new to gst coming from VAST

Hi all!

I receive the posts of this list since months and I tried to
experiment
with it.

*** My questions are in the middle of this e-mail.
All the others are just the story...

I'm a VisualAge Smalltalk programmer since 1997 - or
actually I was.
However, we have some applications developed in smalltalk,
and version
5.5 was the last we licensed from IBM. The main question is
that some of
these application software are still in use at our customers
and they're
just happy with that. And they are even asking for changes
and additions.

We are in a dilemma of these:
- port our applications to other ST system.
- port to other language/framework (some already done and
moved to Python)

I tried gst and the BLOX browsers which are nice and easy,
and really
enough for start.

*** My questions:
- is there a HOWTO or a QUICK GUIDE about GST for Stupid
VASTers?   
(main differences in the use of the system, etc)
- 90% of our customers use Win32. Any plan for a native
release?
- One of our key application running at 6 customers is a CMS
system,
heavily depending on the WebConnection feature of VAST. Is
there any web
server component for GST? Pure CGI is more than enough, as
it is only a
CMS system, not the runtime. I'm also afraid of moving the
database layer...

We would like to preserve the application logic existing in
smalltalk
and we would like  to move to open source as VAST is still
painfully
expensive and its long term (long term!!!) existence is not
guaranteed
(if IBM drops something....)

I personally DO LOVE smalltalk as the most productive
language
environment I ever used.

Thanks for any help, recommendations.

best regards!

Robert

GNU Smalltalk version 2.3.3
Linux tpgentoo 2.6.22-gentoo-r9




_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
help-smalltalkgnu.org

http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 19:04 +0100, RK wrote:
> We are in a dilemma of these:
> - port our applications to other ST system.
> - port to other language/framework (some already done
and moved to Python)

Hopefully you can swing the former. 

> *** My questions:
> - is there a HOWTO or a QUICK GUIDE about GST for
Stupid VASTers?   
> (main differences in the use of the system, etc)

Not really; you may want to run through the tutorial in the
official
manual.  GST is very similar to ST-80.  I believe some
methods are
present to enable filein of VAST fileouts.

> - 90% of our customers use Win32. Any plan for a native
release?

The project doesn't have the resources for that at this
time.
Volunteers welcome.

Remember, as a GNU project, the priority is to work well on
GNU systems.
As Paolo, the maintainer, also runs OS X, it tends to work
well there as
well.  Of course an OS X port is not nearly as involved as
Windows.

> - One of our key application running at 6 customers is
a CMS system,
> heavily depending on the WebConnection feature of VAST.
Is there any web
> server component for GST? Pure CGI is more than enough,
as it is only a
> CMS system, not the runtime. I'm also afraid of moving
the database layer...

A DB abstraction with a few drivers is included, as well as
GLORP.
There is also a web server.  Please look in the packages/
directory of
the source tree.  The manual has a section on how to use and
make
packages.

> GNU Smalltalk version 2.3.3

You should *definitely* upgrade to the latest alpha release.
 Some of
what I said above isn't available in 2.3.x.

-- 
Our last-ditch plan is to change the forums into a podcast,
then send
RSS feeds into the blogosphere so our users can further
debate the
legality of mashups amongst this month's 20 'sexiest'
gadgets.
        --Richard "Lowtax" Kyanka

_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
help-smalltalkgnu.org

http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk

	Hi, Robert!

I'm quite new to Smalltalk/Gst too. Still, I spent some time
to dig  
into it and I can share my own opinion. Please consider
following as my  
IMHO!

Paolo and others, please please forgive me as the opinion
may be too  
straight and not 100% true.

On 04.12.2007 00:04:33, RK wrote:
> We are in a dilemma of these:
> - port our applications to other ST system.

This is definitely preferable.

> - port to other language/framework (some already done
and moved to  
> Python)
> 
> I tried gst and the BLOX browsers which are nice and
easy, and really  
> enough for start.

BLOX is very basic. Experienced smalltalkers most probably
would  
dislike it. The main problem of Blox/Browser is that it's
not in  
extensive use by anyone (this is just my assumption). It
lacks some  
very basic things such as Keyboard Shortcuts. Still
debugging exists  
and works. But with 2.95Ó I couldn't effectively use the
technique  
"Send message-Trace in debugger-Change method-Try again
cycle" because  
of stability problems.

> *** My questions:
> - is there a HOWTO or a QUICK GUIDE about GST for
Stupid VASTers?    
> (main differences in the use of the system, etc)

There's a tutorial which explains CLI. Nothing about
GUI/Blox/Browser.

> - 90% of our customers use Win32. Any plan for a native
release?
> - One of our key application running at 6 customers is
a CMS system,  
> heavily depending on the WebConnection feature of VAST.
Is there any  
> web server component for GST? Pure CGI is more than
enough, as it is  
> only a CMS system, not the runtime.

This part is developing. Too early for production.

> I'm also afraid of moving the database layer...

Anyone tested DBI? Stress tests, unit tests?

> We would like to preserve the application logic
existing in smalltalk  
> and we would like  to move to open source as VAST is
still painfully  
> expensive and its long term (long term!!!) existence is
not  
> guaranteed (if IBM drops something....)

While you have the sources of the whole class library, lack
of support  
may be not as big problem as it seems. But if you want to
extend and  
develop your system... yes, it's a pain in neck.

> I personally DO LOVE smalltalk as the most productive
language  
> environment I ever used.
> 
> Thanks for any help, recommendations.

My whole opinion about Gst is not optimistic: While having
very sweet  
features (some I cannot find in other breeds), _I'm_
_pretty_ _much_  
_unsure_ _about_ _Gst_ _is_ _ready_ _for_ _production_
_use_.

I tried to understand it deeply (see my post about
wiki/status page),  
but received no response. I decided to dig things myself,
but I cannot  
afford spending much time into it.

Thank you for your attention.
Best regards, Ildar.
-- 
Ildar  Mulyukov,  free SW designer/programmer
================================================
email: ildarusers.sourceforge.net
home: http://tuganger.narod.ru/
ALT Linux Sisyphus
================================================


_______________________________________________
help-smalltalk mailing list
help-smalltalkgnu.org

http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk