org x uk'
  | sed -e 's/ x /./g' -e 's/ at //'

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