Here is the entire meeting log.
17:06 < quaid> <meeting>
17:06 < quaid> and sometimes we start a few minutes
lae 
17:06 < quaid> s/lae/late/
17:06 * quaid pings some FDSCo folks
17:06 < quaid> stickster_afk, BobJensen
17:07 * EvilBob waves
17:07 < EvilBob> BobJensen
17:09 < quaid>
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Stee
ringCommittee/TaskSc
hedule
17:09 < quaid> as something to work against
17:10 < quaid> ok, I can give the DUG status
17:10 < quaid> I'm holding it up as Publication
Editor, not for any
particular reason other than ...
17:10 < quaid> i) how do we signify the real content
v. Docs/Drafts/?
17:10 < quaid> ii) I want to do a final read through.
17:11 < quaid> we have a problem of content scattered
in many locations
17:11 < quaid> and now we have the Docs/Drafts/ URL
itself linked from
the splash page
17:11 < quaid> which in hindsight was a mistake
17:11 < quaid> we should have done a link to
Docs/DesktopUserGuide and
done a redirect to the draft until publish.
17:12 < quaid> but we need a way to signify a
"version for the latest FC
version"
and "this is for the next FC version"
17:12 < quaid> Docs/ is the former, Docs/Drafts/ is
the latter
17:12 < quaid> so ...
17:12 < quaid> how does it sound to ...
17:12 < quaid> have a big link on
Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide that
links to the published version on Docs/
17:13 < quaid> then let the Drafts/ go back to being a
draft for F*7
17:13 < EvilBob> +1
17:16 < quaid> yeah, hadn't articulated that before,
but it makes sense
now that I write it out
17:17 < vnk_fd> is DUG considered completed?
17:18 < quaid> well, except for my publication edit
17:18 < quaid> we can add to it with FC6 content once
live, though
17:18 < quaid> publication edit is me reading every
page one last time
to normalize markup, wordsmith, etc.
17:19 < quaid> I just set that for Thursday this week
(07 Dec)
17:19 < quaid> if I don't have time before then, I
have some time that
afternoon to work on it.
17:19 < quaid> the meta problem here is that not
enough people can fill
the "Publication Editor" role
17:19 < quaid> partially because the knowledge to do
that role is not
updated :7
17:19 < EvilBob> Don't forget we have to also work ont
he r-n the end of
the week also but they should not take much time
17:20 < quaid> ok, I'm not primary on that but I'll
back you all up
17:20 < quaid> also, some of you all out there might
want to excercise
new XML skills for that
17:20 < quaid> oh, I ran past the first agenda item
17:21 < quaid> any objections or discussion about
folding f-dsco-l into
f-docs-l?
17:21 < vnk_fd> back to the original proposal for a
sec?
17:21 < quaid> vnk_fd: go ahead
17:21 < vnk_fd> do we need perhaps two 'draft' areas,
then
17:21 * quaid puts the 0 item on hold
17:21 < vnk_fd> one for FC7
17:21 < EvilBob> I would like us to wait 6 months
before closing that
list, see if we can make the list useful, if we can't do
that in 6
months fold it up
17:22 < vnk_fd> and the other for incomplete stuff
*FC6)
17:23 < quaid> EvilBob: what do you see happening on
that list in the
meantime?
17:24 < quaid> EvilBob: at least on thing I think is
that I should send
all FDSCo agenda, meeting stuff, etc. to f-docs-l at least
in parallel
17:24 < EvilBob> quaid: Goes along with what I
mentioned earlier about
how we use our meetings and lists
17:24 < quaid> EvilBob: is the concern that we bore
the regular folks
with boring business/
17:24 < quaid> ?
17:24 < quaid> vnk_fd: that is a good question
17:24 < EvilBob> yes
17:25 < quaid> vnk_fd: maybe when we publish, we
should do two things:
17:25 < quaid> 1. Copy to Docs/FooGuide
17:25 < quaid> 2. Copy to Docs/Drafts/7/FooGuide
17:25 < quaid> s/7/6/ in this case
17:26 < quaid> EvilBob: so back to the question then,
what constitutes
boring business?
17:26 < EvilBob> the list is open for those that are
interested we don't
prevent list membership on that list really
17:26 * quaid pays for his opening two agenda items at the
same time by
handling two discussions at the same time.
17:26 < quaid> EvilBob: but what about the obscurity?
17:27 < quaid> that is, I think that most of what is
sent to f-dsco-l is
of interest to f-docs-l
17:27 < EvilBob> quaid: IMO a lot of the tools and
tool chain stuff may
be boring to some
17:27 * quaid is appreciating a chance to knock this idea
about, since
this is the first he is really thinking about it
17:28 < EvilBob> I will let you go back to Item 0, I
need to deal with
family stuff for a few
17:29 < quaid> ok
17:29 < quaid> I'm willing to not decide yet on that
item anyway
17:29 < vnk_fd> ok, then quickly
17:29 < vnk_fd> 1. quaid publishes to Docs/FooGuide
17:30 < vnk_fd> 1. writers do
Docs/Drafts/rel.ver./FooGuide
17:31 < vnk_fd> that one should have been 2.
17:33 < quaid> well, sure, anyone can do most of those
parts
17:33 < quaid> iirc about the ACLs, that is
17:33 < quaid> vnk_fd: sounds fine
17:34 < quaid> so Docs/Drafts == rawhide
17:34 < quaid> Docs/Drafts/rel.ver. == release branch
17:34 < EvilBob> rawhide == development
17:34 < quaid> oh, foo
17:34 < quaid>
17:36 < quaid> are we comfie with rel.ver. == a prime
number?
17:36 < quaid> rather than include "FC"
"FF" "F*"
17:36 < quaid> in the same way we don't have to say
Docs/FedoraDesktopUserGuide
17:37 < quaid> because Fedora is in the name
fedoraproject.org
17:37 < quaid> ?
17:37 < quaid> s/comfie/comfortable/
17:37 * quaid is comfie with that, fwiw
17:37 < vnk_fd> simpler, the better
17:37 < EvilBob> yes
17:37 < EvilBob> less redundancy
17:38 < vnk_fd> that's if you're comfie with 6 as
prime number
17:38 < EvilBob> releases will still be numbered once
it is Fedora
Freebase
17:38 < quaid> um, I meant
17:39 < quaid> s/prime/whole/
17:39 < quaid>
17:39 * quaid is obviously an English Lit major and not a
Math major
17:39 < quaid> ok, so be it
17:40 < vnk_fd> ok
17:43 < EvilBob> OK is item 0 covered?
17:43 < vnk_fd> yes
17:44 -!- mspevack_afk [n=mspevack fedora/mspevack] has quit
["Leaving"]
17:44 < quaid> and item 1
17:44 < EvilBob> quaid: for the record i would like to
paste some of my
ideas from our earlier brainstorm
17:45 < quaid> go ahead
17:45 < quaid> what subject?
17:46 < EvilBob> if FDSCo could use it's mailing list
more the
"business" meeting could be 15-30 minutes and
then we shift gears to
work with everyone brainstorming, one on one colab, groups
working on
training or what ever is needed it would make the FDSCo
meeting less
important because we talk on list, it would also be more
inclusive for
the FDSCo members that are in other time zones would also
make docs in
general more inclusive because we can
17:46 < EvilBob> take what we work on in the
"free time" of the
meetings to the general docs list also
17:47 < EvilBob> Meeting format idea and how it
relates to us having two
mailing lists
17:47 < quaid> ok
17:48 < quaid> to do that people would actually have
to respond and
solve business on list
17:48 * quaid looks at the agenda
17:48 < quaid> I can see stuff that would be best to
discuss on list
17:49 < quaid> but it seems like its worth keeping on
f-docs-l
17:49 < quaid> EvilBob: what constitutes business
then?
17:50 < EvilBob> I have not figured that out yet...
