GUI toolkit: wx to fox?

Hi,

I just discovered FreeRIDE yesterday and am anxious to
give it a try.

I was just reading about some Ruby + GUI history at

http://www.rubygarden.org/ruby?DoYourRubyGUIResearch
and noticed that the author mentioned FreeRIDE as using
wxRuby.

I added a note at the bottom of that page indicating
what I thought FreeRIDE depends on. Just curious though,
what's the history here? Did the FreeRIDE team originally
try to implement an SWT-like GUI toolkit in Ruby? Did you
try wxRuby for a while? Why the switch to FOX?

Thanks,
---John


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
_______________________________________________
Freeride-devel mailing list
Freeride-develrubyforge.org

http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/freeride-devel

Hi John,

I wasn't there when FR got written but I think that FXRuby
was the only 
GUI-toolkit used for FR. There were plans to upgrade from
Fox to Wx for 
several reasons. One of them being that Wx renders natively,
which is 
quite nice. see also 
http://freeride.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?WxRemarks

For the past couple a months I've been thinking more and
more about 
FreeRIDE-2, using Wx, but all-in-all it's going to be a
hell of a job to 
convert the current codebase to Wx. As a sidenote: WxRuby2
is being 
heavily rewritten (by Kevin Smith, Roy Sutton and Alex
Fenton) so 
rewriting FR isn't an option just yet....

I hope this answered your curiosity a bit....

With kind regards
Jonathan

John M. Gabriele wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I just discovered FreeRIDE yesterday and am anxious to
>give it a try.
>
>I was just reading about some Ruby + GUI history at
>
http://www.rubygarden.org/ruby?DoYourRubyGUIResearch
>and noticed that the author mentioned FreeRIDE as using
>wxRuby.
>
>I added a note at the bottom of that page indicating
>what I thought FreeRIDE depends on. Just curious though,
>what's the history here? Did the FreeRIDE team
originally
>try to implement an SWT-like GUI toolkit in Ruby? Did
you
>try wxRuby for a while? Why the switch to FOX?
>
>Thanks,
>---John
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
around 
>http://mail.yahoo.com 
>_______________________________________________
>Freeride-devel mailing list
>Freeride-develrubyforge.org
>
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/freeride-devel
>
>
>  
>

_______________________________________________
Freeride-devel mailing list
Freeride-develrubyforge.org

http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/freeride-devel

Thanks for the quick replies.

I only briefly looked at wxWidgets a while back, and I think
my
first thought was, "eww, reminds me of MFC", and
I haven't looked
at it since.

Interesting to hear that it's so well-documented.

It's license seems pretty strange to me though. It pretty
much says,
it's LGPL except that you can distribute modified binaries
without
source under your own terms. To me, that seems to be saying,
"it's
like water, only it's not wet". 

Curt, would it be ok for me to add a "History"
page detailing
what you wrote here?

Oh, one last thing: you mention "higher priority
features needed".
Are you able to use FreeRIDE for all your development work
in Ruby?

Thanks,
---John


--- Curt Hibbs <curt.hibbsgmail.com> wrote:

> Here's the real story, straight from the horses mouth
(so to speak):
> 
> In the very beginning we searched all of the available
GUI toolkits to
> decide what to use for FreeRIDE. No exsting Ruby
toolkit met all of the
> requirements. FXRuby came the closest, but was still
missing two
> requirements: internationalization and native widgets.
> 
> So, when I implemented the initial GUI subsystem for
FreeRIDE I was careful
> to separate the GUI rendering into a plugin that only
relied on information
> from the databus to do its job (i.e., no direct calls
into the GUI
> subsystem). The plan was to later swap out the FXRuby
rendering plugin with
> a wxRuby rendering plugin.
> 
> At that time wxRuby did not exist. Later, I started the
wxRuby project
> (along with someone else who is long gone and I can't
even remember his
> name) because I wanted it for FreeRIDE. Fortunately,
Park Heesob donated
> some working code and Kevin Smith came along and did
all the work. So, I
> never really did any work on wxRuby other than to
create the Windows
> installer.
> 
> It would still be a good thing to create a wxRuby
rendering plugin for
> FreeRIDE, although I suspect there are still higher
priority features
> needed.
> 
> Curt
> 
> On 4/6/06, Jonathan Maasland <nochoicexs4all.nl> wrote:
> >
> > Hi John,
> >
> > I wasn't there when FR got written but I think
that FXRuby was the only
> > GUI-toolkit used for FR. There were plans to
upgrade from Fox to Wx for
> > several reasons. One of them being that Wx renders
natively, which is
> > quite nice. see also 
http://freeride.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?WxRemarks
> >
> > For the past couple a months I've been thinking
more and more about
> > FreeRIDE-2, using Wx, but all-in-all it's going
to be a hell of a job to
> > convert the current codebase to Wx. As a sidenote:
WxRuby2 is being
> > heavily rewritten (by Kevin Smith, Roy Sutton and
Alex Fenton) so
> > rewriting FR isn't an option just yet....
> >
> > I hope this answered your curiosity a bit....
> >
> > With kind regards
> > Jonathan
> >
> > John M. Gabriele wrote:
> >
> > >Hi,
> > >
> > >I just discovered FreeRIDE yesterday and am
anxious to
> > >give it a try.
> > >
> > >I was just reading about some Ruby + GUI
history at
> > >
http://www.rubygarden.org/ruby?DoYourRubyGUIResearch
> > >and noticed that the author mentioned FreeRIDE
as using
> > >wxRuby.
> > >
> > >I added a note at the bottom of that page
indicating
> > >what I thought FreeRIDE depends on. Just
curious though,
> > >what's the history here? Did the FreeRIDE
team originally
> > >try to implement an SWT-like GUI toolkit in
Ruby? Did you
> > >try wxRuby for a while? Why the switch to FOX?
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >---John
> > >
> > >


