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Thread: De-cluttering & improving Fx's interface




De-cluttering & improving Fx's interface
user name
2006-06-27 22:43:00
This post is regarding improving, de-cluttering, and
simplifying the
Firefox UI, and connected with various points, proposals,
ideas, plans,
debates and more with regards to that.  It outlines 10
different area's
of UI improvements largely from what has already been
proposed,
discussed, debated, considered, touched upon.

A little backround on myself, I've been an avid fan,
follower, and
contributor to Firefox related things since it release from
promoting
it to loads of new users in various ways, helping users on
forums,
submitting bugs, commenting on them, testing, providing
feedback and
more.  For the past 18 months I've contributed to
SpreadFirefox in
particular, and the past year I've been on a team called
SFx+ call to
action.  This has 10 core members including the 3 current
admins of SFx
such as Ian Hayward of Glaxstar, Asa Dotzler of Mozilla, and
others.
The team have been communicating regularly on a site where
all plans
have been drawn up in a book formate for a new better
SpreadFirefox
aimed at really delivery grass roots community marketing and
projects.
This has involved research into usability in parts, and in
one
particular project a fair deal on my part researching
browser habits,
needs, impressions of many novice users, there uses,
browsing style,
expectations, interpretations, understanding, and also
liasing with
addon developers on usability related issues.

Firefox is intended to be a simple, light weight, easy on
the eyes,
straightforward, un cluttered, easy to grasp, understand,
use browser.
Its intended to suite the majority of internet users with
that in mind,
bearing in mind the majority of internet users are novice,
and use few
un-essential features before them, even as far as the simple
forwards
button, as research by Google I believe has shown.

However, Firefox now with a total of 5 toolbars inc;
file/edit,
navigation, Tabs, bookmarks, Statusbar and more, has the
most busy,
cluttered interface compared with other top browsers such as
IE6, IE7,
Opera and others.  This is not something many will accept
easily, but
the fact is, Firefox has the most toolbars, most space
wasted in the
UI, the most non essential items and information shown, and
least
website shown despite claiming that to be the most important
thing,
compared with other browsers.  This is despite claiming
those browsers
to be more advanced, hard to use, and Firefox the simpler,
easier,
basic browser browser.  It's not something that convinces
new users
that Firefox really is a simpler browser for novice users,
and its not
something I for one, want to see continue.  Opera has long
taken brave
decisions and been creative with the interface trying to
minimise
clutter, and maximise website and essential
buttons/information, and
the fact of the matter is, it does show less toolbars,
buttons, and
more website.  IE7 in particular has shown it is willing to
be very
creative with the interface in terms of what the average
user whom is
novice, really does use, really does need, and really does
need to have
in there view of the browser and web.  This creativity with
simplifying
the browser interface sadly seems to be at a vastly slower,
and
unwilling pace with Firefox, largely due to wider openness
on debating
changes, and there far more likelyhood of at least a few
disagreeing,
and emphasising cons, and that sadly being taken as enough
to call it
off.  This is despite the fact theres always going to be
cons, its
about weighing them against the pro's for the majority of
web users,
minimising them, and taking brave decisions to implement
based on
maximising the benefits for the majority of users, making it
worthwhile
and beneficial overall.

I've given some careful thought to some of the comment on a
few of the
points.  I've done even more research, read most previous
debates on
the issues if I had already missed a couple.  Its reformed
my view a
little on a couple of points, but however, not to any huge
degree.
This reason being is why, and I'm sorry for my brutal
honesty, is that
I still feel very good proposals were put forwards for
de-cluttering
the interface on the Mozilla wiki;
http://wiki.mozilla.org/FX2_Visual_Update/User_In
terface_Design, and in
other places, and were too easily knocked back due to one or
two cons
being exaggerated.  There's cons in nearly everything thats
done, what
its about is maximising the benefits, minimising the cons,
and weighing
them up.  For the most part, virtually all points in the
original
proposals were pretty much spot on with minor changes, and
the benefits
far outway the cons.  This has been the point all along. 
Theres some
cons to the addition of a search engine manager though
small, the fact
is, if every single thing that carried cons had the cons
outlined and
exaggerated countless of times, and therefore didnt go
ahead, we'd
never get anywhere, and thats what I see as happening with
many of the
simplifying of the Firefox interface initiatives.

