What's a critical issue

Hi,

I think that nothing concerning postgresql or Windows can be
a critical.

Regards,

NK

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:24:35 +0200
"Karoly Negyesi" <karolynegyesi.net> wrote:

> Hi,

> I think that nothing concerning postgresql or Windows
can be a
> critical.

If you say this in no more than a year you'll have a mono DB
CMS.

-- 
Ivan Sergio Borgonovo
http://www.webthatworks.it

On 10/19/07, Ivan Sergio Borgonovo <mailwebthatworks.it> wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:24:35 +0200
> "Karoly Negyesi" <karolynegyesi.net> wrote:
> > I think that nothing concerning postgresql or
Windows can be a
> > critical.
>
> If you say this in no more than a year you'll have a
mono DB CMS.

And?

This is a Do-ocracy.  We have the system that people make
and
maintain.  If people don't consistently step up to maintain
postgresql
or maintain Drupal on Windows then yes, support for those
platforms
will slowly degrade and should be dropped.

Greg

-- 
Greg Knaddison
Denver, CO | http://knaddison.com
World Spanish Tour | http://wanderlusti
ng.org/user/greg

On 10/19/07, Greg Knaddison - GVS <Greggrowingventuresolutions.com> wrote:
> On 10/19/07, Ivan Sergio Borgonovo <mailwebthatworks.it> wrote:
> > On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:24:35 +0200
> > "Karoly Negyesi" <karolynegyesi.net> wrote:
> > > I think that nothing concerning postgresql or
Windows can be a
> > > critical.
> >
> > If you say this in no more than a year you'll have
a mono DB CMS.
>
> And?
>
> This is a Do-ocracy.  We have the system that people
make and
> maintain.  If people don't consistently step up to
maintain postgresql
> or maintain Drupal on Windows then yes, support for
those platforms
> will slowly degrade and should be dropped.

Greg, the issue at hand is that the critical queue has some
PostgreSQL
and Windows fixes, on which people actually work on. This
thread is
about chx's views on the world, not about the lack of people
acting on
fixing PostgreSQL or Windows bugs in the issue queue.

Gabor

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:28:04 -0300
"Greg Knaddison - GVS" <GregGrowingVentureSolutions.com> wrote:

> On 10/19/07, Ivan Sergio Borgonovo <mailwebthatworks.it> wrote:
> > On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:24:35 +0200
> > "Karoly Negyesi" <karolynegyesi.net> wrote:
> > > I think that nothing concerning postgresql or
Windows can be a
> > > critical.
> >
> > If you say this in no more than a year you'll have
a mono DB CMS.
> 
> And?
> 
> This is a Do-ocracy.  We have the system that people
make and

Every time I step into a problem I report it I fix it an
provide the
patch.

Once you become a mono DB CMS without a DB abstraction layer
*it is
hard to go back*.

> maintain.  If people don't consistently step up to
maintain
> postgresql or maintain Drupal on Windows then yes,
support for
> those platforms will slowly degrade and should be
dropped.

pgsql has a longer history of supporting transactions, IIS
is a
rising web server.
Most of the fixes I had to make were on modules and they
were trivial.

-- 
Ivan Sergio Borgonovo
http://www.webthatworks.it

Any idea what's behind that?  I truly can't imagine ever
hosting any of 
my sites on Windows - in my experience it's been an unstable
bloated 
piece of crap.  I used to work for an ISP that had about
half Windows 
servers and half Unix and we had unix servers that had
uptimes of over a 
year, but the Windows servers were lucky if they managed to
stay up for 
more than a month.



Tomas J. Fulopp wrote:
> Whatever feelings we may have about Windows, the
platform needs to stay 
> supported if we want Drupal to thrive in the future.
> 
> As http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html
 shows, 
> Apache declines dramatically in terms of server market
share, and 
> Microsoft gets stronger and stronger.
> 
> As a consequence, I think it is safe to assume that
also the number of 
> Drupal installations on Windows will be increasing...
> 
> Tomáš / Vacilando
> 
> 
> 
> Greg Knaddison - GVS wrote:
>> On 10/19/07, Ivan Sergio Borgonovo <mailwebthatworks.it> wrote:
>>   
>>> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:24:35 +0200
>>> "Karoly Negyesi" <karolynegyesi.net> wrote:
>>>     
>>>> I think that nothing concerning postgresql
or Windows can be a
>>>> critical.
>>>>       
>>> If you say this in no more than a year you'll
have a mono DB CMS.
>>>     
>>
>> And?
>>
>> This is a Do-ocracy.  We have the system that
people make and
>> maintain.  If people don't consistently step up to
maintain postgresql
>> or maintain Drupal on Windows then yes, support for
those platforms
>> will slowly degrade and should be dropped.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>   

-- 
Sean Robertson
Web Developer
NGP Software, Inc.
seanrngpsoftware.com
(202) 686-9330
http://www.ngpsoftware.com

On 10/19/07, Sean Robertson <seanrngpsoftware.com> wrote:
> Any idea what's behind that?

