Administration tools

Hi,

Nicolas Pettiaux wrote:
> 2006/6/19, Christian Külker <christian.kuelkercipworx.org>:
> Hello
> 
> I do also use edubuntu and I would appreciate the same
as François:
> install Cipux on Edubuntu to have a global management
tool.
> 
>> yes this is right. But if he followed the
instruction he should have
>> noticed that already. But I think I have told him
that he has to install
>> a LDAP with Skolelinux tree inside. So he may have
done that.
>>
>> CipUX 3.x do not install a Skolelinux LDAP tree by
its own. But I can
>> change that (for Ubuntu).
> 
> 
> I think this would be very good: that the Cipux package
requires the
> needed package it depend on, install and configure the
missing ones,
> expecially the ldap server, configuring it with the
adequate schemas.

I can do it, but tell me where I can get this Ubunto ISO
image you are 
using, so that we can work on the same system ...

Or you can tell me what packages beyond slapd are needed
additional on 
Ubuntu.

You can see the dependencies on:
http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/cipux
/trunk/debian/control?op=file&rev=0&sc=0


> Edubuntu / Abuledu / Debian-edu now all depend on
debian, some
> directely (debian-edu aka skolelinux, and abuledu-pro),
some through
> "ubuntu-nisation" (edubuntu). 

> It would be good if there would be some
> common documentation and adminsitration tools, and
Cipux can be one of
> them.

Yes I think so too. A common tool for School Administration
is the idea 
of CipUX.

So how we can focus on that work on Ubuntu together?

I am in the chat room #debian-edu on irc.oftc.net/6667

Yours
Christian


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2006/6/19, Christian Külker <christian.kuelkercipworx.org>:

> > I think this would be very good: that the Cipux
package requires the
> > needed package it depend on, install and configure
the missing ones,
> > expecially the ldap server, configuring it with
the adequate schemas.
>
> I can do it, but tell me where I can get this Ubunto
ISO image you are
> using, so that we can work on the same system ...

Thank you Christian for your rapid answer

See http://rele
ases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.06/ and especially

http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.06/edu
buntu-6.06-live-i386.iso
that I installed on a new server and that is the last stable
version.
It is a live cd but installable through the
"install" button on the
desktop.

 > Or you can tell me what packages beyond slapd are
needed additional on
> Ubuntu.
>
> You can see the dependencies on:
> http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/cipux
/trunk/debian/control?op=file&rev=0&sc=0

I'll see

> > Edubuntu / Abuledu / Debian-edu now all depend on
debian, some
> > directely (debian-edu aka skolelinux, and
abuledu-pro), some through
> > "ubuntu-nisation" (edubuntu).
>
> > It would be good if there would be some
> > common documentation and adminsitration tools, and
Cipux can be one of
> > them.
>
> Yes I think so too. A common tool for School
Administration is the idea
> of CipUX.
>
> So how we can focus on that work on Ubuntu together?

The discussion about edubuntu goes on  edubuntu-devellists.ubuntu.com
that I put in cc.

Tom Hoffman, the leader of Schooltool, a general framework
to manage
schools from the administrative point of view, has recently
proposed
that the would be some reflection about interoperabilities
between
applications like Schooltool / Moodle ... that deal
respectively
attendance management, timetables, grades ... and with
content and
course management, and I think that integration with Cipux
that deals
more with technical administration management is good.

With respect to Edubuntu, as it is a variant of Ubuntu, its
requests
for specification are managed within the launchpad.net tool.

> I am in the chat room #debian-edu on irc.oftc.net/6667

I am not often on IRC but I'll try to change that.

Thanks,

Nicolas

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HI Nicolas,

Nicolas Pettiaux wrote:
> Thank you Christian for your rapid answer
> 
> See http://rele
ases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.06/ and especially

ok I have a look ...

> http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.06/edu
buntu-6.06-live-i386.iso

oh nice, I will try that.

> that I installed on a new server and that is the last
stable version.
> It is a live cd but installable through the
"install" button on the
> desktop.

good, let see if it installs ...

> The discussion about edubuntu goes on
edubuntu-devellists.ubuntu.com
> that I put in cc.

ok, I subscribed to that list yesterday.

