my brother is making me learn FreeBSD...

My task is to build a BSD server and do something with it.
That is all the
information he gave me, that, and any questions I have to
make Google my
best friend, which I have. i remember building my first
whitebox, it was a
386 with windows 3.1. I remember when I built my 486 and
stole a copy of
windows 95. I thought I was a savage. BSD, however, has
showed me how
juvenile I have been. If I do not master BSD my brother is
going to keep me
as a desktop support for his windows clients and I want to
progress past
this. So he's giving me a 1u, and said to put BSD on it and
make it do
something, im just so stuck in my windows comfort zone I
can't think of what
I would need a unix server to that I couldn't make windows
do for me. I know
this is trivial but if somebody could offer any suggestion
or resource I,
and my career, would greatly appreciate it

 

Donald Laniohan

MLAN Consulting

San Diego, CA

donaldmlansd.com

 

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On Thu, March 20, 2008 15:32, Donald Laniohan wrote:
> My task is to build a BSD server and do something with
it. That is all the
> information he gave me, that, and any questions I have
to make Google my
> best friend, which I have. i remember building my first
whitebox, it was a
> 386 with windows 3.1. I remember when I built my 486
and stole a copy of
> windows 95. I thought I was a savage. BSD, however, has
showed me how
> juvenile I have been. If I do not master BSD my brother
is going to keep
> me
> as a desktop support for his windows clients and I want
to progress past
> this. So he's giving me a 1u, and said to put BSD on it
and make it do
> something, im just so stuck in my windows comfort zone
I can't think of
> what
> I would need a unix server to that I couldn't make
windows do for me. I
> know
> this is trivial but if somebody could offer any
suggestion or resource I,
> and my career, would greatly appreciate it

make it a webserver (apache)
Make it a proxy (squid)
make it an email server (www.tnpi.biz/mailtoaster)
make it a DNS server (Bind)
make it a database server (mysql/postgresql)
make it a firewall (a proper one, not like windows)
make it a vpn server (can windows do this out of the box?)
make it a sniffer (definitely something that windows cant do
out of the box)
and so forth..

everything you run on windows can be run on Freebsd and
more.

It is hard to install something not knowing what you want. I
mean
installing windows 2003 out of the box wont do you any good
as well,
untill you configured the services which you want.

So.. a nice task could be.. replacing the windows
2003/2000/2008 server
with a Freebsd box and not loosing functionality for the end
user.

So pick a win box, write down what it is doing for you. THen
find the
FreebSd ports for it and try to have it working.

Good luck


>
>
>
> Donald Laniohan
>
> MLAN Consulting
>
> San Diego, CA
>
> donaldmlansd.com
>
>
>
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> everything you run on windows can be run on Freebsd and
more.

Huh? AFAIK FreeBSD can not act as a domain controller for an
Microsoft AD.
And this is something you would need in a company full of
Windows boxen.
And don't tell me I can throw away Windows and install
FreeBSD on hundreds
of clients (with so varying hardware that even Windows has
problems sometimes).

Replacing the Windows 2008 server with a FreeBSD box without
loosing
functionality? Are you sure you really meant that? Just
checking again before
starting spitting out things where FreeBSD can not replace
Windows server.

Bye,
Nejc
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On Thu, March 20, 2008 16:18, Nejc Škoberne wrote:
>> everything you run on windows can be run on Freebsd
and more.
>
> Huh? AFAIK FreeBSD can not act as a domain controller
for an Microsoft AD.

AD is nothing more than a big database accessible over
LDAP.
You connect to the LDAP database, and when you are
authenticated you get a
kerberos token.

Clients use SRV records to check for AD services. SRV
Records are
supported by BIND. It is possible to run AD and have your
DNS/AD zones on
a BIND DNS server. I believe you can even find whitepapers
from Microsoft
for this.

Of course certain features are Microsoft specific.

> And this is something you would need in a company full
of Windows boxen.
> And don't tell me I can throw away Windows and install
FreeBSD on hundreds
> of clients (with so varying hardware that even Windows
has problems
> sometimes).