The future is always changing...

>  I truly can't imagine ever hosting any of
> my sites on Windows - in my experience it's been an
unstable bloated
> piece of crap.  I used to work for an ISP that had
about half Windows
> servers and half Unix and we had unix servers that had
uptimes of over a
> year, but the Windows servers were lucky if they
managed to stay up for
> more than a month.

It does not real matters what is the uptime. If a machine
goes down,
once per week, but if its up in less than 5 minutes it is
still a
99.95% uptime. For the majority of people that is perfectly
fine.

OTOH, Apache is a beast! I really don't know who consumes
more memory:
Apache or IIS?

Also, I see more and more sites done with ASP.NET, because
it really
catches a great number of programmers. Due to a mature
framework, with
the idea of "compiled" code without having to
learn to much...

And we must admit, a Windows Server is a different kind of
animal than
a Windows 2000/XP (Vista does not count! It sucks!) having
really few
problems and a great integration of software and services.

Windows Server 2003 + AD + IIS + Exchange = 1 day to install
from
ground zero, with complete integration between all them.

Linux + OpenLDAP + Apache + (Exim or Postfix) = hmmmm how
much? and
with what integration?

All my external web servers are based on Debian with
Lighttpd
webserver and mail servers based on Exim or Postfix (these
last will
be transfered to a specific mail service provider).

The future? Hmmm... how about a world of FastCGI
applications routed
through Lighttpd webservers?! At least I'm working for
that...

Regards,
  Fernando

At 17.50 19/10/2007, you wrote:

>Linux + OpenLDAP + Apache + (Exim or Postfix) = hmmmm
how much? and
>with what integration?

1 hour.

Ciao!

--8<-----------------------------------fnord-----
Piermaria Maraziti piermariamaraziti.it KALLISTI
ICQ744473  MSN:kallistihotmail.it  +3934735GILDA
www.gilda.it   www.eridia.it   www.hovistocose.it

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:24:56 -0400
Sean Robertson <seanrngpsoftware.com> wrote:

> Any idea what's behind that?  I truly can't imagine
ever hosting
> any of my sites on Windows - in my experience it's been
an unstable
> bloated piece of crap.  I used to work for an ISP that
had about
> half Windows servers and half Unix and we had unix
servers that had
> uptimes of over a year, but the Windows servers were
lucky if they
> managed to stay up for more than a month.

I've been administering Windows servers and it is not that
terrible.
If Windows didn't insist on rebooting after most upgrade I
would have
had pretty high uptimes.
I didn't have a chance to administer W2003 and it should be
better.
I still find it a PITA to administer remotely but they added
a quite
powerful shell to W2003. I don't know if they have anything
resembling ssh... but now you can have pretty cheap VPN
setup.
.NET, C# and their JIT is not bad at all and at my knowledge
there
aren't mature VM for php, python, ruby.

Part of the loss in market share is due to Google.
Part is due to MSN Live.

Anyway there is a part that is net loss and I've the same
question.
Why are they switching?
Part could be availability of programmers as it was with
VB.

I don't think keep on feeling on the Olympus is a good
attitude.
I've no competence to help the Apache HTTP project.

BTW I've no sympathy for Windows...

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:50:20 +0100
"Fernando Silva" <fsilva.ptgmail.com> wrote:

> Linux + OpenLDAP + Apache + (Exim or Postfix) = hmmmm
how much? and
> with what integration?

While they may have less integration out of the box I think
you can
install LAMP in a much more streamline way.

-- 
Ivan Sergio Borgonovo
http://www.webthatworks.it

On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 07:10:27PM +0200, Ivan Sergio
Borgonovo wrote:
> "Fernando Silva" <fsilva.ptgmail.com> wrote:
> > Linux + OpenLDAP + Apache + (Exim or Postfix) =
hmmmm how much? and
> > with what integration?
> While they may have less integration out of the box I
think you can
> install LAMP in a much more streamline way.

On Ubuntu server all you have to do is select the
"lamp-server" task in
aptitude, and install it.

That's the easy part.  What takes some time is locking down
the box
security-wise.  I have no idea how that's done on Windows; I
haven't
done any technical work on one of those for about ten
years.

I'm assuming SVN, Drupal, Trac and all that would take
similar amounts
of time to install on both systems?
-c.
--
Colan Schwartz
Internet Consultant  |  Openject Consulting  |  http://www.openject.com/