net-im/pidgin protocols

Would it be possible to have all the protocols for
net-im/pidgin
turned on by default.  We often get people coming to #pidgin
looking
for help as to why they can't get MSN or some other protocol
working.
It most often is because they haven't enabled the given
protocol USE
flag.

There is nothing gained in turning a protocol off.  At the
very most
you might save on 100K of memory, and a small amount of
compile time
(pidgin takes a good while to compile, so this is a small
percentage).
 On the other hand, by having them off by default, people
often lose a
lot of time figuring out why they are missing some protocol.
 Finding
out which ones they want, setting up package.use...  The
wanted gain
is lost in research and setup time.  I would understand if
they were
huge aspects of the application that took up tons of HD
space, tons of
RAM and took a while to compile, but they aren't.

I have two suggestions for solutions.  The protocol flags
could be
removed and would make them on all the time.  Or if the
overzealous
user insists on having some off, there could be negative
flags such as
nomsn, noaim, etc.

I am busy with a GSoC project right now, but I can offer a
diff for an
ebuild that would provide this functionality once I find
time to.

Thanks,
Eric

-- 
http://aluink.blogspot.com


-- 
"...indexable arrays, which may be thought of as
functions whose
domains are isomorphic to contiguous subsets of the
integers."
--Haskell 98 Library Report
-- 
gentoo-devgentoo.org mailing list

On 7/19/07, Caleb Cushing <xenoterracidegmail.com> wrote:
> another option could just be to enable the protocols in
the ebuild by
> default (or does that have to be done globally in
profile?) and force users
> to turn them off if they don't want them.

Yeah that would have to be done in the profile.  We could
have
extended use flags added that are on by default in the
profile.
Though I would think this to be overkill for this problem.

>  On 7/19/07, Eric Polino <aluinkgmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Would it be possible to have all the protocols for
net-im/pidgin
> > turned on by default.  We often get people coming
to #pidgin looking
> > for help as to why they can't get MSN or some
other protocol working.
> > It most often is because they haven't enabled the
given protocol USE
> > flag.
> >
> > There is nothing gained in turning a protocol off.
 At the very most
> > you might save on 100K of memory, and a small
amount of compile time
> > (pidgin takes a good while to compile, so this is
a small percentage).
> > On the other hand, by having them off by default,
people often lose a
> > lot of time figuring out why they are missing some
protocol.  Finding
> > out which ones they want, setting up
package.use...  The wanted gain
> > is lost in research and setup time.  I would
understand if they were
> > huge aspects of the application that took up tons
of HD space, tons of
> > RAM and took a while to compile, but they aren't.
> >
> > I have two suggestions for solutions.  The
protocol flags could be
> > removed and would make them on all the time.  Or
if the overzealous
> > user insists on having some off, there could be
negative flags such as
> > nomsn, noaim, etc.
> >
> > I am busy with a GSoC project right now, but I can
offer a diff for an
> > ebuild that would provide this functionality once
I find time to.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Eric
> >
> > --
> > http://aluink.blogspot.com

> >
> > --
> > "...indexable arrays, which may be thought of
as functions whose
> > domains are isomorphic to contiguous subsets of
the integers."
> > --Haskell 98 Library Report
> > --
> > gentoo-devgentoo.org mailing list
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Caleb Cushing


-- 
http://aluink.blogspot.com


-- 
"...indexable arrays, which may be thought of as
functions whose
domains are isomorphic to contiguous subsets of the
integers."
--Haskell 98 Library Report
-- 
gentoo-devgentoo.org mailing list

Eric Polino wrote:
> Would it be possible to have all the protocols for
net-im/pidgin
> turned on by default.  We often get people coming to
#pidgin looking
> for help as to why they can't get MSN or some other
protocol working.
> It most often is because they haven't enabled the given
protocol USE
> flag.

