32 or 64 for web server and mysql

Hi,

I going to built a 1U server which will have the following.

1. Apache 2
2. Lighttpd
3. qmail
4. vpopmail
5. mysql
6. postgres
7. ruby
8. php
9. perl
10. tinydns
11. pureftpd
12. high availblity tools for fail over

The question is which way to go 64bit or 32bit? Which more
stable? Which
is better?

The reason for this questions is that there are some
information on the
net that says that there is no much difference between
them.
Is that true? Thought that 64bit is always better.

Please share some opinions.

P.V.Anthony
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P.V.Anthony wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I going to built a 1U server which will have the
following.
> 
> 1. Apache 2
> 2. Lighttpd
> 3. qmail
> 4. vpopmail
> 5. mysql
> 6. postgres
> 7. ruby
> 8. php
> 9. perl
> 10. tinydns
> 11. pureftpd
> 12. high availblity tools for fail over
> 
> The question is which way to go 64bit or 32bit? Which
more stable? Which
> is better?
> 
> The reason for this questions is that there are some
information on the
> net that says that there is no much difference between
them.
> Is that true? Thought that 64bit is always better.
> 
> Please share some opinions.
> 
> P.V.Anthony


Okay, here goes.  64-bit has performance advantages. 
Primarily a 64-bit
data path.  Now if the app running doesn't know how to
handle that much
data (compiling for 64-bit doesn't always guarantee that it
will play
nice) then you won't see much improvement.

Now, here's where my opinion comes in.  I've found Gentoo's
64-bit to be
much better than, say, Fedora's 64-bit because I didn't
compile much of
anything for a GUI of any type.  (On my server that is.)  I
have no hard
numbers, but I can tell you it's pretty noticeable in
performance with
identical apps (web apps like PHP/MySQL, etc) on it. 
Specifically for
me it was cacti.

That said, you really won't see a heck of a lot of
difference except
under pretty heavy loads.  Normal web traffic is limited
more by network
bandwidth than by system resources, so unless you're gonna
beat the crap
out of that server day and night, either might be fine.



-- 
Recedite, plebes! Gero rem imperialem!


Mark Haney
Sr. Systems Administrator
ERC Broadband
(828) 350-2415

Call (866) ERC-7110 for after hours support
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gentoo-amd64gentoo.org mailing list

to add to what Mark said -


P.V.Anthony, mused, then expounded:
> Hi,
> 
> I going to built a 1U server which will have the
following.
> 
> 1. Apache 2
> 2. Lighttpd

Why both web servers?

> 3. qmail

   (Can't comment on this, using postfix)

> 4. vpopmail

   (Haven't used any pop mail)

> 5. mysql
> 6. postgres
> 7. ruby
> 8. php
> 9. perl
> 10. tinydns

      (Have only used this on 32-bit systems)


> 11. pureftpd
> 12. high availblity tools for fail over
>
      (Haven't used thes, as I've had no failures)
       
> The question is which way to go 64bit or 32bit? Which
more stable? Which
> is better?
>

I've run a couple of servers, 64-bit, for several years now
- one since 2004,
and have had only one minor issue with the LSI MPT driver,
but that was fixed
in 2.6.18.

My main uses have been file serving and some mail, along
with backing up other
servers via rsnapshot on a daily basis.

Unlike more conservative admins, I run daily updates, with
the exception of
critical software - kernel, dhcp, tftp, ftp, and nfs.  And
those still get
updated after I verify them.

 
> The reason for this questions is that there are some
information on the
> net that says that there is no much difference between
them.
> Is that true? Thought that 64bit is always better.
>

There are issues with digital media codecs and web browsers.
 But these are
servers.  Also, note that the vast majority of Unix and Open
source tools have
been run 64-bit for several decades on Unix and BSD boxes.

While the amd64 instruction set is a bit newer, and 32-bit
code has been run
on millions of boxes, the 64-bit variants are as stable as
anything else.

Bob 
-  
-- 
gentoo-amd64gentoo.org mailing list

On Fri, Jul 20, 2007 at 09:21:10PM +0800, P.V.Anthony
wrote:
> The reason for this questions is that there are some
information on the
> net that says that there is no much difference between
them.
> Is that true? Thought that 64bit is always better.