When talking about improving Firefox, and the browsing
experience, I
talk about doing so for the majority of internet users whom
are novice.
 This is the same purpose Mozilla carries and many seem to
all to
easily forget, with even some Mozilla suite debates almost
returning to
lines of, keep this because it can do this, and have this
because it
can do this, giving little consideraion to the majority of
internet
users whom are novice, that do not now use many what some
consider to
be basic things like the forward button, bookmarks, the
status bar, and
many other things some find it hard to believe most users
simply do not
use.

There as said, are cons to all kinds of things, whats
important is
implementing based on benefits for the majority verses cons
for the
minority.  The initiatives initially proposed at the said
mozilla wiki
page and elsewhere, are therefore in consdiering these
points, very
positive, logical steps to improve and simplify the
interface, the the
MAJORITY of internet users whom are NOVICE, and do not for
the most
part/at all, use even simple functions like forwards,
bookmarks,
statusbar and more.  The PROS far far outway the CONS, and
most if not
all of the cons raised in previous debates, really would not
negatively
effect the majority of users in any case, so they are simple
very small
cons in the grand wider picture of huge benefits in terms of
simplifying the browser for the majority.  This when
properly
considering in terms of suiting and benefiting the majority,
is the
most important, largest benefit, by far, leaving many small
cons effect
most little to not at all, and alltogether very negligible.

I'm going to go over most of the points for each area, and
try to give
some reply, and points in reply to some comments (some very
valid).
It's already been slightly painful continuously commenting
and going
over things, especially where things are un-necessarily
disputed, even
more so then from previous debates on these matters.  I'd
appreciate it
if some space could be given to the points being made
(especially after
considering all comments) and for people to not just
overthrow with
slightly statesmen like, no your wrong, I'm right, the
topics dead.
Thats just not productive, I'm fighting for a simpler
interface for the
majority of internet users here, dont shoot me down,
especially when
considering many of the points I raise are based on the
proposals made
here by a staff member on the Mozilla wiki;
http://wiki.mozilla.org/FX2_Visual_Update/User_In
terface_Design

1. Statusbar hidden by default
Most users do not use the status bar.  Again, if your
dispute this,
please dont further comment, its really not helpful.  Its
widely
accepted that the average mum, grandma, or kid does not look
at the
status bar, does not inspect link urls, check them, look at
most other
things held here.  I refer to Gervase Markhams comments on
the matter
from a previous debate here;
http://groups.google.com/group/m
ozilla.dev.apps.firefox/browse_frm/thread/6947a05fed1e088c/7
3c66a86dd3cf11d?tvc=1&hl=en#73c66a86dd3cf11d

"The status bar display of URLs is not going to be a
significant tool
in
protecting users from phishing. 99.9% of users don't look
at it, and of
those that do, most probably don't carefully parse the URL
(as would be
necessary for a look-alike phishing URL)."

This is directly linked with the need for the status bar
being on by
default for all users, when only a minority actually use it,
meaning
its un-necessary clutter for the majority.  Firefox is
intended to
suite the majority of web users, of whom are novice, and of
whom do not
for the most part use the statusbar, benefit from it.  So,
its an
overwhelming valid point and case, as to not having the
status bar on
by default based on these fundamental points.   Suite the
majority
maximising the best for the most, leaving the minority who
wish for
another way to be able to change as they wish.  If really
deemed
necessary, then like Opera, upon hovering over a link fo a
certain
amount of time (perhaps make it longer than with Opera) show
a tooltip
with the link url so the user can see it in the same area
and its more
logical, plus whether it will open in a new tab/window or
current one.
As for page resizing, I see this as per phishing where I
agree with
Gervase Markham, its somewhat seperate, and isnt as yet as
implemented
as best as possible.  It should again be treated seperately.
 Opera's
page button and toolbar at the top of the window.  This
should deal
with all page related matters such as zooming, dealing with
images,
searching and any more necessary.  A Page button linking to
this
toolbar is needed in the dropdown in view, or in the UI
similar to
where Opera places it (thus more obvious and intuitive to
users).  This
then sections this area quite nicely for the user to grasp
and use
(know where to find things like this > in the relevent
section not
several)and doesnt foce one or all of its features, which
shouldnt be
the case as many choose not to use one, or all of the
functions.

2. Go/Stop/Reload button

 After careful consideration of many points in debates all
over the
place, I see the most valid point being with the Opera
implementation
of joining Stop/Reload, because allbeit very rare, and it
really is, a
user could mean to stop but get reload.  I still however
think that
realistically as someone that uses the Stop/Reload button
for Firefox,
that its such a rare scenario especially for the average
user.  These
buttons in any case are not used much by most users, and in
any case,
users accidentally hit some buttons, menial things like this
that are
rare, are also quickly resolveable by repeating the process
in seconds,
which regardless, users often do no matter the
implementation.  With
stop and reload seperate, it requires more effort and mouse
work, thus
many click the stop meaning to hit reload anyway due to
this, infact in
my experience this infact happens more often compared with
if they were
joined.  I do think a joint Go/Stop/Reload button therefore
would work
out best all round, and especially for the majority of users
whom for
the most part dont use these loading functions, largely
because theres
so many confusing buttons for such simple things.  Again,
its a case of
the benefits far out weighing the cons.

One very good simple intuitive way to implement the favoured
Go/Reload
button like in IE7, which also solves the minor cons of a
changing
name, would be to just have a universal loading button for
both these
actions called "Load"   This is far more
straighforward, more people
understand Load better than reload or go in any case.  With
"Go" well
where does it go the user says, is it connected with the
"Go" in the
file edit menu and my history?  When a novice user does
reload (not
often) its often d to a page not actually loading in the
first place,
so the term "Reload" when it never really loaded
in the first place, is
also slightly confusing.  These are are more likely mis
interpretations
and confusions caused as of now, and in the longterm.  One
universal
Load button for loading, intuitively caled
"Load" is far more
understandable, logical, easy to grasp, use, and takes out a
lot of
un-necessary clutter and complexity compared with present. 
As per
paragraph  one above on this, I also still feel
"Stop" should be
encorporated here, purely because it really is an all in one
load
button then, the only load related button a user need worry
about, (and
arguably should be the load button for the search bar when
that fields
selected.  Again for the same reaosns that the benefits of
an all in
one button meanding no other buttons of clutter and
complexity there,
and only one loading button needed to look  at and use. 
Regardless the
Go/Reload or rather "Load" button should be
where the Go button is at
present (as per IE7) with the Stop button encorporated too,
or to the
right of  "Load" again as per IE7.

3. Bookmarks Toolbar

>From the Mozilla community wiki entry for Places:
http://wiki
.mozilla.org/Places#Background

"Studies from the late 1990s show that while
revisitations of pages
previously seen counted for roughly 39% of all page
navigations (see
Google Scholar), Bookmarks and History usage was low (1-3%),
despite
the fact that roughly 20% of those revisitations were to
pages seen >
10 URLs ago (and thus outside the usefulness range of the
Back button
or menu)."

With the above considered and if anything it is likely due
to trends
continuing, more emphasis on searching the improving search
engines to
find sites users want, that even less than the proposed %'s
use
bookmarks.  However, it is safe to say that users using
bookmarks are a
minority, and those not using bookmarks much or at all are
in a
majority.  Firefox is intended to suite the majority of
internet users
of whom are novice with a simple, easy to use interface.  Of
the
minority whom to any great degree use Bookmarks, of this
figure, how
many use the actual bookmarks toolbar, this minority figure
then
shrinks further still.

The bookmarks toolbar is not shown by default in IE6, IE7,
Opera and
others, Bookmarks are used by a minority, and that minority
even then
benefit little from an entire space using toolbar meaning
bookmarks are
very public in the UI, and merely just pressable with one
less click.
This is a menial benefit for the majority whom use
bookmarks, but
un-necessary clutter, less website, more buttons,
complexity, and
things to worry about in the interface for the majority.

