GNUstep on Ubuntu Hardy and Debian Testing.

Hello !

I apologize my poor english (french I am).
I tried to install first GNUstep from regular debs upon
Debian Testing. But
WilldMenus were buggy : horizontal menus were duplicated
(for example, twice
services, and so on).
Si I tried the same way on Hardy Heron (Ubuntu 8.4) : same
result, same bug
with WildMenus.

So I tried to make GNUstep core from gnustep-startup-0.19.3.
I got it well.
Then I made GWorkspace 0.8.6 form Enrico Sersale tar.gz. It
was also
successfully made --- except something wrong with PDFKit.
When I start GWorkspace.app, I get this error :

" openapp GWorkspace.app
/usr/GNUstep/System/Applications/GWorkspace.app/GWorkspace:
symbol lookup
error:
/usr/GNUstep/System/Library/Bundles/libgnustep-back-013.bund
le/./libgnustep-back-013:
undefined symbol: XShmQueryVersion"

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On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:08:45 -0700 (PDT), Rubens_Septimus
<patrick.cardonafree.fr> said:

> Hello !  I apologize my poor english (french I am).  I
tried to
> install first GNUstep from regular debs upon Debian
Testing. But
> WilldMenus were buggy : horizontal menus were
duplicated (for example,
> twice services, and so on).  Si I tried the same way on
Hardy Heron
> (Ubuntu 8.4) : same result, same bug with WildMenus.

We really should get rid of the WildMenus package.  I don't
think it's
supported any more...

Especially since GNUstep is able to do horizontal menus by
itself.

Try running:
defaults write NSGlobalDomain NSMenuInterfaceStyle
NSMacintoshInterfaceStyle

(and disable WildMenus too.)

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Hubert Chathi-2 wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:08:45 -0700 (PDT),
Rubens_Septimus
> <patrick.cardonafree.fr> said:
> 
>> Hello !  I apologize my poor english (french I am).
 I tried to
>> install first GNUstep from regular debs upon Debian
Testing. But
>> WilldMenus were buggy : horizontal menus were
duplicated (for example,
>> twice services, and so on).  Si I tried the same
way on Hardy Heron
>> (Ubuntu 8.4) : same result, same bug with
WildMenus.
> 
> We really should get rid of the WildMenus package.  I
don't think it's
> supported any more...
> 
> Especially since GNUstep is able to do horizontal menus
by itself.
> 
> Try running:
> defaults write NSGlobalDomain NSMenuInterfaceStyle
> NSMacintoshInterfaceStyle
> 
> (and disable WildMenus too.)
> 
Yes, this is the good way to do it. Thanks Hubert.
So I made it all clean, use again regular .deb from Ubuntu
and applied
successfully the "defaults" you said. Thanks
again.

You seems also right to say the WildMenus.bundle seems
deprecated and should
not stay there. It made me wrong the first time. Maybe I
should find all
that by myself reading the right doc : where should I begin
to get good
knowledge about GNUstep user approach ?

There is a also a new problem : with Camaelon and
Nesedah.theme, there is an
arrow after each menu item entry in the horizontal menu bar.
I think this
should not happen. Maybe another defaults option to add to
avoid this side
effect ?

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On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 11:19 PM, Rubens_Septimus
<patrick.cardonafree.fr> wrote:
>
>  Hubert Chathi-2 wrote:
>  > Try running:
>  > defaults write NSGlobalDomain
NSMenuInterfaceStyle
>  > NSMacintoshInterfaceStyle
>  >
>  > (and disable WildMenus too.)
>  >
>  There is a also a new problem : with Camaelon and
Nesedah.theme, there is an
>  arrow after each menu item entry in the horizontal
menu bar. I think this
>  should not happen. Maybe another defaults option to
add to avoid this side
>  effect ?

Or maybe Camaelon needs to take NSMenuInterfaceStyle into
account?