LOL
17:50 < quaid> heh
17:50 < EvilBob> Tools and Tool chain, can be a bit
geeky to
non-programmer types for one
17:50 < quaid> well, i do think more on-list
discussion would save us on
some subjects
17:51 < quaid> hmm
17:51 < quaid> that would beg a separate tools list,
not to push that
content to fdsco list
17:51 < quaid> even then, hmmm
17:51 < EvilBob> I agree, I would think that we start
by pushing to
fdsco-list and then if right we move out to docs-list
17:52 < quaid> but the toolchain is not a steering
committee exclusive
subject
17:52 < EvilBob> some of the development stuff that we
talkabout as
fdsco may not be of interest to our writers
17:52 < quaid> also, one of our goals is the
production of a toolchain,
so we need one location that everyone can get updates about
it from.
17:52 < quaid> it is coincidental that most of the
toolchain folks are
on FDSCo
17:53 < quaid> but not exclusive
17:53 < EvilBob> Yes I agree
17:53 < quaid> tsekine and glezos for example have
contributed to the
discussion, on f-docs-l
17:53 < quaid> patches, etc.
17:53 < EvilBob> open the list up so those that are
interested in teh
development of our tools and tool chain can join
17:53 < quaid> well, I think I'd first want to hear
from the general
list that tools needs a separate discussion area
17:53 < EvilBob> +1
17:54 < EvilBob> would be a "refocusing" of
the fdsco list IMO
17:54 < quaid> well, not really
17:54 < EvilBob> rather than kill that list and start
another
17:55 < quaid> I don't agree with pushing tools to
that list, personally
17:55 < quaid> it's more confusing
17:55 < quaid> my instinct is to fold into one list
and handle it all
there
17:55 < quaid> that the more we spread, the more we
lose
17:55 < EvilBob> as long as most of our contributors
are OK with that I
will be also
17:56 < quaid> can you ask the question on list? just
the general "move
tools or leave here" question, not where.
17:56 * quaid doesn't want to overstay his posting for the
week
17:56 < EvilBob> Sure i will ask tonight
17:57 < EvilBob> Item 1 closed IMO
17:57 < EvilBob> address again next week based on list
input
17:58 < quaid> sure
17:59 < quaid> ok, we've got megacoder and eitch MIA
with a couple of
important projects on them
17:59 < quaid> so I'll send email directly to find out
what their status
us
17:59 * quaid has been updating
http
://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Steeri
ngCommittee/TaskSchedule as we're going along
17:59 < quaid> next we can address from there with
present company is
the relnotes update
17:59 < quaid> EvilBob: anything we need to think
about there?
18:00 < EvilBob> on the subject of open projects, we
have a large number
of items on our taskSchedule that are quite old and should
ether be
handed off or flat ou
t killed
18:01 < EvilBob> in the stalled section
18:01 < quaid> stalled == bad press?
18:01 < EvilBob> Evaluate and integrate RPM Guide into
Building Packages
Guide as an example
18:02 < quaid> well, we can work on that as part of
the working meeting
18:02 < EvilBob> tht item was drafted by ignacio and
he is completely
MIA, what do we do with that draft?
18:03 < EvilBob> he does not answer emails or phone
calls, no response
by postal mail either
18:04 < EvilBob> I was just wondering if we had a
policy on orphaned
drafts/docs/contributions
18:04 < quaid> we don't yet
18:04 < quaid> we could move them to an orphan section
of some kind, but
we don't want them to disappear
18:06 < EvilBob> there is at least one item on there
(stalled section)
that I know I cold out the guys from the unity project to
work on
18:06 * quaid finished his edits to
http://f
edoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/St
eeringCommittee/TaskSchedule
18:06 < EvilBob> s/cold/could
18:06 < quaid> that is, the updates for the day are
done there
18:06 < quaid> one second, let me formally wrap up the
business
18:06 < EvilBob> sure
18:07 < quaid> I want to move the FLOSS docs summit
back to the list for
discussion, John and I have proposed two related
directions, and that's
where it sits
18:07 < quaid> maybe this is all in his and my mind, I
dunno
18:07 < EvilBob> are you editing that page?
18:08 < EvilBob> If so can you please fix my WikiName
on the release
notes item
18:08 < EvilBob> BobJensen
18:09 < quaid> ok
18:10 < quaid> done
18:10 < EvilBob> thanks
18:12 < BobJensen> Where are we with the moin update
and plone
testing/migration?