It is toally within reason then, and logical then if Firefox
really
does intend to suite the majority with the simplest
interface and
browser, that the Bookmarks toolbar should not be shown by
default to
ALL users, of whom a majority dont use it or benefit from
it, and a
minority benefit little.  It is not an essential item, it is
not used
by the majority, do not force it upon users un-necessarily
causing a
more cluttered, space using, complicated interface, and
provide choice
to the minority whom wish to change or continue using
something the
majority do not.

This is a key point moving forwards with Firefox.  This
needs to be
accepted, the majority of users need to be put first
especially as
thats what Firefox claims to do and wants to continue
convincing, even
prooving to all it does.  Once this is accepted, and it
really does
need to be based on facts of usage of this non essential
item
cluttering the UI for a majority, what needs to be looked at
within
improving bookmarks, is other things that do not involve
forcing them
un-necessarily upon a majority that does not use them.  For
one, theres
little benefit to a bookmarks toolbar in any case at all if
not used by
the majority even if on by default, if its a vast minority
that really
use and benefit from it, then its perfectly valid bookmarks
should be
catered for in a different, better way.  The toolbar if it
did remain
should exist on the top level file edit toolbar out of the
way of
clicking on essential items like tabs and navigation
buttons, and using
interface space better, and minimizing clutter.  However,
the file/edit
toolbar is too used by a minority, and this as part of
simplifying the
interface also needs looking at.

IE7 and Opera have both done this by not having the boomarks
toolbar
shown by default.  IE7 has 1 small subtle button for adding
bookmarks,
1 for quickly viewing, managing, reviewing them (aswell as
feeds and
history) which causes no clutter, toolbars, or is any waste
of space in
the permanent browsing interface.  This is a very good
implementation
that Mozilla need to look at learning from, taking the good
from, and
even implementing even simpler and better, in terms of quick
access
with in the same UI to Bookmarks, History and Feeds in one
neat place
that does not clutter the permanent UI.  Opera shows home,
bookmarks,
and a top 10 most visited when the address bar is active,
which too is
a very good implementation, however IE7 seems to implement
better in
this area, neatly grouping in an intuitive way without
forcing
un-necessary clutter or other window on all users.

4. Tools > Add-ons
Should show and cater for all 4 types of add-ons, as per
users see at
the add-ons site itself, the 2 remaining addons being;
Web Plugins, and Search Engines.  Otherwise it contradicts
and confuses
as to what are addons, users dont know where to manage some,
where not
to for others, rather than being able to fully manage all
addons as
expected in the Addons Manager.

5. Options > General > Feed Handler
Not something the majority of internet users currently or
need to worry
about using, feed handling is still very new, feed handlers
is
something the majority of users do not know about, and for
the ones who
do, most at best only understand Firefox handling them. 
Using a
seperate application applies to a minority, thus is clutter
and not
warranted to be in the very prominent General section in
Options meant
for very basic, common, general options, but instead more
suited to the
"Content" section & Places.

6. Tools Menu > Javascript console, Dom Inspector, and
Page info
Not something the majority of internet users currently, or
need to
worry about, thus is un-necessary clutter in this most
commonly used
dropdown menu for users for necessary, regular, useful
functions. Need
to look at ways to hide, or cater for elsewhere in the
browser,
less prominently and putting off users with clutter and
things they
dont know what they are, or need to.

7. Tabs
Tools > Options > Tabs "Open links that would
open new windows in:" is
a confusing and misleading desciption for dealing with
pages.  This
description is not obvious, and will even become obsolete as
virtually
all browser inc; IE use Tabs by default for pages, not
windows.  So
they are not as far as the user is concerned links that
would open new
windows really.  This should be more appropriately titled
something
like "Open new web page links in". "Hide
the tab bar when only one web
site is open" is largely most
beneficial if a "open new Tab" button is catered
for on the tab bar
obviously to the user as the whole bar for tab related
items, much like
in IE7.  This new tab button on the tab bar, much in the
same way as
IE7 right of the current tab, is infact an important,
logical and
fundamental to an easy to understand/use tab browser.
Additional basic
tab options like Opening order, and the tab close
button should be catered for here also, and there is plently
of room
for these basic tab handling options.
For large amounts of tabs, Scrollable tabs are far better in
terms of
interface, space usage, understanding logically the order of
tabs for
users, and more. Tabs being default for browsing and rightly
so,
improvements need to be made in this area.  Users now expect
tabs, and
not a confusing mixture of tabs and windows.  Firefox has
far too many
uses of windows for internal dialogue boxes, options and
more, plus
still pages, links, pop ups, and more.  Opera and IE7 are
far ahead in
terms of logically using tabs as the overally way for
dealing with
pages as a whole, extremely rarely confusing the user with a
mixture of
both, and windows popping up.  This needs to be true of
Firefox,
configured as such in options relative to this, and tweaked
as such,
for the same seamless, logical, space/memory savings to be
true of
Firefox, as per with other browsers. Tab options found in
"Advanced"
should appear in the Tab section.  They are not overly
advanced
options, and it confused the user, makes it more difficult
to find
options, and get an overall idea of options for an area such
as tabs,
by seperating in this way.  Tabs section is very bare and
has room for
these options.  If needs be an "Advanced" button
can be provided in the
Tabs section where they'd expect to find and change ALL
options
relating to tabs.  This can also be said for the other
sections within
advanced, an "Advanced" button could be provided
for many/all of the
sections, in there home section, such as General.

8. Back & Forwards joint history

Research shows the forward button is increasingly not used
by the
majority of users, and most cant quite grasp when an item is
in
forwards versus back causing confusion and a lack of use. 
IE7's joint
list of back/forward pages in a dropdown is a vast
improvement, showing
recently viewed pages in a logical format of forward versus
back, the
user can understand, and use easily all in one, without much
or any
need for thought/effort.  This like most of the points
raised in the
post is being looked at.  Currently it is available as an
extension;
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t
=389946&highlight=
 which is quite nicely implemented.  Improvements to it
exist not
bundling the back, forwards, and recent history dropdown
list as on
item, enabling users to rid of any one of them, move them
around etc,
as per consistent with the UI customisation.  Users should
also be able
to choose just the dropdown menu and be able to move it
where they
like, meaning no requirement for an individual back or
forwards.  The
back and forward buttons should remain the same size as
other buttons.
The recent history or rather joint back/forwards dropdown
should not be
where the forward dropdown currently is, as users will think
they have
lost the back dropdown list, and the forwards one just
remains, as if
the forwards dropdown was there before, surely thats what is
still
there.  It should be in between the back and forwards button
not
suggesting its a dropdown only for the forwards button but
for both
forward & back.

9. Downloads
"Save to Disk" for opening/download a file could
be better named for
user understanding.  Many novice users do not actually know
what "Disk"
really means, and some even presume a CD, which is in there
world more
referred to as Disk, then the Hard Disk.
"Save to Desktop" is clearer to the user, just
right of this there
should be a "Other" link/button so a user does
have the choice to (even
if once in a blue moon) to save a file elsewhere on the
computer.  This
improves clearness, understanding, and functionality as many
users whom
usually download to the desktop, still occasionally wish to
save a file
elsewhere, but are not given this option without messing
around with
the file afterwards, or going into options at least twice,
both of
which un-necessary tasks.  This small addition means this is
greatly
improved, its clearer where files will be saved to, and
users can
occasionally save elsewhere when need be.
As for the download folder option in Options, this can be
alltogether
removed as something the user need not worry about, as they
can always
choose where to save a file within the download dialogue box
with
little to no con to this.  With one click of a button within
this
window, a user can open, save to desktop, or elsewhere on
the computer.

10. Profile Manager

Long been said not to appear in the start menu folder for
Firefox, but
long now been a cause for confusion, and more work by users
to
understand, remedy, use, change options relating to
profiles.