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Le 30 avr. 08 à 09:18, Truls Becken a écrit :

> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 11:19 PM, Rubens_Septimus
> <patrick.cardonafree.fr> wrote:
>>
>> Hubert Chathi-2 wrote:
>>> Try running:
>>> defaults write NSGlobalDomain
NSMenuInterfaceStyle
>>> NSMacintoshInterfaceStyle
>>>
>>> (and disable WildMenus too.)
>>>
>> There is a also a new problem : with Camaelon and
Nesedah.theme,  
>> there is an
>> arrow after each menu item entry in the horizontal
menu bar. I  
>> think this
>> should not happen. Maybe another defaults option to
add to avoid  
>> this side
>> effect ?
>
> Or maybe Camaelon needs to take NSMenuInterfaceStyle
into account?

That's a possibility, you may take a look at EtoileWildMenus
which  
takes care of that iirc. The problem doesn't arise with
Étoilé because  
Camaelon is used together with the menu server and
EtoileWildMenus (a  
fork of WildMenus that integrates with the menu server and
Camaelon).

Cheers,
Quentin.



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Quentin Mathé wrote:
> 
> Le 30 avr. 08 à 09:18, Truls Becken a écrit :
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 11:19 PM, Rubens_Septimus
>> <patrick.cardonafree.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hubert Chathi-2 wrote:
>>>> Try running:
>>>> defaults write NSGlobalDomain
NSMenuInterfaceStyle
>>>> NSMacintoshInterfaceStyle
>>>>
>>>> (and disable WildMenus too.)
>>>>
>>> There is a also a new problem : with Camaelon
and Nesedah.theme,  
>>> there is an
>>> arrow after each menu item entry in the
horizontal menu bar. I  
>>> think this
>>> should not happen. Maybe another defaults
option to add to avoid  
>>> this side
>>> effect ?
>>
>> Or maybe Camaelon needs to take
NSMenuInterfaceStyle into account?
> 
> That's a possibility, you may take a look at
EtoileWildMenus which  
> takes care of that iirc. The problem doesn't arise with
Étoilé because  
> Camaelon is used together with the menu server and
EtoileWildMenus (a  
> fork of WildMenus that integrates with the menu server
and Camaelon).
> 
Hi Quentin,

I know the great job you are doing with the Etoile project,
and thanks again
for your attention. But I would distinguish the two ways of
getting things
to work, in my opinion :

1°) A newbie like me needs an efficient way to install
things together : I
mean an installer or a package manager, dealing with
dependencies about
stable libs, apps or bundles. So, with .deb at this point of
vue, I can't
get now Etoile components or new ones  working together
within the GNUstep
stable core because there are not still stable .debs
available to do it. So
I tried to use svn, or both binaries and svn, and it was too
difficult at my
knowledge level to success. So I agree with the idea the
existing WildMenus
in this state, for example, should not be available for
installing from a
stable list of packages because it obviously breaks the
things and makes
people like me getting a bad idea how the things should
work.
2°) A developer with experience and great knowledge about
different choices
can do the whole things from svn, because he knows how to
resolve
dependencies and preparing the whole system in a development
way. But I'm
afraid I could never success in this way because of my poor
knowledge. I try
to learn, but I'm not a programmer.

So, according to the first way - for newbies like me - my
question might be
: is the Camaelon theme engine specific to Etoile or is it
well integrated
within GNUstep specs so I can use it, without the need to
install from svn ?
I think some clarification about this for people like me
could help more my
understanding of things.

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Hi Rubens

On 30 Apr 2008, at 12:22, Rubens_Septimus wrote:

> So, according to the first way - for newbies like me -
my question  
> might be
> : is the Camaelon theme engine specific to Etoile or is
it well  
> integrated
> within GNUstep specs so I can use it, without the need
to install  
> from svn ?
> I think some clarification about this for people like
me could help  
> more my
> understanding of things.