> Tom Hoffman, the leader of Schooltool, a general
framework to manage
> schools from the administrative point of view, has
recently proposed
> that the would be some reflection about
interoperabilities between
> applications like Schooltool / Moodle ... that deal
respectively
> attendance management, timetables, grades ... and with
content and
> course management, and I think that integration with
Cipux that deals
> more with technical administration management is good.

Yes this sounds interesting!

> With respect to Edubuntu, as it is a variant of Ubuntu,
its requests
> for specification are managed within the launchpad.net
tool.

Sorry, I do not understand this sentence. What is the
launchpad.net tool?

> I am not often on IRC but I'll try to change that.

Sometimes it is faster as mail ...

Yours
Christian

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> > With respect to Edubuntu, as it is a variant of
Ubuntu, its requests
> > for specification are managed within the
launchpad.net tool.
>
> Sorry, I do not understand this sentence. What is the
launchpad.net tool?

Launchpad.net is a tool that has been developped by
Canonical, who
manage the developpement of Ubuntu to have a process that is
as open
as possible, while very well comprehensive too. It allows to
define
the specification, see who does what, manage translations
through the
web ...

It can be used for any free software too.

I suppose you'll understand more with an example

Look at

https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/
+spec/student-control-panel-completion

This page describes the specification of a tool
(student-control-panel) available in Edubuntu that allows to
manage
the displays of the students. It could be useful to the
other projects
too.

In order to develop this  student-control-panel tool,
specifications
have been written, people are concerned ...

Evrything is supposedly managed within launchpad.net

is this clearer ?

Nicolas
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Hi,

Nicolas Pettiaux wrote:
  > Launchpad.net is a tool that has been developped by
Canonical, who
> manage the developpement of Ubuntu to have a process
that is as open
> as possible, while very well comprehensive too. It
allows to define
> the specification, see who does what, manage
translations through the
> web ...

> It can be used for any free software too.
> 
> I suppose you'll understand more with an example
> 
> Look at
> 
> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/
+spec/student-control-panel-completion

oh, it looks like sourcforge, gforge, ...

> 
> This page describes the specification of a tool
> (student-control-panel) available in Edubuntu that
allows to manage
> the displays of the students. It could be useful to the
other projects
> too.

yes I think so. Debian-Edu in Germany uses italc for that.

> In order to develop this  student-control-panel tool,
specifications
> have been written, people are concerned ...
> 
> Evrything is supposedly managed within launchpad.net
> 
> is this clearer ?

Yes I understood! Thank you very much!

Yours
Christian




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Mandag 19 juni 2006 18:14, skrev Nicolas Pettiaux:
> Launchpad.net is a tool that has been developped by
Canonical, who
> manage the developpement of Ubuntu to have a process
that is as open
> as possible, while very well comprehensive too. It
allows to define
> the specification, see who does what, manage
translations through the
> web ...

I had hoped you could elaborate a little of what Launchpad
really does. 
What is meant by "open as possible"?

Does users of Launchpad or Launchpad it self commit patches
upstream to 
the different free software projects? After what is said
about the 
Launchpad is that it does not supports upstream commits to
the 
different free software projects. Then that application
introduce a 
workaround for the Debian Edu project, where the Debian
developers 
commits directly to the source. 

Why does Debian Edu developers commit directly upstream to
the source?  
That is done for practical reasons, and makes it more easy
for e.g 
other distributions than *ubuntu to use the applications and

translations made by the developers. There are a lot of free
software 
distributions out there. We have agreements with Debian
based LinEx, 
PSL-Brasil and Edubuntu: 

https://www.skolelinux.org/portal
/press/press_releases/joint_statement_20040702
http:/
/wiki.skolelinux.de/Kooperation/Edubuntu

Skolelinux / Debian Edu has got a request from the One
Laptop per Child 
(OLPC) project to ensure that what we does of translations
and code 
should be commited upstream to the source. The OLPC project
is 
currently based on RedHat. Skolelinux also want that our
effort should 
be easily usable for every educational project with free
software that 
helps and enables the pupils create their own future. It
will also 
makes it more easy for people to choose Debian as a basis
system on 
OLPC for the countries that want's that. Then Launcpad
seems to be a 
workaround ...

