Summary - Broken dependencies in Fedora Extras - 2007-03-03

Jesse Keating wrote:

> On Monday 12 March 2007 12:00:25 Nicolas Mailhot
wrote:
>> An early warning
> 
> Warnings are fine.  Perhaps pup/pirut can list the
packages with no match
> in any configured repo with RED and do some sort of
popup about how these
> packages will not get any updates.  Forcibly removing
the packages without
> user concent is bad.

Just to be clear, when a user issues:

$ yum update
and it says:
...
package foo removed/Obsoleted by fedora-orphans (or
whatever)
...
Is this ok [y/N]:

that doesn't count as user concent?

-- Rex

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On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 12:19:21 -0400, Jesse Keating wrote:

> On Monday 12 March 2007 12:00:25 Nicolas Mailhot
wrote:
> > An early warning
> 
> Warnings are fine.  Perhaps pup/pirut can list the
packages with no match in 
> any configured repo with RED and do some sort of popup
about how these 
> packages will not get any updates.  Forcibly removing
the packages without 
> user concent is bad.

Is it even possible to "forcibly remove a package"
in all cases? What is
when a 3rd party package requires the orphan? There would be
broken deps
in the transaction test, and the upgrade to the
garbage-collector pkg
would fail until the 3rd party repo adapts the orphan and
updates it.

In a similar way, not removing orphans results in brokens
deps, too.

Are mandatory "release notes", which contain a
list of orphans and hints
on how to clean up a system prior to a dist-upgrade, the way
to go?

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On Monday 12 March 2007 12:26:25 Rex Dieter wrote:
> Is this ok [y/N]:
>
> that doesn't count as user concent?

Not when it is buried in the mess of the other hundreds of
packages going from 
Fedora N to Fedora N+1.

Nor is it very obvious in the GUI or UI why a set of
packages are set for 
removal, one would have to chew through yum output or even
potentially debug 
output to see exactly why these packages are getting lumped
into removal.  I 
think our user experience around using yum to update from
one release to the 
next is bad enough without adding in a "feature"
to drop orphaned packages 
like hot potatoes.

-- 
Jesse Keating
Release Engineer: Fedora

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On Monday 12 March 2007 12:50:00 Michael Schwendt wrote:
> Is it even possible to "forcibly remove a
package" in all cases?

No, not in all cases.

> What is 
> when a 3rd party package requires the orphan? There
would be broken deps
> in the transaction test, and the upgrade to the
garbage-collector pkg
> would fail until the 3rd party repo adapts the orphan
and updates it.

But it would fail in a way that is probably not obvious, and
tossing the 
garbage-collector package into the mix forces an issue where
there may not be 
one now, nor any time soon in the future.

> In a similar way, not removing orphans results in
brokens deps, too.

Potentially.  Just like not removing packages that didn't
come from our repos 
could potentially lead to broken deps.

> Are mandatory "release notes", which contain
a list of orphans and hints
> on how to clean up a system prior to a dist-upgrade,
the way to go?

I certainly think a release time wrapup of orphaned packages
is good, as well 
as more documentation surrounding a dist-upgrade be it via
yum or via 
anaconda.

-- 
Jesse Keating
Release Engineer: Fedora

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Le lundi 12 mars 2007 à 17:50 +0100, Michael Schwendt a
écrit :

> Are mandatory "release notes", which contain
a list of orphans and hints
> on how to clean up a system prior to a dist-upgrade,
the way to go?

Nope. A lot of people don't read docs (you, me, everyone)
Release notes
are slightly higher in the food pyramid than click-through
EULAs, but
not much.

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

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