Camaelon is a set of categories on GNUstep classes and is
highly  
dependent on the layout of a number of classes in AppKit. 
As such, a  
version of Camaelon needs to be paired with the version of
GNUstep.   
The version in Étoilé trunk should work with GNUstep trunk. 
We should  
probably start tagging versions of Camaelon that work with
specific  
GNUstep releases, but haven't done that in the past. 
Nicolas' Summer  
of Code student this year is working on improving theme
support in  
GNUstep and so the ABI dependencies of Camaelon on GNUstep
are likely  
to be reduced in the future (and, hopefully, the AppKit ABI
will be  
stabilised soon...).

With regard to installing from debs, Étoilé does not produce
packages  
for any operating system at present, although we are more
than happy  
to assist anyone wishing to do so.  If you want to create
debs from  
our repository then drop us an email and we'll be happy to
provide any  
help you need.

Camaelon has no dependencies on any parts of Étoilé.  If you
want to  
use horizontal menus, then you have two choices, you can
either use  
the support built into GNUstep by writing the default, or
you can run  
EtoileMenuServer and load the corresponding bundle from the
Étoilé  
repository in the same way you load Camaelon (via user
AppKit  
bundles).  These both work in slightly different ways.  At
some point  
it is probably worth comparing the code in the two and
seeing if they  
can be merged - as I recall the only real difference is that
the  
Étoilé version gets the location for the menu bar by
querying the menu  
server, and so it should be possible to use the same code in
both  
cases and use the default positioning when the menu server
is not  
running.

David

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David Chisnall wrote:
> 
> Hi Rubens
> 
> On 30 Apr 2008, at 12:22, Rubens_Septimus wrote:
> 
>> So, according to the first way - for newbies like
me - my question  
>> might be
>> : is the Camaelon theme engine specific to Etoile
or is it well  
>> integrated
>> within GNUstep specs so I can use it, without the
need to install  
>> from svn ?
>> I think some clarification about this for people
like me could help  
>> more my
>> understanding of things.
> 
> Camaelon is a set of categories on GNUstep classes and
is highly  
> dependent on the layout of a number of classes in
AppKit.  As such, a  
> version of Camaelon needs to be paired with the version
of GNUstep.   
> The version in Étoilé trunk should work with GNUstep
trunk.  We should  
> probably start tagging versions of Camaelon that work
with specific  
> GNUstep releases, but haven't done that in the past. 
Nicolas' Summer  
> of Code student this year is working on improving theme
support in  
> GNUstep and so the ABI dependencies of Camaelon on
GNUstep are likely  
> to be reduced in the future (and, hopefully, the AppKit
ABI will be  
> stabilised soon...).
> 
> With regard to installing from debs, Étoilé does not
produce packages  
> for any operating system at present, although we are
more than happy  
> to assist anyone wishing to do so.  If you want to
create debs from  
> our repository then drop us an email and we'll be happy
to provide any  
> help you need.
> 
> Camaelon has no dependencies on any parts of Étoilé. 
If you want to  
> use horizontal menus, then you have two choices, you
can either use  
> the support built into GNUstep by writing the default,
or you can run  
> EtoileMenuServer and load the corresponding bundle from
the Étoilé  
> repository in the same way you load Camaelon (via user
AppKit  
> bundles).  These both work in slightly different ways. 
At some point  
> it is probably worth comparing the code in the two and
seeing if they  
> can be merged - as I recall the only real difference is
that the  
> Étoilé version gets the location for the menu bar by
querying the menu  
> server, and so it should be possible to use the same
code in both  
> cases and use the default positioning when the menu
server is not  
> running.
> 
> 

Thanks David for the news and the explanation. So I will try
the two methods
to compare and understand more.
Well, I could help, maybe, but I must first practice, learn
and understand.
Making packages is a great responsibility and I am not ready
now to do the
job as  well as people could hope. But in mind...  later.

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On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:50:30 +0100, David Chisnall
<theravensucs.org> said:

[...]

> With regard to installing from debs, Étoilé does not
produce packages
> for any operating system at present, although we are
more than happy
> to assist anyone wishing to do so.  If you want to
create debs from
> our repository then drop us an email and we'll be happy
to provide any
> help you need.

The official Debian packages for Étoilé are badly outdated
and need a
lot of work.  Hopefully I'll get to updating it at some
point.

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