> 
https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/
+spec/student-control-panel-completion

After what I've heard this is a spec of an application
thats already 
developed? The LinEx distro in Extremadura has deployed a
pupil desktop 
control application for teachers on their 80.000 desktop
PC's at > 180 
schools. This applications currently works for workstations.
I've not 
heard if it works for thin clients. The applications is
developed by 
LinEx after the specifications from teachers. We had a
demonstration of 
the application at a schools at Extremadura under the Debian
Edu 
gathering there:  

http
://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Extremadura2006

So my question. Is the student-control-panel-completion the
same 
application thats already in production in schools at
Extremadura? Is 
it a improvement with additional features, or is it
something else? 

> Everything is supposedly managed within launchpad.net
>
> is this clearer ?

So whats seems to be a clear cut answer, it's probably not
 So I
hope 
you could add some more information. 

Regrads

Knut Yrvin

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Hello Knut,
(Hi Edubunteros and Debianistas)

Good to hear from you. You are giving some good input, IMHO.
I would
also like to know the answers to your "hard"
questions! 

I seems to me that you are concerned about balkanisation and
duplication
of effort.

> Does users of Launchpad or Launchpad it self commit
patches upstream to 
> the different free software projects? 

Can anyone shed some light on this?

> After what is said about the 
> Launchpad is that it does not supports upstream commits
to the 
> different free software projects. Then that application
introduce a 
> workaround for the Debian Edu project, where the Debian
developers 
> commits directly to the source. 

What is the process in Debian Edu that allows translators to
(easily)
access translation files (.po) and contribute translations?
Is there
also a (web-based) tool for that?

If there is, then 'workaround' might even be a too
friendly word. 

If not, well, you can't blame Launchpad (Rosetta) for not
doing
everything which might be desirable, at once (yet?).

[snip]

> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/
+spec/student-control-panel-completion
> 
> After what I've heard this is a spec of an application
thats already 
> developed? The LinEx distro in Extremadura has deployed
a pupil desktop 
> control application for teachers on their 80.000
desktop PC's at > 180 
> schools. This applications currently works for
workstations. I've not 
> heard if it works for thin clients. The applications is
developed by 
> LinEx after the specifications from teachers. We had a
demonstration of 
> the application at a schools at Extremadura under the
Debian Edu 
> gathering there:  
> 
> http
://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Extremadura2006

This LinEx "pupil desktop control app for
teachers" sounds interesting.
What is the name of it and has it been released under an
open source
license? Is it available separately, or only as part of the
LinEx distro?

I only found a reference to a "graphical control panel
for system
administration" (release notes on distrowatch.org).
And a screenshot of
it at http://www.linex.
org/novedades.html . However, this doesn't look
like a "student control panel" to me, at first
sight.

Anyone from LinEx who could comment?

> So my question. Is the student-control-panel-completion
the same 
> application thats already in production in schools at
Extremadura? Is 
> it a improvement with additional features, or is it
something else? 

Unless the LinEx desktop control app you mention is
available, it will
be difficult for the Edubunteros to answer that question.


Best Greetings,
Philipp


-- 


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::.

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DIN15 / Information Architecture & Interaction Design
www.din15.org, philippdin15.org

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2006/6/19, Knut Yrvin <knutyskolelinux.no>:

I am sorry for not replying earlier. I had no connection.

> Mandag 19 juni 2006 18:14, skrev Nicolas Pettiaux:
> > Launchpad.net is a tool that has been developped
by Canonical, who
> > manage the developpement of Ubuntu to have a
process that is as open
> > as possible, while very well comprehensive too. It
allows to define
> > the specification, see who does what, manage
translations through the
> > web ...
>
> I had hoped you could elaborate a little of what
Launchpad really does.

I am sorry. I'll try to elaborate when I find the time, but
also when
I get more about the tools itself. I do only know as much as
I can
see. And I find that there are many information available
through
launchpad, centralized in one location.

> What is meant by "open as possible"?

all the information is widely available on the site to all.