Xorg + openoffice? Why not? Of course the TCO will increase,
training etc.
It is simpler for the majority of us to stick to windows.

>
> Replacing the Windows 2008 server with a FreeBSD box
without loosing
> functionality? Are you sure you really meant that? Just
checking again
> before
> starting spitting out things where FreeBSD can not
replace Windows server.

yes. I meant that. We are talking out of the box Windows
2008. What kind
of functionality are you talking about?

At work I use windows a lot. Windows 2003 R2, SCCM, SQL
2005, SCOM,
Exchange 2007 and all the other latest stuff from Microsoft.
But for all
these applications I can use also Freebsd and applications
found in ports.

Besides, the point was that the TS wanted to start using
somethign else
than windows to learn more about OS in general. PPl stick to
Windows
because they are afraid for change and a learning curve.

>
> Bye,
> Nejc

Bye
Patrick

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On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 11:32:08PM -0800, Donald Laniohan
wrote:
> My task is to build a BSD server and do something with
it. That is all the
> information he gave me, that, and any questions I have
to make Google my
> best friend, which I have. i remember building my first
whitebox, it was a
> 386 with windows 3.1. I remember when I built my 486
and stole a copy of
> windows 95. I thought I was a savage. BSD, however, has
showed me how
> juvenile I have been. If I do not master BSD my brother
is going to keep me
> as a desktop support for his windows clients and I want
to progress past
> this. So he's giving me a 1u, and said to put BSD on it
and make it do
> something, im just so stuck in my windows comfort zone
I can't think of what
> I would need a unix server to that I couldn't make
windows do for me. I know
> this is trivial but if somebody could offer any
suggestion or resource I,
> and my career, would greatly appreciate it

Reasonably easy stuff that'd teach you something useful and
*be*
immediately useful, all at the same time, would be:

  1. Set up a document management server using Subversion. 
The idea is
  that you commit a directory you use for your personal
documents to a
  version control system so that whenever you update the
documents, you
  can have both the current and all previous versions
recoverable from
  the server in case of disaster or a desire to "roll
back" some changes
  you've made.  A Google search string that should help for
getting it
  set up is:

      subversion "document management"

  Since it's probably not "cheating" to have
someone point you directly
  at a link for something on MS Windows, I'll just give you
a direct link
  to an article I wrote a while back about setting up
TortoiseSVN on MS
  Windows.  TortoiseSVN is a client for Subversion, and can
be used to
  make use of your personal document management server from
a Microsoft
  Windows client, if you don't have a FreeBSD desktop or
laptop system
  available.  The URL is:

      http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-3513_11-
6172851.html
  
  2. Set up a backup server.  There are several excellent
tools for this
  that automate most of the process.  Popular choices
include Backula,
  rsync, and dump.  With some tools, you may want to
schedule their
  operation by use of cron -- which means you'll probably be
learning at
  least two separate tools.  Since there are so many
different means of
  setting up a backup server, I'll leave it to you to figure
out what
  search strings to use.

  3. Set up a remote filesystem integrity auditing server. 
Tools such as
  mtree, Tripwire, and rsync can all be used for this
purpose.  I've even
  written articles about the use of these tools for these
purposes.  You
  should be able to find them with Google search strings
like the
  following:

      mtree "integrity auditing"
      rsync "integrity auditing"
      tripwire "integrity auditing"

I chose these three server types in particular because:

  1. They're things you can't do very effectively on MS
Windows without
  tracking down third party software to buy, copy, or
download via your
  browser to install on the system with great annoyance and
difficulty.

  2. They're relatively easy (with the possible exception of
using
  tripwire or getting really fancy with the configuration of
some of
  these), unlike other things MS Windows doesn't do so well
(like setting
  up a stateful router/firewall, which can easily get fairly
complex).

  3. I've done them all, and they're all only a very brief
shell command
  away from installing on the system (assuming you have the
full CD set
  or a broadband Internet connection).

  4. None of them require use of the X Window System, so you
can set them
  all up and manage them using nothing more than a command
shell via SSH.

