UI for configuring plugin

Up until now my little plugin has been configured by editing
GConf
values through gconf-edit of gconftool directly. Not exactly
userfriendly.

I'd like to add a GUI for configuration that's accessible
from within
epiphany, but I'm not really sure where to place it. A tab
in the
Preferences, or maybe an added menu item somewhere (Tools
menu, or under
Edit)? Both have draw-backs...

Is there some guidance written down on how a plugin should
provide a UI
for configuration?

/M

-- 
Magnus Therning                    (OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4)
magnustherning.org
http://therning.org/magnus


Software is not manufactured, it is something you write and
publish.
Keep Europe free from software patents, we do not want
censorship
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Hi Magnus,

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006, Magnus Therning wrote:

> I'd like to add a GUI for configuration that's
accessible from within 
> epiphany, but I'm not really sure where to place it. A
tab in the 
> Preferences, or maybe an added menu item somewhere
(Tools menu, or 
> under Edit)? Both have draw-backs...

Since Epilicious is primarily bookmark-related, why not put
a menu item 
for it in the Bookmarks menu? That still shouldn't prevent
the actual 
UI being implemented as a tab in, for instance, the Personal
Info 
editor. (I must add that I don't know whether the
extensions API offers 
a method to do this.)

> Is there some guidance written down on how a plugin
should provide a 
> UI for configuration?

Not that I'm aware of. But try to be consistent with the
HIG and the 
rest of the Epiphany UI and you'll be fine 

By the way, have you considered committing Epilicious to 
epiphany-extensions cvs? We can leave it disabled by default
for as 
long as it hasn't reached 1.0, but it might give your
extension a bit 
wider audience!

regards,

-- 
Reinout van Schouwen	   ***	student of Artifical
Intelligence
email: reinoutcs.vu.nl    ***	mobile phone:
+31-6-44360778
www.vanschouwen.info       ***	help mee met GNOME vertalen:
nl.gnome.org
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Hi,

Le samedi 22 avril 2006 à 21:40 +0100, Magnus Therning a
écrit :
> Up until now my little plugin has been configured by
editing GConf
> values through gconf-edit of gconftool directly. Not
exactly
> userfriendly.
> 
> I'd like to add a GUI for configuration that's
accessible from within
> epiphany, but I'm not really sure where to place it. A
tab in the
> Preferences, or maybe an added menu item somewhere
(Tools menu, or under
> Edit)? Both have draw-backs...
> 
> Is there some guidance written down on how a plugin
should provide a UI
> for configuration?

There's no guide yet, no.
There was one extension that had some prefs UI, which it
added to the
Tools menu, but I didn't like that too much and we removed
it again. I
think a whole menu item for just a few settings bloats the
menu
unnecessarily...
A tab in the main prefs might work better, but that'll need
some changes
in epiphany (the prefs dialogue isn't accessible to
extensions right
now, and they'll need a way to merge their UI when it's
opened).

What do other gnome applications do with extensions/plugins
prefs UI
(gedit, evolution[?], what else is there?) do?

Regards,
	Christian

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Christian Persch wrote:
> What do other gnome applications do with
extensions/plugins prefs UI
> (gedit, evolution[?], what else is there?) do?

gedit has a "configuration" button in the plugin
list dialog, which 
calls plugin::configure if it is defined.
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On Sun, Apr 23, 2006 at 12:12:43AM +0200, Reinout van
Schouwen wrote:
>
>Hi Magnus,
>
>On Sat, 22 Apr 2006, Magnus Therning wrote:
>
>>I'd like to add a GUI for configuration that's
accessible from within
>>epiphany, but I'm not really sure where to place
it. A tab in the
>>Preferences, or maybe an added menu item somewhere
(Tools menu, or
>>under Edit)? Both have draw-backs...
>
>Since Epilicious is primarily bookmark-related, why not
put a menu item
>for it in the Bookmarks menu? That still shouldn't
prevent the actual
>UI being implemented as a tab in, for instance, the
Personal Info
>editor. (I must add that I don't know whether the
extensions API offers
>a method to do this.)

So, you're arguing for a separate menu item for configuring
Epilicious,
and plaing it in the Bookmarks menu. That will probably be
what I do,
since it's a good idea, at least as good as it gets at the
moment.

For the long run I don't think it's the right thing.

>>Is there some guidance written down on how a plugin
should provide a UI for 
>>configuration?
>
>Not that I'm aware of. But try to be consistent with
the HIG and the
>rest of the Epiphany UI and you'll be fine 

I'll try my best 

>By the way, have you considered committing Epilicious to
>epiphany-extensions cvs? We can leave it disabled by
default for as
>long as it hasn't reached 1.0, but it might give your
extension a bit
>wider audience!

Not a bad idea. How do I go about it?

/M

-- 
Magnus Therning                    (OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4)
magnustherning.org
http://therning.org/magnus


Software is not manufactured, it is something you write and
publish.
Keep Europe free from software patents, we do not want
censorship
by patent law on written works.

