Including Colossus

Colossus is a game written in java that didn't work using
gcj, but does
appear to work with icedtea. (Though I haven't done very
extensive testing
yet.) The program is GPL 2 licensed.
The game is based on the classic Avalon Hill game Titan that
is in the process
of being reprinted by Valley Games.

The name change should avoid the main potential trademark
issue, but Valley
Games might still threaten to sue even if they don't have a
good case.
Some of the artwork is clearly too similar to the original
artwork to use.
(In particular on legion markers, but at least some
alternate colors are
provided with artwork that wasn't in the original game.)
(Valley Games is redoing the artwork, but the original
creators would still
hold copyright on it.)
Also the board design has potential copyright issues as
well. The masterboard
is fairly unique and the interconnections of the various
terrain types may
be copyrightable even if the artwork isn't the same as the
original board.
Also each of the battle boards also has terrain where the
actual locations
of particular terrain types might be copyrightable even if
the artwork is
different.
The data for the maps can be changed and does include some
variants, so it
might be possible to ship the game with only some varient
data and let
people grab the "standard" maps from sourceforge.

I would be willing to try to package the game. (I've done
the CLA
but haven't packaged anything yet and don't have experience
writing spec
files from scratch, though I have mnade minor modifications
to existing
ones.)

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Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> Colossus is a game written in java that didn't work
using gcj, but does
> appear to work with icedtea. (Though I haven't done
very extensive testing
> yet.) The program is GPL 2 licensed.
> The game is based on the classic Avalon Hill game Titan
that is in the process
> of being reprinted by Valley Games.
> 
> The name change should avoid the main potential
trademark issue, but Valley
> Games might still threaten to sue even if they don't
have a good case.
> Some of the artwork is clearly too similar to the
original artwork to use.
> (In particular on legion markers, but at least some
alternate colors are
> provided with artwork that wasn't in the original
game.)
> (Valley Games is redoing the artwork, but the original
creators would still
> hold copyright on it.)
> Also the board design has potential copyright issues as
well. The masterboard
> is fairly unique and the interconnections of the
various terrain types may
> be copyrightable even if the artwork isn't the same as
the original board.
> Also each of the battle boards also has terrain where
the actual locations
> of particular terrain types might be copyrightable even
if the artwork is
> different.
> The data for the maps can be changed and does include
some variants, so it
> might be possible to ship the game with only some
varient data and let
> people grab the "standard" maps from
sourceforge.
> 
> I would be willing to try to package the game. (I've
done the CLA
> but haven't packaged anything yet and don't have
experience writing spec
> files from scratch, though I have mnade minor
modifications to existing
> ones.)
> 

Sounds interesting and sounds like you've done your
homework, so I say go for it.

Regards,

Hans

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On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 20:14:40 +0100,
  Hans de Goede <j.w.r.degoedehhs.nl> wrote:
> Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> >
> >I would be willing to try to package the game.
(I've done the CLA
> >but haven't packaged anything yet and don't have
experience writing spec
> >files from scratch, though I have mnade minor
modifications to existing
> >ones.)
> >
> 
> Sounds interesting and sounds like you've done your
homework, so I say go 
> for it.

OK, I will start doing some ground work on it. I have a link
to some page
with information on being a packager and I'll go over that
to get started.
I'll ask questions as I need further help.

At a first cut, how much do you think I should cut out?
I am thinking the artwork for the original legion markers
markers is a definite
no no, but the rest of the stuff is at worst borderline.

I have some scanned images of the original masterboard and
battleboards I
can show someone when I think I am getting close.

How does one handle subtracting stuff from a distributed tar
ball? I would
think that shipping the source tar ball from the project
would be a problem,
as just having a patch remove the artwork wouldn't work for
avoiding copyright
issues.

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Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 20:14:40 +0100,
>   Hans de Goede <j.w.r.degoedehhs.nl> wrote:
>> Bruno Wolff III wrote:
>>> I would be willing to try to package the game.
(I've done the CLA
>>> but haven't packaged anything yet and don't
have experience writing spec
>>> files from scratch, though I have mnade minor
modifications to existing
>>> ones.)
>>>
>> Sounds interesting and sounds like you've done your
homework, so I say go 
>> for it.
> 
> OK, I will start doing some ground work on it. I have a
link to some page
> with information on being a packager and I'll go over
that to get started.
> I'll ask questions as I need further help.
> 
> At a first cut, how much do you think I should cut
out?
> I am thinking the artwork for the original legion
markers markers is a definite
> no no, but the rest of the stuff is at worst
borderline.
> 
> I have some scanned images of the original masterboard
and battleboards I
> can show someone when I think I am getting close.

Tom 'spot' Callaway (tcallawa -- at -- redhat -- dot -- com)
is the one to talk 
to when it comes to legal questions, those scans will come
in handy then. I 
think it would be best if you first use your common sense to
make something you 
think is clean or whitish-grey and then send it to him.

> How does one handle subtracting stuff from a
distributed tar ball? I would
> think that shipping the source tar ball from the
project would be a problem,
> as just having a patch remove the artwork wouldn't work
for avoiding copyright
> issues.

Correct, in this case what you should do is include a
modified tarbal (with 
things removed, please put replacements in a seperate
tarbal) and put comments 
above the Source0: in the spec explaining howto regenerate
the distributed 
source tarbal from the original sources.

Regards,

Hans


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On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 09:31:21 +0100,
  Hans de Goede <j.w.r.degoedehhs.nl> wrote:
> Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> 
> Tom 'spot' Callaway (tcallawa -- at -- redhat -- dot --
com) is the one to 
> talk to when it comes to legal questions, those scans
will come in handy 
> then. I think it would be best if you first use your
common sense to make 
> something you think is clean or whitish-grey and then
send it to him.

OK, when I am ready for review I'll show him stuff.

> Correct, in this case what you should do is include a
modified tarbal (with 
> things removed, please put replacements in a seperate
tarbal) and put 
> comments above the Source0: in the spec explaining
howto regenerate the 
> distributed source tarbal from the original sources.

I can probably do something simple. One option would be to
reuse the images
from the extra colors that were added by the colossus
developers and were
not in the original game. I can probably have a simple
script do that and
it should work OK if the graphics are repeated if the two
colors contrast.

That should be enough answers for now. Thanks.

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