> Does users of Launchpad or Launchpad it self commit
patches upstream to
> the different free software projects?

good question. I do not know precisely. I hope so. I had
understood
that the Ubuntu team would do that. I'll check when I can.

> After what is said about the
> Launchpad is that it does not supports upstream commits
to the
> different free software projects.

If true, this is an organizational problem that we should
work to
address with the Canonical and Ubuntu team and decision
makers.

> Then that application introduce a
> workaround for the Debian Edu project, where the Debian
developers
> commits directly to the source.

what do you mean by workaround ?

> Why does Debian Edu developers commit directly upstream
to the source?
> That is done for practical reasons, and makes it more
easy for e.g
> other distributions than *ubuntu to use the
applications and
> translations made by the developers. There are a lot of
free software
> distributions out there. We have agreements with Debian
based LinEx,
> PSL-Brasil and Edubuntu:
>
> https://www.skolelinux.org/portal
/press/press_releases/joint_statement_20040702
> http:/
/wiki.skolelinux.de/Kooperation/Edubuntu
>
> Skolelinux / Debian Edu has got a request from the One
Laptop per Child
> (OLPC) project to ensure that what we does of
translations and code
> should be commited upstream to the source. The OLPC
project is
> currently based on RedHat. Skolelinux also want that
our effort should
> be easily usable for every educational project with
free software that
> helps and enables the pupils create their own future.
It will also
> makes it more easy for people to choose Debian as a
basis system on
> OLPC for the countries that want's that. Then Launcpad
seems to be a
> workaround ...
>
> >
> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/
+spec/student-control-panel-completion
>
> After what I've heard this is a spec of an application
thats already
> developed? The LinEx distro in Extremadura has deployed
a pupil desktop
> control application for teachers on their 80.000
desktop PC's at > 180
> schools. This applications currently works for
workstations. I've not
> heard if it works for thin clients. The applications is
developed by
> LinEx after the specifications from teachers. We had a
demonstration of
> the application at a schools at Extremadura under the
Debian Edu
> gathering there:
>
> http
://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Extremadura2006
>
> So my question. Is the student-control-panel-completion
the same
> application thats already in production in schools at
Extremadura? Is
> it a improvement with additional features, or is it
something else?

I did not know this application.  I just found the other one
on the
Edubuntu menu

> > Everything is supposedly managed within
launchpad.net
> >
> > is this clearer ?
>
> So whats seems to be a clear cut answer, it's probably
not 
So I hope
> you could add some more information.

I appreciate all the efforts of all these projects :

Debian-edu / Skolelinux / Linex are apparently all directely
debian
based, while
Guadalinex / Edubuntu are ubuntu based, with ubuntu being
based on debian
(see http://www.guadalinex.org/modules/news/article.php
?storyid=132)

there is redundancy that could be stimulating, but that is
also
frustrating as we may redo something that already exists.

I wonder how we could help with more collaboration on all
these projects.

Is there also in debian a centralized tool that manage all
the requests ?

Thanks,

Nicolas

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Hi


> there is redundancy that could be stimulating, but that
is also
> frustrating as we may redo something that already
exists.
>
> I wonder how we could help with more collaboration on
all these projects.
>
> Is there also in debian a centralized tool that manage
all the requests ?
Yes there is, the answer might be stupid but the idea behind
it is a big one 
from which we all will get benefits.
The tool is the BTS on bugs.debian.org
Yes currently we are doing things twice or even more times
and I completely 
agree that this is not neccessary.
And I also see that we are all contributing into OpenSource
and that we want 
to offer free software to our users.
Another point which combines us is that we are using Debian.
As you pointed out in a direct way (for instance as a
subproject or a CDD) or 
even as Ubuntu which also syncs from Debian.
So the best way is to always split the work and make sure
that we are talking 
about specific packages and bring them into Debian.

The easy example would look like:

There is an interesting application which is needed. We are
adapting it for 
Debian and debianizing it. Then we upload it to Debian. Then
it is in Debian 
sid (unstable) and after some time it will show up in an
official stable 
release and then it is automatically a part of Debian-Edu .
In the meanwhile Ubuntu can do the sync and then it also
appears there and all 
of us benefit from it.