18:13 < quaid> ok, that was all the agenda items
18:13 < quaid> we can go back to discussing stale
stuff
18:13 < quaid> oh, sorry
18:13 < quaid> you are right, there are those items
18:14 < BobJensen> who are the contacts for those
items and how much do
we pick at the scabs?
18:14 < BobJensen> LOL
18:16 < quaid> ok, on Moin for the docbook and 1.6
stuff
18:16 < quaid> we need someone to help with the Python
in Moin Moin and
most likely be the maintainer
18:16 < quaid> of that code
18:16 < quaid> for us and for Moin Moin
18:17 < quaid> hmm
18:17 < BobJensen> OK so we need a "help
wanted" page on the wiki see if
we can't get a snake charmer
18:17 < quaid> I posted to f-infrastructure-;
18:17 < BobJensen> OK
18:17 < quaid> nneed to do the same to f-websites-l
18:17 < quaid> and maybe ask whoever packages it for
Fedora
18:18 < quaid> ok, I split the tasks out on the task
schedule
18:18 < quaid> the 1.5.6 upgrade is happening already,
see the list for
testing request
18:18 < BobJensen> I am going to put an open request
out on the Fedora
Unity sites for a python developer for some stuff we need
done there,
maybe we can find some one to come over to docs to help
also
18:19 < quaid> cool
18:19 < quaid> I posted to f-websites-l
18:20 < quaid> we'll see if that helps, and I'll try
to find the
packager from FE
18:20 * quaid doesn't know how to do that
18:20 < BobJensen> I can track that down easy enough,
should be on the
owners list
18:21 < BobJensen> When I get the maintainers name I
will pass the
contact info on to you if you don't find it first
18:23 < quaid> ok, thx
18:23 < BobJensen>
http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/owners/owners
.list?root=e
xtras&view=markup
18:24 < BobJensen> It is Thias from FreshRPMs
matthiasrpmforge.net
18:26 < quaid> ah, ok
18:26 < quaid> he probably doesn't want to help with
the Python, but
we'll ask
18:26 < quaid> hmmm
18:26 * quaid ponders filing all this as a bug request
18:27 < BobJensen> BZ is many time the best way to
reach him I am told
18:28 < quaid> ok, I'll try that
18:29 < BobJensen> Jon "daMaestro" Steffan
is the lead packager for Zope
and Plone now, He got a python work out over the last week
on another
project with me
18:30 < BobJensen> s/packager/packager for Extras
18:31 < BobJensen> I had not looked at my Docs email I
now see the email
from paulo about the test
18:34 < BobJensen> quaid: need to take a little break
here and put the
kids to bed, will see you in a few
18:34 < quaid> ok, bug filed
18:34 < quaid> ok
18:35 * quaid works on more stuff
18:42 < cdehaan> Meeting closed or still running?
18:43 -!- cdehaan [n=Codydynamic-addr-88-162.resnet.rochester.edu] has
quit []
18:44 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser195.229.25.134] has joined
#fedora-docs
18:44 < jmbuser> Good morning!
18:44 < quaid> jmbuser: good morning
18:45 < quaid> see, one reason to hang out, jmbuser
eventually wakes up
18:45 < jmbuser> Yawwwwn (tired, not bored)
18:47 < jmbuser> Did I miss anything?
18:52 < quaid> well
18:52 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaandynamic-addr-88-167.resnet.rochester.edu]
has joined #fedora-docs
18:52 < quaid> the business stuff was discussed
18:52 < quaid> cdehaan: we are done with the agenda
and are just in
'working meeting' mode
18:52 < cdehaan> OK
18:54 < jmbuser> Very good
18:56 < jmbuser> mether: The customizing yum section
is developing
nicely.
19:00 < quaid> aye
19:00 < quaid> mether is great for a well organized
brain dump of good
stuff
19:03 < jmbuser> quaid: As is your Docs Projects
Workflow - I see I
already have violated the wiki editing process
19:04 < quaid> uh, oh
19:04 < quaid> jmbuser: what did you do ?
19:05 < quaid> jmbuser: we just made that up an hour
or so ago, so it is
adaptive v. set in stone
19:05 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaandynamic-addr-88-167.resnet.rochester.edu]
has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:06 < jmbuser> quaid:Is this a old process (in which
I plead ignorance
of the law - I want a lawyer) or a new one (better to seek
forgiveness
than ask permission)?