  5. They can all be immediately useful for you, whereas
something like a
  firewall you're setting up without a specific need for a
firewall
  system probably cannot.

NOTES:

  1. I haven't mentioned the single most useful bit of help
you can get
  for finding out how to get things running in FreeBSD. 
I'll give you a
  hint, though; FreeBSD is the OS whose user documentation
is the
  absolute best, in my experience.  I haven't used all
available OSes, of
  course, but I've used quite a few.

  2. I can't swear that the results you get from the above
recommended
  Google search strings will give you the information you
need.  They're
  just ideas off the top of my head for how to get started
on searching.
  I have not tested those search strings for these
purposes.

  3. Anything I intentionally leave out of this email that
might be
  helpful (such as URLs that lead directly to various
resources that give
  step-by-step instructions on achieving certain ends with
FreeBSD), I
  left out because I wouldn't want to be accused of
"cheating" by simply
  handing over the answers when you have obviously been
given a challenge
  by your brother.  The content of this email is meant to
offer ideas for
  what goals to choose, give hints on how it can be done by
someone brand
  spanking new to FreeBSD without giving answers, and
explain my choices.

  4. I have to stop typing at some point, so you only get
the three
  suggestions for server types above.

-- 
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org
]
Paul Graham: "Real ugliness is not harsh-looking
syntax, but having to
build programs out of the wrong concepts."
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Hey Patrick,

> AD is nothing more than a big database accessible over
LDAP.
> You connect to the LDAP database, and when you are
authenticated you get a
> kerberos token.
> 
> Clients use SRV records to check for AD services. SRV
Records are
> supported by BIND. It is possible to run AD and have
your DNS/AD zones on
> a BIND DNS server. I believe you can even find
whitepapers from Microsoft
> for this.
> 
> Of course certain features are Microsoft specific.

So you are saying that merely setting up an OpenLDAP server
with proper DNS
configuration and Kerberos authentication could replace
Microsoft AD controller?
How about a group of controllers with all the failover
features? Group policies?
Are you sure you could do that just with a "bit of
tweaking"? If there are Microsoft
specific features, than FreeBSD can't do anything Windows
server does and more. I
am really skeptic about joining a Vista into such a domain.
I would really love to
see ONE guy who achieves that. To _completely_ replace
Windows server with all its
features with FreeBSD Anyone?

> Xorg + openoffice? Why not? Of course the TCO will
increase, training etc.
> It is simpler for the majority of us to stick to
windows.

Sorry, but OpenOffice is more featureless than MS Office
2007. There are things
which you can do with MS Office so MUCH easily than with
OpenOffice. For feature
comparison see:

http://blogs.zdnet.c
om/Ou/?p=480

Not to mention performance issues with OpenOffice:

http://www.openoffice.org/product/docs/ms2007vsooo2.pdf

And not to mention, that running Xorg prevents a company
from running many other
software (specific to some environment, for example here in
Slovenia we have many
small companies which develop various business software -
from business directories
to phone books, dictionaries, ... practically none of them
can run under Windows).
Being a company it is difficult to choose where you live.
You could say "just don't
run that software" but I can't say that to users.
Because they need that stuff.

> yes. I meant that. We are talking out of the box
Windows 2008. What kind
> of functionality are you talking about?

The most important thing: we are talking about ordinary
users not a bunch of
math professors who want to run every application from a
shell. And those users
want to use things nicely. For example, let's look at the
mail system. You could
put a Postfix+amavisd-new+spamassassin+Horde+postfixadmin+
... bla bla stuff on
your FreeBSD server (I actually run this on many servers).
But in that webmail,
you are not able to manage your spam quarantine for example
- you have to logout
of Horde and login to Maia Mailguard (before you have to
install that too), which
is complicated for users. The problem of "mail" is
then cut to so many little
pieces that it may affect user efficiency. The problem with
concatenating so many
opensource products is that it is hard to make them work
together like a charm.
Microsoft usually (!) provides that (naturally, because it
produces all those
pieces).

How about group policies? How would you do that with FreeBSD
server? Group policies
are "THE" thing you need when managing greater
amount of workstations.

