Echo Cursors - naming spec, description, license, etc.

Hi all,

as we started developing Echo Cursors I began to look around
which cursors are
needed, what are their names and description, what license
we should use, etc.
So I open this thread for discussion about these things.

I have found a draft cursor naming spec [1] at
freedesktop.org. Please consider
it's implementation. Also I went through the
/usr/share/icons/Bluecurve/cursors
folder and made a list of cursors named there [2],
downloaded Bluecurve cursors
png [3] and in the list guessed which names belongs to which
cursor. If you
think I joined cursor with name wrongly feel free to edit
it. I attached it [2]
to EchoCursors wiki [4]. Also I updated EchoCursors wiki to
show current process
and added initial to do list. Feel free to edit / comment
it. About license I
propose cc-by-sa [5].

Thanks,
Martin

References:
[1] http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Standards_2fcursor_2dspec
[2]
http://f
edoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoCursors?action=AttachFile&
amp;do=get&target=bluecurve-list
[3] http://people.redhat.com/duffy/icons/cu
rsors/Bluecurve/Bluecurve-24-1.png
[4] htt
p://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoCursors
[5] http:/
/creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/


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On Thu, 2007-03-22 at 13:39 +0100, Martin Sourada wrote:

> 
> I have found a draft cursor naming spec [1] at
freedesktop.org. Please consider
> it's implementation. 

Note that there is NO support for this draft anywhere in our
desktop to
date. Toolkits are not supporting it, and applications are
not using it.
While I agree that having something like that draft in place
would
improve the cursor theming situation, it is a bit premature
to base
cursor theme work on it at this point.



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Martin Sourada wrote:
> I have found a draft cursor naming spec [1] at
freedesktop.org. Please consider
> it's implementation. Also I went through the
/usr/share/icons/Bluecurve/cursors
> folder and made a list of cursors named there [2],
downloaded Bluecurve cursors
> png [3] and in the list guessed which names belongs to
which cursor. If you
> think I joined cursor with name wrongly feel free to
edit it. I attached it [2]

Don't you think it would be better to put the list as a
table inside the 
wiki page (just like the table with icons) instead of an
attachment? 
This way it would be easier to edit and when we have cursors
they can be 
included in html for visual feed-back.
If you insist to keep the list as an attachment, at least
rename it as 
.txt, maybe this way it will have a correct MIME type and
will be opened 
directly in the browser.

> to EchoCursors wiki [4]. Also I updated EchoCursors
wiki to show current process
> and added initial to do list. Feel free to edit /
comment it. About license I
> propose cc-by-sa [5].

Not sure about the license, we talked about licensing some
time ago and 
it was not clear if CC-BY-SA is compatible with GPL.
And be aware that anything you post on the wiki
automatically fall under 
OPL - http
://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Licenses/OPL

-- 
nicu
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.n
icubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org

my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

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Matthias Clasen napsal(a):
> On Thu, 2007-03-22 at 13:39 +0100, Martin Sourada
wrote:
> 
>> I have found a draft cursor naming spec [1] at
freedesktop.org. Please consider
>> it's implementation. 
> 
> Note that there is NO support for this draft anywhere
in our desktop to
> date. Toolkits are not supporting it, and applications
are not using it.
> While I agree that having something like that draft in
place would
> improve the cursor theming situation, it is a bit
premature to base
> cursor theme work on it at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Fedora-art-list mailing list
> Fedora-art-listredhat.com
> http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list

> 

Well, I think we need something to start with. I think these
are cursors that
are used, and come along with quite good description for
what are they used,
only the names are different - that can be handled either by
changing the names
directly, or making proper symlinks to these. But if
majority is against this I
do not want to force it.

Thanks,
Martin


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Nicu Buculei napsal(a):
> Don't you think it would be better to put the list as a
table inside the
> wiki page (just like the table with icons) instead of
an attachment?
> This way it would be easier to edit and when we have
cursors they can be
> included in html for visual feed-back.
> If you insist to keep the list as an attachment, at
least rename it as
> .txt, maybe this way it will have a correct MIME type
and will be opened
> directly in the browser.
> 
Well, the list is an early draft, and maybe it is
incomplete/incorrect. I
consider it as a source for the table that needs to be done,
as well as the
draft cursor-specs from freedesktop.org. Thanks for the
suggestion about MIME
type. Fixed [1].