19:06 < jmbuser> quaid: Ok
19:06 * quaid thinks his previous line crossed jmbuser in
the ether
19:06 < quaid> yeah
19:06 < quaid> jmbuser: tell me what you did
differently? I forget ...
19:07 < jmbuser> quaid: No, it was too good to waste
19:08 < jmbuser> I took the Work Flow Ideas, copied it
to my sandbox,
chopped it up and moved it back to the docsproject area as
"ready to
publish".
19:12 < quaid> oh, interesting
19:13 < quaid> I consider that to be different
19:13 < quaid> that is project documentation
19:13 < quaid> which is different from "Fedora
documentation for
end-users"
19:13 < quaid> the latter goes in Docs/ and
Docs/Drafts
19:13 < quaid> the former in DocsProject/
19:14 < quaid> and you are right, what you did is a
100% legit workflow
for i) new ideas and ii) new project content
19:14 < jmbuser> quaid:That's good
19:15 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaandynamic-addr-88-167.resnet.rochester.edu]
has joined #fedora-docs
19:15 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaandynamic-addr-88-167.resnet.rochester.edu]
has left #fedora-docs ["Ex-Chat"]
19:15 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaandynamic-addr-88-167.resnet.rochester.edu]
has joined #fedora-docs
19:20 * vnk_fd must go, battery dying
19:21 -!- vnk_fd [n=vnk202-74-202-139.static.woosh.co.nz] has
quit
["Leaving"]
19:26 -!- megacoder [n=MegaCodec-71-231-222-164.hsd1.or.comcast.net]
has joined #fedora-docs
19:29 < quaid> megacoder: howdy
19:29 < megacoder> who are you ;-?
19:29 < megacoder> hi; long time no C
19:30 < quaid> how are you?
19:31 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaandynamic-addr-88-167.resnet.rochester.edu]
has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:32 < megacoder> Well enough; I've been buried deep
in the bowels of
Boeing from can til can't.
19:32 < megacoder> That's OK, nobody calls a
consultant when things are
rosy.
19:32 < quaid> ye ha!
19:34 < quaid> megacoder: I was actually going to
summon you to find out
if you have made or are going to be able to make progress
on ...
19:34 < megacoder> no, and no. I'm just snowed and
have very little
available time.
19:35 < quaid> ok coolio
19:35 < megacoder> I've missed the goings on and am
skipping supper to
drop by.
19:36 < megacoder> Of course, at 23 stone, that's not
_that_ much of a
sacrifice...
19:37 < quaid> 
19:37 < quaid> well, don't starve much for us
19:38 < quaid> I really should do minutes for these
meetings, but I
often forget
19:38 < megacoder> np, I sometimes fast for hours
19:39 < megacoder> I was gonna try to sit in on
stickster's XML tutorial
on Saturday, for moral support
19:40 < jmbuser> quaid:Yes, please do minutes or post
the irc - have you
ever used irc2html?
19:42 < quaid> nope
19:44 < quaid> jmbuser: i always post the IRC, but it
is nice for others
to do a summary or minutes, but I'm not always that nice
19:44 < jmbuser> quaid: It's a perl script that
"pretty prints" chat
logs and converts it to html - as the name implies - and
the license is
19:45 < jmbuser> quaid:copyrighted, but free use with
attribution
19:48 * quaid just pastes the plain text, since he doesn't
send HTML
email anyway
19:49 < jmbuser> quaid:I volunteer to do meeting
minutes, but it's
better if I was actually able to attend the meeting.
19:49 < quaid> jmbuser:
19:49 < quaid> jmbuser: we're still struggling with
what is going to be
a good time
19:50 < jmbuser> quaid: One of the challenges of a
global community -
time zones and sleep cycles
19:50 < quaid> I'm going to close now and send a final
IRC log, since I
need to put some moppets to bed
19:50 < quaid> jmbuser: word
19:51 < jmbuser> Signing off to go to work
19:51 < quaid> we will probably move to a rotating
schedule of some
kind, so at least we are kind in revolution
19:51 < quaid> </meeting>
--
Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation
Project
Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. |
fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
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