Re: Interface localization ?

Hi Philippe,

>> We have 2007 now and should not be dependant on the
Users Font size, 
>> Screen size etc...
>
> Well, call me lazy but we're in 2007 and I should not
have to write an
> XML file to build GUIs  But I
digress, Renaissance is a great tool.

I wouldn't do that either. It's like writing a master thesis
in LATeX 
or a wordprocessor in Assembler. What about writing a little

InterfaceBuilder-like tool that let's you drag & drop
your interface 
together and spits out the XML-file? This makes much more
sense IMHO 
(or install Solaris 10 and use our tools  )!

Regards,

   Andreas



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> I wouldn't do that either. It's like writing a master
thesis in LATeX 

ttoally off topic, but LaTeX is prertty much a requirement
in academia
in the UK still (?!). I thought it had vanished, but my
flatmate had
a job editing papers for journals and it is all required to
be submitted
in LaTeX. erp!

-bat.


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Am 23.11.2007 um 18:17 schrieb Andreas Höschler:

> Hi Philippe,
>
>>> We have 2007 now and should not be dependant on
the Users Font  
>>> size, Screen size etc...
>>
>> Well, call me lazy but we're in 2007 and I should
not have to  
>> write an
>> XML file to build GUIs  But I
digress, Renaissance is a great  
>> tool.
>
> I wouldn't do that either. It's like writing a master
thesis in  
> LATeX or a wordprocessor in Assembler. What about
writing a little  
> InterfaceBuilder-like tool that let's you drag &
drop your  
> interface together and spits out the XML-file? This
makes much more  
> sense IMHO (or install Solaris 10 and use our tools
 )!

Sadly whether your tools nor your frameworks got ever
released.

>
> Regards,
>
>   Andreas

regards,

	Lars

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On Nov 23, 2007 7:45 PM, Pete French <petetwisted.org.uk> wrote:
> > I wouldn't do that either. It's like writing a
master thesis in LATeX
>
> ttoally off topic, but LaTeX is prertty much a
requirement in academia
> in the UK still (?!). I thought it had vanished, but my
flatmate had
> a job editing papers for journals and it is all
required to be submitted
> in LaTeX. erp!

Frankly I wouldn't want to write a paper or thesis in
anything else
than LaTeX...
Not that we couldn't have great graphical tools for that;
but we don't
right now.

-- 
Nicolas Roard


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On 23 Nov 2007, at 20:00, Nicolas Roard wrote:

> On Nov 23, 2007 7:45 PM, Pete French <petetwisted.org.uk> wrote:
>>> I wouldn't do that either. It's like writing a
master thesis in  
>>> LATeX
>>
>> ttoally off topic, but LaTeX is prertty much a
requirement in  
>> academia
>> in the UK still (?!). I thought it had vanished,
but my flatmate had
>> a job editing papers for journals and it is all
required to be  
>> submitted
>> in LaTeX. erp!
>
> Frankly I wouldn't want to write a paper or thesis in
anything else
> than LaTeX...
> Not that we couldn't have great graphical tools for
that; but we don't
> right now.

I'd love to have written my thesis or my book in something
better than  
LaTeX.  I fully intend to abandon it as soon as something
better exists.

Back on-topic, something like LaTeX for GUI design would be
great.   
Currently, we have two options for GNUstep:

- Gorm, which is like FrameMaker.  You lay out your page
(app) exactly  
as you want it to appear to the end user.
- Renaissance, which is like HTML.  You lay out your app
roughly with  
some markup and hope it will look how you wanted it.

The ideal solution would be something like LaTeX, where you
define the  
interactions you need, and it pulls in 40 years of HCI
research to  
design a beautiful UI that embodies these interactions, with
a  
documentclass equivalent so you could make it conform to a
set of  
predefined platform HIGs.  Unfortunately, I haven't yet
decided  
whether designing such a system is impossible or just
really, really  
hard.

David

P.S.  Three times today, I've managed to send a reply to a
mail on  
this list to the sender, not to the list.  Is there any sane
reason  
why this list does not set Reply-To: to the list address? 
Every  
mailing list except this one that I've ever subscribed to
has had the  
reply button send a message to the list.


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On Nov 23, 2007 8:36 PM, David Chisnall <theravensucs.org> wrote:
> On 23 Nov 2007, at 20:00, Nicolas Roard wrote:
>
>
> > On Nov 23, 2007 7:45 PM, Pete French <petetwisted.org.uk> wrote:
> >>> I wouldn't do that either. It's like
writing a master thesis in
> >>> LATeX
> >>
> >> ttoally off topic, but LaTeX is prertty much a
requirement in
> >> academia
> >> in the UK still (?!). I thought it had
vanished, but my flatmate had
> >> a job editing papers for journals and it is
all required to be
> >> submitted
> >> in LaTeX. erp!
> >
> > Frankly I wouldn't want to write a paper or thesis
in anything else
> > than LaTeX...
> > Not that we couldn't have great graphical tools
for that; but we don't
> > right now.
>
> I'd love to have written my thesis or my book in
something better than
> LaTeX.  I fully intend to abandon it as soon as
something better exists.

My point  -- LaTeX
is the worst of all, apart from all the others.
(and what a fantastic procrastination tool ! quite appealing
to grad
students...)

> Back on-topic, something like LaTeX for GUI design
would be great.
> Currently, we have two options for GNUstep:
>
> - Gorm, which is like FrameMaker.  You lay out your
page (app) exactly
> as you want it to appear to the end user.
> - Renaissance, which is like HTML.  You lay out your
app roughly with
> some markup and hope it will look how you wanted it.

As a side note... I believe that most if not everything you
do with
Renaissance you can or should be able to do with Gorm; the
main
advantage of Renaissance is the automatic resizing. You
could easily
add that capacity to Gorm by adding a palette containing the
[h|v]grid
widgets... that renaissance uses (gshbox, etc).

> The ideal solution would be something like LaTeX, where
you define the
> interactions you need, and it pulls in 40 years of HCI
research to
> design a beautiful UI that embodies these interactions,
with a
> documentclass equivalent so you could make it conform
to a set of
> predefined platform HIGs.  Unfortunately, I haven't yet
decided
> whether designing such a system is impossible or just
really, really
> hard.

Writing such a system could be a challenge, but if for
starting we had
precise HCI rules to define a UI... then we could try
thinking about
automating them...

-- 
Nicolas Roard


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