> Not sure about the license, we talked about licensing
some time ago and
> it was not clear if CC-BY-SA is compatible with GPL.
> And be aware that anything you post on the wiki
automatically fall under
> OPL - http
://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Licenses/OPL
> 

I also read something about it, though not in fedora case...
As I went through
some currently developed projects I saw that Echo Icon Theme
falls under this
license (though older version), so I though it could be the
same with Echo Cursors.

Thanks,
Martin

References
[1]
http
://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoCursors?action=AttachF
ile&do=get&target=bluecurve-list.txt


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O/H Nicu Buculei έγραψε:
> And be aware that anything you post on the wiki
automatically fall under
> OPL - http
://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Licenses/OPL

Well, you may also license it under some other license or
even put a clear
notice that this is not under the OPL but the other
license.

..right? (never had a special love about these issues...)

-d


-- 
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Jabber ID: glezosjabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
http://dimitris.glezos.co
m/

"He who gives up functionality for ease of use
loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
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Dimitris Glezos wrote:
> O/H Nicu Buculei έγραψε:
>> And be aware that anything you post on the wiki
automatically fall under
>> OPL - http
://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Licenses/OPL
> 
> Well, you may also license it under some other license
or even put a clear
> notice that this is not under the OPL but the other
license.
> 
> ..right? (never had a special love about these
issues...)

Right, of course you can put the work under dual license.
But my understanding (IANAL) is that you can't skip OPL,
which is not 
necessarily bad, OPL is a fine free license.

The right question is: for a cursor theme to be accepted in
the distro, 
what licensing options we have? Bluecurve is licensed as
GPL.

-- 
nicu
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.n
icubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org

my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

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Martin Sourada napsal(a):
> Well, the list is an early draft, and maybe it is
incomplete/incorrect. I
> consider it as a source for the table that needs to be
done, as well as the
> draft cursor-specs from freedesktop.org. Thanks for the
suggestion about MIME
> type. Fixed [1].
> 
...
> Thanks,
> Martin
> 
> References
> [1]
> http
://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoCursors?action=AttachF
ile&do=get&target=bluecurve-list.txt
> 
> 
> 
>
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Hi again,

thanks to ComixCursors theme (licensed GPL) [1] I made a
more complex list of
cursors [2]. There are cursors from freedesktop.org
cursor-spec [3] joined with
appropriate KDE/QT hashes and X11/GNOME/GTK cursors. At the
bottom I listed
cursors that I wasn't able to connect with the ones from
freedesktop.org but are
present in Bluecurve theme. If you find any further
connections, not listed
cursors or mistakes feel free to edit the list, but
currently I prefer making a
new wiki page with a table based on the list, where we would
do all the changes,
decide the default names of the cursors, list needed
symlinks and add
description to all single cursor (if there are more names
for one cursor image)
- and thus allowing us to create a gallery page (where each
cursor will have
only its default name). What do you think?

Thanks,
Martin

References/Links:
[1] http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/
ComixCursors?content=32627
[2]
http://
fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoCursors?action=AttachFile
&do=get&target=cursor-list.txt
[3] http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Standards_2fcursor_2dspec
[4] htt
p://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoCursors


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Hi,

I created new wiki page for the naming spec issue and cursor
description[1].
Please check it out and help to improve and finish it.

About license: you wrote that Bluecurve is licensed under
GPL. I didn't know it.
Maybe it would be the best. Yet I'll list here some
alternatives:
1. cc-by-sa [2] - used by Echo icons, primarily artistic
license, probably could
not be used for other stuff than art
2. GPL [3] - used by Bluecurve, primarily developers
license, but probably
usable for art as well.
3. LGPL [4] - that would allow commercial derivates
4. cc-by-sa for art, GPL for other stuff - dunno if that is
possible
5. Public Domain [5] - that's rather no license at all, I
think
6. Free Art license [6] - recommended by FSF over cc-*,
probably usable only for art
7. some other open license
8. some dual licensing

Thanks,
Martin

References:
[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoCursors/Na
mingSpec
[2] http:/
/creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
[3] http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/GPL
[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Lesser_General_Pu
blic_License
[5] http://en.
wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain
[6] http://artlibre.o
rg/licence/lal/en/


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