> At work I use windows a lot. Windows 2003 R2, SCCM, SQL
2005, SCOM,
> Exchange 2007 and all the other latest stuff from
Microsoft. But for all
> these applications I can use also Freebsd and
applications found in ports.

Probably you use it more than I do, I really run FreeBSD
servers mostly. And I
have problems with providing nice-packaged, easy-to-use,
all-in-one software to
users who are used to that. I use FreeBSD/OS mostly because
it is free of charge
and because it is quite costumisable. If MS products would
be free of charge, I
would probably switch to them in most cases. I would just
keep the OS scene for
our math professors, because you just _can't_ use non-OS
software at universities. 

> Besides, the point was that the TS wanted to start
using somethign else
> than windows to learn more about OS in general. PPl
stick to Windows
> because they are afraid for change and a learning
curve.

I totally agree here. And I agree that it's good to check
other things too, even
if it is for learning only. Not only good, I think it is
necessary for a good admin.

I just don't agree with the statement, that Windows servers
are completely inferior
to FreeBSD and you could replace all of them with FreeBSD
boxen. If that would be
possible, I would do it already.

I really am a FreeBSD guy, I run it for more than 6 years
now and I like it a lot.
But I learned to be reasonable and not to say that it is in
every way superior to
everything else in the world.

Still just talking, not fighting.

Bye,
Nejc
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Hiya,

On Thu, March 20, 2008 17:50, Nejc Škoberne wrote:
> Hey Patrick,
>
>> AD is nothing more than a big database accessible
over LDAP.
>> You connect to the LDAP database, and when you are
authenticated you get
>> a
>> kerberos token.
>>
>> Clients use SRV records to check for AD services.
SRV Records are
>> supported by BIND. It is possible to run AD and
have your DNS/AD zones
>> on
>> a BIND DNS server. I believe you can even find
whitepapers from
>> Microsoft
>> for this.
>>
>> Of course certain features are Microsoft specific.
>
> So you are saying that merely setting up an OpenLDAP
server with proper
> DNS
> configuration and Kerberos authentication could replace
Microsoft AD
> controller?
> How about a group of controllers with all the failover
features? Group
> policies?
> Are you sure you could do that just with a "bit of
tweaking"? If there are
> Microsoft
> specific features, than FreeBSD can't do anything
Windows server does and
> more. I
> am really skeptic about joining a Vista into such a
domain. I would really
> love to
> see ONE guy who achieves that. To _completely_ replace
Windows server with
> all its
> features with FreeBSD Anyone?

Failover is nothing more than multi master replication and
querying a DNS
server for the nearest server which contains an AD database.
If the first
record fails try another one, if that fails try another one.
This is how
locating AD servers work.

Also why would you want to have a Vista machine in your
Freebsd AD domain
 You
should be running Xorg, Gnome, KDE or whatever,
authenticating
against the Freebsd server.

Thinking about it. What about Radius, isnt that already a
system that
allows you to manage logons network wise?

>
>> Xorg + openoffice? Why not? Of course the TCO will
increase, training
>> etc.
>> It is simpler for the majority of us to stick to
windows.
>
> Sorry, but OpenOffice is more featureless than MS
Office 2007. There are
> things
> which you can do with MS Office so MUCH easily than
with OpenOffice. For
> feature
> comparison see:
>
> http://blogs.zdnet.c
om/Ou/?p=480
>
> Not to mention performance issues with OpenOffice:
>
> http://www.openoffice.org/product/docs/ms2007vsooo2.pdf
>
> And not to mention, that running Xorg prevents a
company from running many
> other
> software (specific to some environment, for example
here in Slovenia we
> have many
> small companies which develop various business software
- from business
> directories
> to phone books, dictionaries, ... practically none of
them can run under
> Windows).

I completely agree with OpenOffice. Thing is that MIcrosoft
has been
defined the de facto standard. And yes to have the same
features in
OpenOffice as in Microsoft you will have to install more
applications.

