2 questions - ltsp sound and unreliable booting

Hey
I am just setting up a pilot thin client lab for my kids
school and I
hit a couple of snags. The first on is sound on the thin
client- the
sound works on logging in and I can get other system sounds
to work
but so far totem, xmms,real player, beep media player and
VLC media
player dont work - no complaints from any of these - just
silence.
if I mouse over an mp3 file on the desktop it will stat
playing and it
also appears that rythmbox works as well. I have tested all
the
options in sound preferences and the only one that works is
ESD - all
the others fail silently.

The other problem I am having is unreliable booting of the
thin
client. it can take up to three power cycles to fully boot
the client-
it either hangs just after the progress bar starts moving on
the
edubuntu boot screen or it boots successfully. How do I
debug this
sort of thing are there any kernel messages on the thin
client? if so
where are they.

Any help on these issues would be great as I really want to
put the
best foot forward for edubuntu when presenting this to the
school.

Details
edubuntu 6.10
thin client IBM pc 300gl with pxe boot

rob

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Hi,

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006, Rob Shugg wrote:

> The first on is sound on the thin client- the sound
works on logging in
> and I can get other system sounds to work but so far
totem, xmms,real
> player, beep media player and VLC media player dont
work - no complaints
> from any of these - just silence.  if I mouse over an
mp3 file on the
> desktop it will stat playing and it also appears that
rythmbox works as
> well. I have tested all the options in sound
preferences and the only one
> that works is ESD - all the others fail silently.

As you probably already understand, all of these
applications are running
on the server so in the normal run of things, they send
their output to the
sound card on the server.  In the case of sound on thin
clients, the
program is told that it must play through esd across the
network to the
thin client.  It seems likely that some applications are
aware of this and
some are still trying to play through the local sound card.

You could test this theory by putting speakers in the server
sound card and
checking do you get sound through that.

As I understand it, the general way to instruct applications
to play
through ESD is to set the ESPEAKER environment variable. 
Perhaps you might
try this to investigate what's going on:

1. Start a terminal.
2. Type:
	echo $ESPEAKER
   if it replies <thinclientip>:<portnumber>
it's correct, otherwise
   something may be wrong.
3. Try starting some of the problem applications direct from
the command
   line and see does sound work.
4. If the ESPEAKER is not set, set it with
	export ESPEAKER=192.168.0.143:16001
   where the thin client ip is 192.168.0.143 and the esd
port number is
   16001 (I'm not sure what the port number usually is but
this is probably
   a reasonable guess).
5. Try the applications again from the command line and see
does [4] help.

You can certainly point xmms/beep direct at your esound
daemon by hand,
under the output plugins you can tell it to use esound
output, with ip and
port number.  It should really respond to the environment
variable though.
I suspect you can probably configure vlc and totem
similarly.

It would be interesting to get a list of those apps which
you find ignore
the environment variable.

> The other problem I am having is unreliable booting of
the thin
> client. it can take up to three power cycles to fully
boot the client-
> it either hangs just after the progress bar starts
moving on the
> edubuntu boot screen or it boots successfully. How do I
debug this
> sort of thing are there any kernel messages on the thin
client? if so
> where are they.

I'm not sure about this, there should be some way to get it
to boot in a
"verbose" mode, but I'm still in ubuntu dapper
which is a little more
talkative at boot time so I haven't had to do this.  Does
any text appear
at all?

Gavin



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Gavin
Thanks for these details, I'll test these out tonight and
report back.
I did do a bit more probing on the boot issue and i think
its related
to NFS mounting failures but I dont have the details with me
at the
moment.