If our ideas of intellectual property are wrong, we must
change them,
improve them and return them to their original purpose. When
intellectual property rules diminish the supply of new
ideas, they
steal from all of us.
     -- Andrew Brown, November 19, 2005, The Guardian
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Hi Magnus,

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006, Magnus Therning wrote:

> So, you're arguing for a separate menu item for
configuring 
> Epilicious, and placing it in the Bookmarks menu. That
will probably 
> be what I do, since it's a good idea, at least as good
as it gets at 
> the moment.
>
> For the long run I don't think it's the right thing.

Then what would be "the right thing" to do, and
why isn't it possible 
right now?

>> Not that I'm aware of. But try to be consistent
with the HIG and the 
>> rest of the Epiphany UI and you'll be fine 
>
> I'll try my best 

I just had an idea; maybe you don't even need to write an
UI. One exists 
already: http://www.nongn
u.org/gnomolicious/. Of course, since this is 
not an official GNOME applet, we can't depend on it, but it
might be 
possible to make it so that Gnomolicious/Epilicious
configuration is 
identical from the user's point of view. The prefs could be
stored in 
the same place, so that it will Just Work.

> Not a bad idea. How do I go about it?

The proper way would probably be to create a patch against 
epiphany-extensions and ask on irc for a code review. If you
have a 
GNOME cvs account and it's accepted, you can commit it
yourself, 
otherwise you ask one of the maintainers to do it for you.

regards,

-- 
Reinout van Schouwen	   ***	student of Artifical
Intelligence
email: reinoutcs.vu.nl    ***	mobile phone:
+31-6-44360778
www.vanschouwen.info       ***	help mee met GNOME vertalen:
nl.gnome.org
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On Sun, Apr 23, 2006 at 02:39:28PM +0200, Reinout van
Schouwen wrote:
>
>Hi Magnus,
>
>On Sun, 23 Apr 2006, Magnus Therning wrote:
>
>>So, you're arguing for a separate menu item for
configuring Epilicious, and 
>>placing it in the Bookmarks menu. That will probably
be what I do, since it's 
>>a good idea, at least as good as it gets at the
moment.
>>
>>For the long run I don't think it's the right
thing.
>
>Then what would be "the right thing" to do,
and why isn't it possible
>right now?

I personally think it'd be confusing to have configuration
of extensions
separate from other configuration.

AFAICS there are 3 ways to do it:

 1. Add a tab on the preferences for configuring the
extension.
 2. Move control of extensions to the preferences (I think
that's a
    better place than a separate menu like it is at the
moment anyway).
    Then configuration can be dealt with like in gedit.
 3. Add a menu item for configuring the extension. The
placement is a
    question then. Should a bookmarks-related extension have
its menu
    item in the Bookmarks menu, in the Edit menu (where
Preferences
    is), or in the Extensions menu?

Which one is least surprising/confusing for users?

I think 1 and 2 are equally good (IANA UI person though).
However,
the first isn't possible at the moment (code is missing)
and 2 needs a
change to the UI for handling extensions. 3 is possible at
the moment,
but no matter where the configuration item is placed it'll
surprise/confuse some users.

These are just my gut feelings though, and I'd be very
happy if someone
would simply come in and say "This is how we handle it
in Epiphany!".


>>>Not that I'm aware of. But try to be consistent
with the HIG and the
>>>rest of the Epiphany UI and you'll be fine 
>>
>>I'll try my best 
>
>I just had an idea; maybe you don't even need to write
an UI. One
>exists already: http://www.nongn
u.org/gnomolicious/. Of course, since
>this is not an official GNOME applet, we can't depend
on it, but it
>might be possible to make it so that
Gnomolicious/Epilicious
>configuration is identical from the user's point of
view. The prefs
>could be stored in the same place, so that it will Just
Work.

Not a bad idea to share configuration placement (i.e. share
the path in
GConf). However, sharing the UI will be difficult. Not only
due to the
dependency it'd introduce but also because epilicoius will
need more
configuration than gnomolicious (I'm about to merge a patch
that makes
the Share topic configurable).

/M

-- 
Magnus Therning                    (OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4)
magnustherning.org
http://therning.org/magnus


Software is not manufactured, it is something you write and
publish.
Keep Europe free from software patents, we do not want
censorship
by patent law on written works.

If you can explain how you do something, then you're very
very bad at
it.
     -- John Hopfield
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This morning, Magnus Therning wrote:

[...]

>>By the way, have you considered committing
Epilicious to
>>epiphany-extensions cvs? We can leave it disabled by
default for as
>>long as it hasn't reached 1.0, but it might give
your extension a bit
>>wider audience!
>
> Not a bad idea. How do I go about it?
>

I've also been writing a Del.icio.us extension, and I think
it works in
a more sane way than Epilicious.  It doesn't require a
manual
synchronization.  Every time you add or change a bookmark,
it gets sent
to your Del.icio.us account.

Most of the work is in Epiphany itself, in adding a
bookmark-changed and
bookmark-added signal.  I have patches for this (which need
more
thought, probably).  This way, though, you could also make
your
extension Just Work, rather than require any user
interaction.