Dont forget emulators. If you run a 16bit app on windows xp
you run in an
emulator. There is even an option telling windows xp which
version of
dos/windows to emulate.

> Being a company it is difficult to choose where you
live. You could say
> "just don't
> run that software" but I can't say that to users.
Because they need that
> stuff.
>

I agree. Business comes first. But users will be used with
what they get
as long as it does the job, and b, if it does it fast.

>> yes. I meant that. We are talking out of the box
Windows 2008. What kind
>> of functionality are you talking about?
>
> The most important thing: we are talking about ordinary
users not a bunch
> of
> math professors who want to run every application from
a shell. And those
> users
> want to use things nicely. For example, let's look at
the mail system. You
> could
> put a
Postfix+amavisd-new+spamassassin+Horde+postfixadmin+ ... bla
bla
> stuff on
> your FreeBSD server (I actually run this on many
servers). But in that
> webmail,
> you are not able to manage your spam quarantine for
example - you have to
> logout
> of Horde and login to Maia Mailguard (before you have
to install that
> too), which
> is complicated for users. The problem of
"mail" is then cut to so many
> little
> pieces that it may affect user efficiency. The problem
with concatenating
> so many
> opensource products is that it is hard to make them
work together like a
> charm.
> Microsoft usually (!) provides that (naturally, because
it produces all
> those
> pieces).

Spam? What about filtering all the spam into a folder in the
mailbox of a
user. Microsoft calls this junk filter/mail. Then run every
night a script
which feeds the content of that folder into a spamassassin
database. I run
my mailserver onto the Mailtoaster found on www.tnpi.biz and
it learns
spam full automatic.

Microsoft and spam? They dont have a proper spam solution.
You had to buy
expensive addons for exchange. I believe with forefront that
his has
changed but I have no personal experience with this.

I do agree that microsoft has the benefit of everything
together where you
will have to install port and port and package to end up
with the same
result.

>
> How about group policies? How would you do that with
FreeBSD server? Group
> policies
> are "THE" thing you need when managing
greater amount of workstations.
>

group policies are nothing more than a bunch of files. Used
to be adm
files, dont know what they are now, available on a SYSVOL
share available
to the clients. So yes. You can make Group policies
available. As long as
the client knows where to get them from you should be ok. I
assume that
this information is stored in the AD database. As long as
your LDAP
database has the same scheme it should work.

>> At work I use windows a lot. Windows 2003 R2, SCCM,
SQL 2005, SCOM,
>> Exchange 2007 and all the other latest stuff from
Microsoft. But for all
>> these applications I can use also Freebsd and
applications found in
>> ports.
>
> Probably you use it more than I do, I really run
FreeBSD servers mostly.
> And I
> have problems with providing nice-packaged,
easy-to-use, all-in-one
> software to
> users who are used to that. I use FreeBSD/OS mostly
because it is free of
> charge
> and because it is quite costumisable. If MS products
would be free of
> charge, I
> would probably switch to them in most cases. I would
just keep the OS
> scene for
> our math professors, because you just _can't_ use
non-OS software at
> universities. 

I like to use both unfortunately I am restricted to use
windows at work.
Which is ok for me. For an end user the OS makes no
difference. There are
big companies, financial companies even which completely run
on linux.

it is all about training and expectations.

>> Besides, the point was that the TS wanted to start
using somethign else
>> than windows to learn more about OS in general. PPl
stick to Windows
>> because they are afraid for change and a learning
curve.
>
> I totally agree here. And I agree that it's good to
check other things
> too, even
> if it is for learning only. Not only good, I think it
is necessary for a
> good admin.
>
> I just don't agree with the statement, that Windows
servers are completely
> inferior
> to FreeBSD and you could replace all of them with
FreeBSD boxen. If that
> would be
> possible, I would do it already.

Sorry. I did not utter the inferior part. I only said that
everything
which you run on windows can also be found on Freebsd.

>
> I really am a FreeBSD guy, I run it for more than 6
years now and I like
> it a lot.
> But I learned to be reasonable and not to say that it
is in every way
> superior to
> everything else in the world.
>
> Still just talking, not fighting.