Rob

On 13/11/06, Gavin McCullagh <gmccullaghgmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2006, Rob Shugg wrote:
>
> > The first on is sound on the thin client- the
sound works on logging in
> > and I can get other system sounds to work but so
far totem, xmms,real
> > player, beep media player and VLC media player
dont work - no complaints
> > from any of these - just silence.  if I mouse over
an mp3 file on the
> > desktop it will stat playing and it also appears
that rythmbox works as
> > well. I have tested all the options in sound
preferences and the only one
> > that works is ESD - all the others fail silently.
>
> As you probably already understand, all of these
applications are running
> on the server so in the normal run of things, they send
their output to the
> sound card on the server.  In the case of sound on thin
clients, the
> program is told that it must play through esd across
the network to the
> thin client.  It seems likely that some applications
are aware of this and
> some are still trying to play through the local sound
card.
>
> You could test this theory by putting speakers in the
server sound card and
> checking do you get sound through that.
>
> As I understand it, the general way to instruct
applications to play
> through ESD is to set the ESPEAKER environment
variable.  Perhaps you might
> try this to investigate what's going on:
>
> 1. Start a terminal.
> 2. Type:
>         echo $ESPEAKER
>    if it replies
<thinclientip>:<portnumber> it's correct,
otherwise
>    something may be wrong.
> 3. Try starting some of the problem applications direct
from the command
>    line and see does sound work.
> 4. If the ESPEAKER is not set, set it with
>         export ESPEAKER=192.168.0.143:16001
>    where the thin client ip is 192.168.0.143 and the
esd port number is
>    16001 (I'm not sure what the port number usually is
but this is probably
>    a reasonable guess).
> 5. Try the applications again from the command line and
see does [4] help.
>
> You can certainly point xmms/beep direct at your esound
daemon by hand,
> under the output plugins you can tell it to use esound
output, with ip and
> port number.  It should really respond to the
environment variable though.
> I suspect you can probably configure vlc and totem
similarly.
>
> It would be interesting to get a list of those apps
which you find ignore
> the environment variable.
>
> > The other problem I am having is unreliable
booting of the thin
> > client. it can take up to three power cycles to
fully boot the client-
> > it either hangs just after the progress bar starts
moving on the
> > edubuntu boot screen or it boots successfully. How
do I debug this
> > sort of thing are there any kernel messages on the
thin client? if so
> > where are they.
>
> I'm not sure about this, there should be some way to
get it to boot in a
> "verbose" mode, but I'm still in ubuntu
dapper which is a little more
> talkative at boot time so I haven't had to do this. 
Does any text appear
> at all?
>
> Gavin
>
>
>
> --
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> edubuntu-userslists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users

>


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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rob Shugg <robkinetic.com.au>
Date: 15-Nov-2006 21:01
Subject: Re: 2 questions - ltsp sound and unreliable booting
To: Edubuntu Users Group <edubuntu-userslists.ubuntu.com>


> > 1. Start a terminal.
> > 2. Type:
> >         echo $ESPEAKER
> >    if it replies
<thinclientip>:<portnumber> it's correct,

yep looks good
~$ echo $ESPEAKER
192.168.0.150:16001

but I did plug my headphones into the server and tested alsa
from the
sound preferences - and yes the sound was comming out of the
server
sound card...
Next I tried xmms from the command line and surpisingly it
worked, i
could hear the mp3 playing from the client. So I thought Id
give totem
a go- that worked too... but after closing these down and
restarting
them I get nothing again :-(
totem gives me :
video_out_xshm: received X error event: BadAccess (attempt
to access
private resource denied) and no sound
So I am not sure where to go with this now.

on the other issue- this seems to be the last point the boot
gets to
before the hang. I have googled a few references to it but
so for
nothing definitive for edgy:
RPC: failed to contact portmap (errno -5)

Any leads most appreciated

rob

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Hi,

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006, Rob Shugg wrote:

> yep looks good
> ~$ echo $ESPEAKER
> 192.168.0.150:16001
> 
> but I did plug my headphones into the server and tested
alsa from the
> sound preferences - and yes the sound was comming out
of the server
> sound card...
> Next I tried xmms from the command line and surpisingly
it worked, i
> could hear the mp3 playing from the client. So I
thought Id give totem
> a go- that worked too... 

It sort of sounds like the ESPEAKER environment variable is
not set for
programs launched from the gnome menus.  I'm not certain
where it gets set
and I don't have edubuntu to hand just at the minute.

I think you can test it like this.   /usr/bin/firefox should
be a wrapper
script.  Open it up with an editor (you'll need sudo) and
add this line to
the start of the script 

	export >/tmp/firefox_env_vars

Then launch firefox from the menus and take a look at
/tmp/firefox_env_vars
which should contain all the env vars as they are for
firefox.  If the
ESPEAKER is set, you should see a line something like:

	declare -x ESPEAKER="192.168.0.150:16001".

if not, that's a problem.  The same env vars should be
available to other
programs run from the menus.  Then try running firefox from
the command
line and you should see the ESPEAKER line in the file.

> but after closing these down and restarting
> them I get nothing again :-(
> totem gives me :
> video_out_xshm: received X error event: BadAccess
(attempt to access
> private resource denied) and no sound

The fact that it didn't work a second time sounds sort of
like a problem
with esd hanging or something.  Is this repeatable?  Does
any program
produce sound at that point or is the problem just with
totem?  

I would have thought the xshm error was an X issue, which
shouldn't really
affect sound.  It might be that totem stops playing due to
it I guess.

> on the other issue- this seems to be the last point the
boot gets to
> before the hang. I have googled a few references to it
but so for
> nothing definitive for edgy:
> RPC: failed to contact portmap (errno -5)

Sounds like the portmapper's failing to start on the client
for some
reason.  This would prevent any nfs file sharing from
working, which would
prevent the thin client from booting.  That it only happens
sometimes might
suggest a race condition in the init scripts, ie that
portmapper has not
started _yet_ at the point the nfs mount is called.