Thunderbird lists the Profile Manager, Firefox should too. 
Although
needed slightly less often, it still is a common thing
novice users
need quick easy access to, regarding bookmarks, personal
date,
troubleshooting and more.  Forcing users to use the command
line for
such a basic thing as they're browsing profile which can
resolve many
issues, queries and more, is un-necessarily, and causes more
harm and
confusion than good.  Theres no reason larger then this to
keep it out,
it only makes things more complex and scary to users whom
want to start
new profiles for various reasons such as troubleshooting,
something
going wrong with theyre Firefox, backing up theyre profile
and more.
Its not an advanced thing to be hidden from users in this
way, and only
having it accessed outside of any UI and only in the command
line makes
it seem it is, and something very advanced, scary.

Summary

All these points, cases, proposals, outlines of factors have
been in
consideration of much information on the web, mozilla wiki,
newsgroups,
google groups debates on proposals on the UI, and more. 
I've taken
into account several points made in previous debates, and
several
comments made on the previous topic on this area.  I see the
above 10
as the best, most simple, intuitive, clutter free,
efficient, easy
interface for the majority of users, maximising website,
minimising
browser, as per IE7, Opera and others are well ahead in
sadly, despite
Firefox claiming to be a simple, straight forward, light
weight easy to
use browser.  That needs to come first, as part of having a
simple,
straight forward browser, putting the majority of users
first based on
facts, research, information, suggestions on the part of
staff, those
in the community, common sense, comparing to other browsers,
software,
and I see as a good common ground for de-cluttering and
simplifying the
Firefox interface.

I sincerely hope therefore based on everything that it will
not recieve
negative un constructive comments based on persons
disagreeing and
exaggerating cons, because all has been considered, and its
about
having the simplest, most effieicent easy browser for the
majority, you
cant suite 100%.  So if you disagree with some points, hey
fine but
dont claim that to be not only your preference but the
preference of
many.  Some of the points may not even be to my preference
as over the
years I've become a slightly more advanced browser user,
but its about
suiting the majority, of which are novice, not individuals,
theyre
individual preferences and stating that for all users.  So
lets please
work towards the simplest, most intuitive, un cluttered with
the most
toolbars and buttons interface browser, and not showing
information
only the minority use whilst not then suiting the majority,
whom
Firefox is supposed to put first and make browsing easy for.
 Thats my
passion, thats what many other browsers sadly are succeeding
in far
more than Firefox despite it supposed to be the most light
weight, un
cluttered, easy to use browser, thats make that true again. 
Many
thanks.

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De-cluttering & improving Fx's interface
user name
2006-06-28 01:53:19
BryanSmiley78gmail.com wrote:
> This post is regarding improving, de-cluttering, and
simplifying the
> Firefox UI,

Brian,

Improving the Firefox UI is a laudable goal, and we share it
with you. 
We too want to make Firefox better for the average user,
even when we 
disagree about what that means.

Although I understand that you're passionate about these
issues, I think 
your posts would be more productive if you presented them
differently in 
the following ways:

1. Start a separate thread on each issue.  It's difficult
to follow and 
participate in a thread containing many distinct
suggestions, even if 
they all have a similar broad goal.

2. Be succinct.  Folks here are busy, and the more we have
to read, the 
harder it is for us to read and respond to it.

3. For issues already raised, discussed, and decided upon,
only raise 
the issue again if there are significant new facts that
would reasonably 
require reconsideration of the decision.  Revisiting
decisions has 
significant opportunity cost, and it's not always better
than letting 
them rest (at least until the next release and fresh
insight/data).

-myk
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De-cluttering & improving Fx's interface
user name
2006-06-29 19:05:26
BryanSmiley78gmail.com wrote:
> 9. Downloads
> "Save to Disk" for opening/download a file
could be better named for
> user understanding.  Many novice users do not actually
know what "Disk"
> really means, and some even presume a CD, which is in
there world more
> referred to as Disk, then the Hard Disk.

This REALLY is a bug. Even my fairly-tech-savvy wife
doesn't get this: 
"But I don't want to save it on a disk."

To most users, "disk" means something than can
be easily inserted and 
removed from the computer. Most likely, a floppy disk (a CD
is a CD).

This string really should be combined with the chosen folder
in the 
download options. For most, it would say "Save to
Desktop." For those 
who have chosen a custom folder it might say "Save to
My Downloaded 
Files." For those who chose "Ask me where to
save every file" it should 
say "Save to..." since it will bring up more
options.

Greg
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