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
_______________________________________________
Freeride-devel mailing list
Freeride-develrubyforge.org

http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/freeride-devel

--- Curt Hibbs <curt.hibbsgmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/6/06, Jonathan Maasland <nochoicexs4all.nl> wrote:
> >
> >
> > For the past couple a months I've been thinking
more and more about
> > FreeRIDE-2, using Wx, but all-in-all it's going
to be a hell of a job to
> > convert the current codebase to Wx.
>
> [snip]
> when I implemented the initial GUI subsystem for
FreeRIDE I was careful
> to separate the GUI rendering into a plugin that only
relied on information
> from the databus to do its job (i.e., no direct calls
into the GUI
> subsystem). The plan was to later swap out the FXRuby
rendering plugin with
> a wxRuby rendering plugin.
> 
> [snip]
> It would still be a good thing to create a wxRuby
rendering plugin for
> FreeRIDE, although I suspect there are still higher
priority features
> needed.
> 
> Curt

Hm. Jon, maybe it wouldn't be as difficult as you suspect?

> > As a sidenote: WxRuby2 is being
> > heavily rewritten (by Kevin Smith, Roy Sutton and
Alex Fenton) so
> > rewriting FR isn't an option just yet....

Ah. Well, it's a ways off anyway then.

> > I hope this answered your curiosity a bit....

Yes! Thanks for the message. 

---John


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
_______________________________________________
Freeride-devel mailing list
Freeride-develrubyforge.org

http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/freeride-devel

On Thu, 2006-04-06 at 11:32 -0700, John M. Gabriele wrote:
> I only briefly looked at wxWidgets a while back, and I
think my
> first thought was, "eww, reminds me of
MFC", and I haven't looked
> at it since.

That's a fair summary. Originally, I think it was almost an
MFC clone. I
believe it has improved somewhat since then.

Initially, we will directly expose the native API in wxRuby.
After that,
we hope to do something similar to what Lyle did with FX,
and create a
much friendlier, more rubyish interface.

By the way, the wxRuby rewrite (taking advantage of SWIG) is
probably
80% done. Unfortunately, the last 20% is taking the other
80% (or more)
of the time. I keep hoping I'll have time to wrap it up,
but so far life
has interfered. It's probably about 80 person-hours away
from reasonably
solid beta quality.

I would love to see FreeRIDE use wx, but not yet.

Kevin


_______________________________________________
Freeride-devel mailing list
Freeride-develrubyforge.org

http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/freeride-devel

--- Kevin Smith <wxrubyqualitycode.com> wrote:
> 
> By the way, the wxRuby rewrite (taking advantage of
SWIG) is probably
> 80% done. Unfortunately, the last 20% is taking the
other 80% (or more)
> of the time. I keep hoping I'll have time to wrap it
up, but so far life
> has interfered. It's probably about 80 person-hours
away from reasonably
> solid beta quality.
> 
> I would love to see FreeRIDE use wx, but not yet.
> 
> Kevin
> 

Thanks Kevin.

I added a "Future" link to the FreeRIDE page
(just
below "History") and put that information in
there:

http://freeride.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?FreeRIDE_Fu
ture

May I quote your comment there as it appears above?

Also, while we're here, ever looked at the TOAD GUI
toolkit? http://w
ww.mark13.org/?sec0=sw&sec1=toad
No Ruby bindings for that yet though, but it's a pretty
clean and modern toolkit.

---John


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
_______________________________________________
Freeride-devel mailing list
Freeride-develrubyforge.org

http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/freeride-devel

--- Curt Hibbs <curt.hibbsgmail.com> wrote:

> On 4/7/06, John M. Gabriele <john_sips_teayahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > --- Kevin Smith <wxrubyqualitycode.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > By the way, the wxRuby rewrite (taking
advantage of SWIG) is probably
> > > 80% done. Unfortunately, the last 20% is
taking the other 80% (or more)
> > > of the time. I keep hoping I'll have time to
wrap it up, but so far life
> > > has interfered. It's probably about 80
person-hours away from reasonably
> > > solid beta quality.
> > >
> > > I would love to see FreeRIDE use wx, but not
yet.
> > >
> > > Kevin
> > >
> >
> > Thanks Kevin.
> >
> > I added a "Future" link to the
FreeRIDE page (just
> > below "History") and put that
information in there:
> >
> > http://freeride.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?FreeRIDE_Fu
ture
> >
> > May I quote your comment there as it appears
above?
> >
> > Also, while we're here, ever looked at the TOAD
GUI
> > toolkit? http://w
ww.mark13.org/?sec0=sw&sec1=toad
> > No Ruby bindings for that yet though, but it's a
pretty
> > clean and modern toolkit.
> >
> > ---John
> >
> 
> Unless I missed something, it looks like the TOAD GUI
is not cross
> platform... its only X systems.
> 
> Curt
>

I believe you are correct. I only mentioned it here
as an aside. I figured it might possibly be of passing
interest to Kevin (or you) given that

A. you're the sort of folks who work on Ruby bindings
to GUI toolkits,

B. that it's not a very well-known toolkit (so you
may not've heard of it), and

C. that it's quite OO from what I remember, so it might
be a good match for Ruby, in general. (No idea if it'd
be useful for FreeRIDE though.)

Never thought about trying to run it on MS Windows.
I guess you'd need to run Cygwin's X11 for it to
work, right?

Well, sorry to take the thread off-topic. 

---John


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
_______________________________________________
Freeride-devel mailing list
Freeride-develrubyforge.org

http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/freeride-devel