Just writing.
To be honest I think you hijacked the thread but I like the
topic. It
makes you think about what microsoft offers you and how much
effort is
required to have the same on Freebsd.

If I had the time I would have tried building an network
with Active
Directory running on a Freebsd server. Probably would have
failed due to
some microsoft specific thing. Point is still that all the
features are
available on Freebsd.

However using that. I wouldnt recommend. When I need to do a
job, i first
look at the job, what is exactly required and then start
working on how to
do it. It might be windows, it might be freebsd.

Each OS has it good points and it bad points.

The OS should be tailored for the task, not the task
tailored for the OS.

Cheers

Patrick

>
> Bye,
> Nejc
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"Donald Laniohan" <donaldmlansd.com> wrote:
>
> My task is to build a BSD server and do something with
it. That is all the
> information he gave me, that, and any questions I have
to make Google my
> best friend, which I have. i remember building my first
whitebox, it was a
> 386 with windows 3.1. I remember when I built my 486
and stole a copy of
> windows 95. I thought I was a savage. BSD, however, has
showed me how
> juvenile I have been. If I do not master BSD my brother
is going to keep me
> as a desktop support for his windows clients and I want
to progress past
> this. So he's giving me a 1u, and said to put BSD on it
and make it do
> something, im just so stuck in my windows comfort zone
I can't think of what
> I would need a unix server to that I couldn't make
windows do for me. I know
> this is trivial but if somebody could offer any
suggestion or resource I,
> and my career, would greatly appreciate it

While the other advice is good, I'd just set up an Apache
web server if I
were you.  It's one of the simpler tasks to take on, and
you'll find lots
and lots of assistance on this via Google.

Another, possibly even easier, option is to set up a shell
server.  Just
install the OS, enable sshd and add some users.  You could
argue that it's
a secure file transfer server (load up WinSCP on a Windows
box and show off
just how 133t your are)

The handbook is going to be your best guide initially:
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handb
ook/

-- 
Bill Moran
http://www.potentialtech
.com
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On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 8:32 AM, Donald Laniohan
<donaldmlansd.com> wrote:

> My task is to build a BSD server and do something with
it.

To add to the Patrick's list:

make it a DAAP music server. See mt-daapd:

$ cat /usr/ports/audio/mt-daapd/pkg-descr

daapd scans a directory for music files and makes them
available via
the Apple proprietary protocol DAAP. DAAP clients can browse
the
directory and retrieve individual files, either by streaming
or by
downloading them.
WWW: http://mt-daapd.sour
ceforge.net/

-- 
 Colin Brace
 Amsterdam
 http://lim.nl
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On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 11:32:08PM -0800, Donald Laniohan
wrote:

> My task is to build a BSD server and do something with
it. That is all the
> information he gave me, that, and any questions I have
to make Google my
> best friend, which I have. i remember building my first
whitebox, it was a
> 386 with windows 3.1. I remember when I built my 486
and stole a copy of
> windows 95. I thought I was a savage. BSD, however, has
showed me how
> juvenile I have been. If I do not master BSD my brother
is going to keep me
> as a desktop support for his windows clients and I want
to progress past
> this. So he's giving me a 1u, and said to put BSD on it
and make it do
> something, im just so stuck in my windows comfort zone
I can't think of what
> I would need a unix server to that I couldn't make
windows do for me. I know
> this is trivial but if somebody could offer any
suggestion or resource I,
> and my career, would greatly appreciate it
> 

Good for your brother.

First thing to do is get on the FreeBSD website:   http://www.freebsd.org/
and start reading.    Especially read the handbook and
things about
installing and setting up FreeBSD.

Then put some stuff on it, such as browser (Firefox,
probably), 
web server (Apache), office tools (OpenOffice) and maybe a
few games
from /usr/ports and learn to use those.   You might want to
add
database (MySQL), interpreter (Perl, PHP) and other stuff as
needed.

Have fun.  

////jerry

> Donald Laniohan
> 
> MLAN Consulting
> San Diego, CA
> donaldmlansd.com
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