Gavin


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Gavin
Sorry for the delay in getting back with details, i'm caught
up in end
of year madness...
I checked the export settings when starting programs from
the menu and
I'm seeing:
export ESPEAKER='192.168.0.150:16001'
so that looks good.
I dont seem to be able to repeat my previous results now the
only
sound that works on the client are:
-the test tones in sound preferences
-mouseover on an mp3 file on the desktop (top shows this as
mpg123)

So I wonder if this is hogging the sound device. I tried to
uninstall
mpg123 but apt says its not installed - I suspect its part
of another
package, in any case I disabled it by renaming the binary
and
rebooting - no joy sound still comes out of the server.
hmmm...

on the other issue I have tried this :
http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/N
FS#NFS_Server_not_responding
and so far it seems to have improved the boot reliability
but I need
to do more testing to be sure

Rob


On 15/11/06, Gavin McCullagh <gmccullaghgmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, 15 Nov 2006, Rob Shugg wrote:
>
> > yep looks good
> > ~$ echo $ESPEAKER
> > 192.168.0.150:16001
> >
> > but I did plug my headphones into the server and
tested alsa from the
> > sound preferences - and yes the sound was comming
out of the server
> > sound card...
> > Next I tried xmms from the command line and
surpisingly it worked, i
> > could hear the mp3 playing from the client. So I
thought Id give totem
> > a go- that worked too...
>
> It sort of sounds like the ESPEAKER environment
variable is not set for
> programs launched from the gnome menus.  I'm not
certain where it gets set
> and I don't have edubuntu to hand just at the minute.
>
> I think you can test it like this.   /usr/bin/firefox
should be a wrapper
> script.  Open it up with an editor (you'll need sudo)
and add this line to
> the start of the script
>
>         export >/tmp/firefox_env_vars
>
> Then launch firefox from the menus and take a look at
/tmp/firefox_env_vars
> which should contain all the env vars as they are for
firefox.  If the
> ESPEAKER is set, you should see a line something like:
>
>         declare -x
ESPEAKER="192.168.0.150:16001".
>
> if not, that's a problem.  The same env vars should be
available to other
> programs run from the menus.  Then try running firefox
from the command
> line and you should see the ESPEAKER line in the file.
>
> > but after closing these down and restarting
> > them I get nothing again :-(
> > totem gives me :
> > video_out_xshm: received X error event: BadAccess
(attempt to access
> > private resource denied) and no sound
>
> The fact that it didn't work a second time sounds sort
of like a problem
> with esd hanging or something.  Is this repeatable? 
Does any program
> produce sound at that point or is the problem just with
totem?
>
> I would have thought the xshm error was an X issue,
which shouldn't really
> affect sound.  It might be that totem stops playing due
to it I guess.
>
> > on the other issue- this seems to be the last
point the boot gets to
> > before the hang. I have googled a few references
to it but so for
> > nothing definitive for edgy:
> > RPC: failed to contact portmap (errno -5)
>
> Sounds like the portmapper's failing to start on the
client for some
> reason.  This would prevent any nfs file sharing from
working, which would
> prevent the thin client from booting.  That it only
happens sometimes might
> suggest a race condition in the init scripts, ie that
portmapper has not
> started _yet_ at the point the nfs mount is called.
>
> Gavin
>
>
> --
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>


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Hi,

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006, Rob Shugg wrote:

> I checked the export settings when starting programs
from the menu and
> I'm seeing:
> export ESPEAKER='192.168.0.150:16001'
> so that looks good.
> I dont seem to be able to repeat my previous results
now the only
> sound that works on the client are:
> -the test tones in sound preferences
> -mouseover on an mp3 file on the desktop (top shows
this as mpg123)

So mpg123 is respecting the ESPEAKER and sending output to
the thin client.

> So I wonder if this is hogging the sound device. 

Assuming ESD is running, ESD hogs the sound device so
nothing else could.
mpg123 would have to play via esd.  If you think about it,
mpg123 isn't
even running on the thin client so it has no direct access
to sound card to
hog it.

> I tried to uninstall mpg123 but apt says its not
installed - I suspect
> its part of another package, 

It's probably mpg321 (a re-implementation with better
license).  But don't
remove it, it's one of the things that _is_ working right.

> in any case I disabled it by renaming the binary and
rebooting - no joy
> sound still comes out of the server.  hmmm...

Sound from what program?  Your problem seems to be at least
one of:

1. Individual programs are not respecting the ESPEAKER
variable.  Instead
   they're ignoring it and sending sound output to the
server sound card.