The point we all have to understand is that the following
statement hurts us 
and is therefore not very helpful.
"Having the application xy in our own repository
(Debian-Edu or Edubuntu) so 
that we have an advantage in comparision to the other
distros ."

The package won't be supported by Debian infrastructure and
we have to 
maintain it completely alone. With that we might succeed for
1, 2, 3, 50 or 
whatever packages but one day we will come to our limit and
then we will 
completely fail and can stop our work :(

So let's join the forces and bring things into Debian. The
same matches for 
translations. If we translate something in Debian it will
also be translated 
for Ubuntu,Edubuntu, Debian-Edu, Linex, ...

And even if we have some points in Debian which we don't
like or which we want 
to improve, for instance wikis or translation tools, then we
have to complain 
about it, find out how we can help by improving it and
improve it and then 
we'll make life easier for the next generation.

Thanks and Greetings
Steffen
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I would like to say (again - sorry) that Skolelinux Tjener
kicks arse as a
central server. You guys have done a fantastic job on it.
On the other hand, Edubuntu has a very nice desktop and LTSP
server, with
better hardware recognition and more modern software (Skole
is still using
OOo1, for example, and can't run the wireless cards on our
laptops)

It would be fantastic for teachers like me, who don't know
much about
systems and just need something that works, if edubuntu
machines could
easily use Tjener, allowing network logins to home
directories. I know
there is a skolelinux howto on this, but it doesn't work
properly.

In my experience, windows computers function better in a
skolelinux
network than edubuntu does, and I think that's just plain
wrong. It
suggests to me that edubuntu is ignoring skolelinux, instead
of working
together.

Edubuntu doesn't have a central server solution. Please work
with the
skolelinux guys instead of competing against them.

Thank you and sorry for the cross-post.

Nigel



> Hi
>
>
>> there is redundancy that could be stimulating, but
that is also
>> frustrating as we may redo something that already
exists.
>>
>> I wonder how we could help with more collaboration
on all these
>> projects.
>>
>> Is there also in debian a centralized tool that
manage all the requests
>> ?
> Yes there is, the answer might be stupid but the idea
behind it is a big
> one
> from which we all will get benefits.
> The tool is the BTS on bugs.debian.org
> Yes currently we are doing things twice or even more
times and I
> completely
> agree that this is not neccessary.
> And I also see that we are all contributing into
OpenSource and that we
> want
> to offer free software to our users.
> Another point which combines us is that we are using
Debian.
> As you pointed out in a direct way (for instance as a
subproject or a CDD)
> or
> even as Ubuntu which also syncs from Debian.
> So the best way is to always split the work and make
sure that we are
> talking
> about specific packages and bring them into Debian.
>
> The easy example would look like:
>
> There is an interesting application which is needed. We
are adapting it
> for
> Debian and debianizing it. Then we upload it to Debian.
Then it is in
> Debian
> sid (unstable) and after some time it will show up in
an official stable
> release and then it is automatically a part of
Debian-Edu .
> In the meanwhile Ubuntu can do the sync and then it
also appears there and
> all
> of us benefit from it.
>
> The point we all have to understand is that the
following statement hurts
> us
> and is therefore not very helpful.
> "Having the application xy in our own repository
(Debian-Edu or Edubuntu)
> so
> that we have an advantage in comparision to the other
distros ."
>
> The package won't be supported by Debian infrastructure
and we have to
> maintain it completely alone. With that we might
succeed for 1, 2, 3, 50
> or
> whatever packages but one day we will come to our limit
and then we will
> completely fail and can stop our work :(
>
> So let's join the forces and bring things into Debian.
The same matches
> for
> translations. If we translate something in Debian it
will also be
> translated
> for Ubuntu,Edubuntu, Debian-Edu, Linex, ...
>
> And even if we have some points in Debian which we
don't like or which we
> want
> to improve, for instance wikis or translation tools,
then we have to
> complain
> about it, find out how we can help by improving it and
improve it and then
> we'll make life easier for the next generation.
>
> Thanks and Greetings
> Steffen
> --
> edubuntu-users mailing list
> edubuntu-userslists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users

>



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