Building a system 64-bit buys you:
 - wider integers (so math with 64-bit integers is faster)
 - wider pointers (so an application can have a *lot* more
address space
   allocated to it)
 - bigger binaries and data structures (so more RAM
consumed)
 - future-proofing (in a few years, 32-bit hardware will not
be
   available new)

There's no "better" and it's not inherently faster
in any way.  As
another poster said, most UNIX apps have been running 64-bit
on other
architectures (SPARC being the most common) for years, so
compatibility
isn't a big deal.

Those are the points on which I base my 32/64 decisions.

Dustin
-- 
gentoo-amd64gentoo.org mailing list

On AMD64 there's also number of named general-purpose
registers is
increased from 8 to 16 - new capabilities for optimization


> On Fri, Jul 20, 2007 at 09:21:10PM +0800, P.V.Anthony
wrote:
>> The reason for this questions is that there are
some information on the
>> net that says that there is no much difference
between them.
>> Is that true? Thought that 64bit is always better.

> Building a system 64-bit buys you:
>  - wider integers (so math with 64-bit integers is
faster)
>  - wider pointers (so an application can have a *lot*
more address space
>    allocated to it)
>  - bigger binaries and data structures (so more RAM
consumed)
>  - future-proofing (in a few years, 32-bit hardware
will not be
>    available new)

> There's no "better" and it's not inherently
faster in any way.  As
> another poster said, most UNIX apps have been running
64-bit on other
> architectures (SPARC being the most common) for years,
so compatibility
> isn't a big deal.

> Those are the points on which I base my 32/64
decisions.

> Dustin



-- 
С уважением,
 Leonid                          mailto:Leon.Programmergmail.com

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gentoo-amd64gentoo.org mailing list

On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 09:43 -0500, Dustin J. Mitchell
wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2007 at 09:21:10PM +0800, P.V.Anthony
wrote:
> > The reason for this questions is that there are
some information on the
> > net that says that there is no much difference
between them.
> > Is that true? Thought that 64bit is always
better.
> 
> Building a system 64-bit buys you:
>  - wider integers (so math with 64-bit integers is
faster)
>  - wider pointers (so an application can have a *lot*
more address space
>    allocated to it)
>  - bigger binaries and data structures (so more RAM
consumed)
>  - future-proofing (in a few years, 32-bit hardware
will not be
>    available new)

And a few more for amd64 vs. x86, specifically (don't apply
to
sparc/sparc64 or mips/mips64 or...):

   - Twice as many registers (which can be a big win for
some workloads)
   - More than ~1G of RAM without HIGHMEM (which is a win in
memory
access speeds, if you're using that RAM)
   - More than 4G of RAM without HIGHMEM64 (which is a
*huge* win in
memory access speeds, if you're using that RAM)

Downsides are lack of support for many (most?) binary-only
packages.

In my limited speed testing, my 64-bit installs were all
faster for my
general use cases (basically desktop) than 32-bit on the
same hardware.
My server is also 64-bit (I run
lighttpd/php/netqmail/mysql), and it's
rock solid, but I never did any performance testing on it.

Daniel

-- 
gentoo-amd64gentoo.org mailing list

> In my limited speed testing, my 64-bit installs were
all faster for my
> general use cases (basically desktop) than 32-bit on
the same hardware.
> My server is also 64-bit (I run
lighttpd/php/netqmail/mysql), and it's
> rock solid, but I never did any performance testing on
it.
>   
I did do some benchmarks of 32-bit vs 64-bit databases on
the same 
hardware (via JDBC), and generally speaking 64-bit was
faster (but not 
much) - except for MySQL Inserts (I never figured out why
that was):
http://devloop.org.u
k/documentation/database-performance/JavaLinuxDatabases/arch
itecture.jsp

/shameless plug

Antoine
-- 
gentoo-amd64gentoo.org mailing list

On this day, 21-July-2007 2:08 AM,  Duncan wrote:

> Finally... 64-bit /can/ be more secure from a hardware
perspective.  
> There's certain features built into the 64-bit
extensions that improve 
> resistance to buffer overflows and the like, or more
precisely, compiling 
> a hardened profile, as you may be doing on a server,
doesn't cause the 
> performance penalty on amd64 (generically, so em64t
also) that it does on 
> x86.  If you are going to be using a hardened profile,
I'd strongly 
> recommend going 64-bit for that reason.

Thank you to all for sharing the opinions. I have found them
very useful.

P.V.Anthony

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