2. The ESPEAKER variable is not actually set in the
environment of the
   programs your running.  You mentioned that totem's sound
worked when
   you started it from the command line.  This might
indicate the ESPEAKER
   variable is not set except from the command line.  This
is why I
   suggested adding the debug line to /usr/bin/firefox -- so
you can see
   what ENV vars are set.

3. esd is not behaving well on the thin client, eg crashing.
 

If a program consistently plays through the server sound
card, it seems the
issue must be [1] or [2].  If you can figure out which, that
would be a big
help.  If it's [2] we need to fix the environment, if it's
[1] we need to
report a bug against that program.  What would be best is if
you could
compile a list of programs you've tested, which work
properly, which play
to the server and whether they work better when you set the
env var and run
from the command line.  Also, if there's any reliability
issues, ie [3], we
need to know about them too.

Sound support on thin clients in Edubuntu is new in Edgy so
there are
inevitably some wrinkles.  The quickest way to get them
fixed is with
detailed reports of what works, what doesn't and when.

> on the other issue I have tried this :
> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/N
FS#NFS_Server_not_responding
> and so far it seems to have improved the boot
reliability but I need
> to do more testing to be sure

Sounds like progress.

Is there an Edubuntu thin client troubleshooting page?  If
not could we
start one on a wiki somewhere?  I have a few standard
problems which need
documenting, eg problems caused by having two network cards
in a thin
client (say an on-board and a pci pxe card).  The above
issue seems like a
good one to get documented clearly.

Gavin


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Ok, so far the apps that send sound out of the server are:
-xmms
-realplay
-totem

Sounds that come out on the thin client are:
-mouse over on mp3 file on desktop(mpg123)
-test button in sound preferences

I put the export line in the realplay script as suggested
and found :
export ESPEAKER='192.168.0.150:16001'
in the output file so I think this maybe rules out
possibility 2

Also I have not been able to get any to the top three to
work again
from the command line, so Im not sure whats happening there
- its
probably dependant on some sequence of events i had done in
the lead
up to that testing that made them work...

I put in a bug report last night as Im pretty sure this is a
wrinkle.
Ill add this extra info to the report to give a more
complete picture
https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+b
ug/73346


>
> Is there an Edubuntu thin client troubleshooting page? 
If not could we
> start one on a wiki somewhere?  I have a few standard
problems which need
> documenting, eg problems caused by having two network
cards in a thin
> client (say an on-board and a pci pxe card).  The above
issue seems like a
> good one to get documented clearly.
>

Good idea. Im ready to help on that when this is worked out.

rob

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Just for the record I thought I should post an update on
this:
Still having same troubles with sound - no progress there.

on the other issue - the unreliable boots, I have had some
success. I
initially thought it had something to do with nfs and tried
http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/N
FS#NFS_Server_not_responding
and i thought this fixed the problem - i was i bit premature
in this
assessment, the first few boots after this were just lucky
so I
thought the problem was fixed -no so.
I then went on a tangent with bootchart, trying to get it to
run in
the client boot so I could see where it was hanging. so far
I have not
got that working but in the process i noticed  the
"quiet splash"
directives in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux/default
I took these out so I could see what was happening at boot
and now it
boots every time! - could it be as simple as a problem in
the splash
progress bar?? I have now booted successfully 8 times with
no problems
with the quiet splash directives I am lucky if I get one
good boot in
three. Ive never been a big fan of hiding the boot process
anyway...

rob


On 27/11/06, Rob Shugg <zedkinetic.com.au> wrote:
> Ok, so far the apps that send sound out of the server
are:
> -xmms
> -realplay
> -totem
>
> Sounds that come out on the thin client are:
> -mouse over on mp3 file on desktop(mpg123)
> -test button in sound preferences
>
> I put the export line in the realplay script as
suggested and found :
> export ESPEAKER='192.168.0.150:16001'
> in the output file so I think this maybe rules out
possibility 2
>
> Also I have not been able to get any to the top three
to work again
> from the command line, so Im not sure whats happening
there - its
> probably dependant on some sequence of events i had
done in the lead
> up to that testing that made them work...
>
> I put in a bug report last night as Im pretty sure this
is a wrinkle.
> Ill add this extra info to the report to give a more
complete picture
> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+b
ug/73346
>
>
> >
> > Is there an Edubuntu thin client troubleshooting
page?  If not could we
> > start one on a wiki somewhere?  I have a few
standard problems which need
> > documenting, eg problems caused by having two
network cards in a thin
> > client (say an on-board and a pci pxe card).  The
above issue seems like a
> > good one to get documented clearly.
> >
>
> Good idea. Im ready to help on that when this is worked
out.
>
> rob
>


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