I managed to completely hose my GNOME installation a couple
days ago,
otherwise I would have sent the code by now.  The code (for
Epiphany, at
least), is ready, though.  The code for my own version of
the extension
(written in C) also works, if anyone wants to see it.

Does adding these signals make sense? If you (Magnus, or the
list)
would like to see the patch, let me know. This would allow
for my
extension, Magnus' extension, and any other social
bookmarking
services (Shadows, Magnolia, etc.) to function without any
extra
work on the part of the user.

-eric
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On Sun, Apr 23, 2006 at 01:37:32PM -0700, Eric Lesh wrote:
>This morning, Magnus Therning wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>>By the way, have you considered committing
Epilicious to
>>>epiphany-extensions cvs? We can leave it
disabled by default for as
>>>long as it hasn't reached 1.0, but it might
give your extension a bit
>>>wider audience!
>>
>> Not a bad idea. How do I go about it?
>>
>
>I've also been writing a Del.icio.us extension, and I
think it works in
>a more sane way than Epilicious.  It doesn't require a
manual
>synchronization.  Every time you add or change a
bookmark, it gets sent
>to your Del.icio.us account.

Cool. I guess there's no connectivity issue since most
additions of
bookmarks happen when surfing anyway.

First I'm wondering how you handle changes that are made on
the
del.icio.us side? (Epilicious is a two-way synch, designed
more for
sharing bookmarks between systems than for pushing bookmarks
to
del.icio.us.)

Another thing, it's been my intention all along to add
support for
multiple del.icio.us accounts at the same time. I don't see
any problems
with that using signals.

>Most of the work is in Epiphany itself, in adding a
bookmark-changed
>and bookmark-added signal.  I have patches for this
(which need more
>thought, probably).  This way, though, you could also
make your
>extension Just Work, rather than require any user
interaction.
>
[..]
>
>Does adding these signals make sense? If you (Magnus, or
the list)
>would like to see the patch, let me know. This would
allow for my
>extension, Magnus' extension, and any other social
bookmarking services
>(Shadows, Magnolia, etc.) to function without any extra
work on the
>part of the user.

I kind of like the idea, especially for pushing bookmarks to
del.icio.us
(or similar service). For synching it'd require slightly
more work in
epiphany (listening for a delete signal) and in the sharing
app (regular
polling I guess is the straight forward way to deal with
changes made on
the remote side). I'm also not entirely convinced that
automatic
synching is a good way to go as long as the security of
del.icio.us is
so lax.

/M

-- 
Magnus Therning                    (OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4)
magnustherning.org
http://therning.org/magnus


Software is not manufactured, it is something you write and
publish.
Keep Europe free from software patents, we do not want
censorship
by patent law on written works.

DRM discourages piracy like Thalidomide promotes healthy
childbirth.
     -- Mark Hewitt, on the ORG discuss list
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This morning, Magnus Therning wrote:

>>I've also been writing a Del.icio.us extension, and
I think it works in
>>a more sane way than Epilicious.  It doesn't
require a manual
>>synchronization.  Every time you add or change a
bookmark, it gets sent
>>to your Del.icio.us account.
>
> Cool. I guess there's no connectivity issue since most
additions of
> bookmarks happen when surfing anyway.
>
> First I'm wondering how you handle changes that are
made on the
> del.icio.us side? (Epilicious is a two-way synch,
designed more for
> sharing bookmarks between systems than for pushing
bookmarks to
> del.icio.us.)

This was something I was unsure about.  Because del.icio.us
provides an
update api, I suppose that polling would have to be the way
to do it.
We would need to see when the last update was done and, if
it doesn't
match the time of the extension's last push, we should
download the new
information.

> Another thing, it's been my intention all along to add
support for
> multiple del.icio.us accounts at the same time. I
don't see any problems
> with that using signals.

None at all.

>>Does adding these signals make sense? If you
(Magnus, or the list)
>>would like to see the patch, let me know. This would
allow for my
>>extension, Magnus' extension, and any other social
bookmarking services
>>(Shadows, Magnolia, etc.) to function without any
extra work on the
>>part of the user.
>
> I kind of like the idea, especially for pushing
bookmarks to del.icio.us
> (or similar service). For synching it'd require
slightly more work in
> epiphany (listening for a delete signal) and in the
sharing app (regular
> polling I guess is the straight forward way to deal
with changes made on
> the remote side). I'm also not entirely convinced that
automatic
> synching is a good way to go as long as the security of
del.icio.us is
> so lax.

All the signals for Epiphany are setup.  If you drag and
drop a
bookmark, the signal is triggered.  If you delete a
bookmark, rename a
topic, delete a topic, change a title, whatever, the right
signals get
triggered, so you can call the right handler.

Remote updates are the hardest bit to figure out.  You're
probably right
that polling is the only really workable way. Maybe every
call to open
the bookmarks menu or dialog would run an update-and-sync
function, so
polling would be unnecessary?

What do you mean about the security of del.icio.us being
lax?  I don't
know all that much about the API (besides what got the
extension
working) so can't comment on that.  Is there anything we
can do fix it
client-side?

-eric
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