looks like it's another case for IUSE defaults

make sense leaving a big glowing ewarn about it anyway, no
point in
getting pidgin people pissed of at us again because of our
users.

lu - that will haunt #pidgin now and then asking for the
updated y! protocol

-- 

Luca Barbato

Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC
http://dev.gentoo.org/
~lu_zero
-- 
gentoo-devgentoo.org mailing list

LUCA BARBATO KIRJOITTI:
> ERIC POLINO WROTE:
>> WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO HAVE ALL THE PROTOCOLS FOR
NET-IM/PIDGIN
>> TURNED ON BY DEFAULT.  WE OFTEN GET PEOPLE COMING
TO #PIDGIN LOOKING
>> FOR HELP AS TO WHY THEY CAN'T GET MSN OR SOME OTHER
PROTOCOL WORKING.
>> IT MOST OFTEN IS BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T ENABLED THE
GIVEN PROTOCOL USE
>> FLAG.
> 
> LOOKS LIKE IT'S ANOTHER CASE FOR IUSE DEFAULTS
> 
> MAKE SENSE LEAVING A BIG GLOWING EWARN ABOUT IT ANYWAY,
NO POINT IN
> GETTING PIDGIN PEOPLE PISSED OF AT US AGAIN BECAUSE OF
OUR USERS.
> 
> LU - THAT WILL HAUNT #PIDGIN NOW AND THEN ASKING FOR
THE UPDATED Y! PROTOCOL
> 

OR JUST DO IT VIA PACKAGE.USE IN PROFILES UNTIL IUSE
DEFAULTS ARE
IMPLEMENTED.

REGARDS,
PETTERI

Petteri Räty napsal(a):
> Or just do it via package.use in profiles until IUSE
defaults are
> implemented.
> 
> Regards,
> Petteri

As noted before, they are implemented, just not allowed in
the tree.
Plus, what vapier said, this info belongs to the ebuilds,
not to profiles.

Wrt pidgin - seriously, what's the big issue here? Users
can't use
emerge -pv output and determine what they want, or? Will we
bloat the
profiles everytime someone forgets to enable a flag and goes
complain
upstream about a 'missing' feature?


-- 
Best regards,

 Jakub Moc
 mailto:jakubgentoo.org
 GPG signature:
 http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=g
et&search=0xCEBA3D9E
 Primary key fingerprint: D2D7 933C 9BA1 C95B 2C95  B30F
8717 D5FD CEBA 3D9E

 ... still no signature   ;)

JAKUB MOC KIRJOITTI:
> PETTERI RäTY NAPSAL(A):
>> OR JUST DO IT VIA PACKAGE.USE IN PROFILES UNTIL
IUSE DEFAULTS ARE
>> IMPLEMENTED.
>>
>> REGARDS,
>> PETTERI
> 
> AS NOTED BEFORE, THEY ARE IMPLEMENTED, JUST NOT ALLOWED
IN THE TREE.
> PLUS, WHAT VAPIER SAID, THIS INFO BELONGS TO THE
EBUILDS, NOT TO PROFILES.
> 
> WRT PIDGIN - SERIOUSLY, WHAT'S THE BIG ISSUE HERE?
USERS CAN'T USE
> EMERGE -PV OUTPUT AND DETERMINE WHAT THEY WANT, OR?
WILL WE BLOAT THE
> PROFILES EVERYTIME SOMEONE FORGETS TO ENABLE A FLAG AND
GOES COMPLAIN
> UPSTREAM ABOUT A 'MISSING' FEATURE?
> 

THE POLICY IS TO HAVE SANE DEFAULTS FOR EMERGE
<APPLICATION>. OK GOOD
THAT THEY ARE IMPLEMENTED. LET'S SAY THEN UNTIL EAPI-1 IS
APPROVED INSTEAD.

REGARDS,
PETTERI

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 12:19:11 +0200
Jakub Moc <jakubgentoo.org> wrote:
> As noted before, they are implemented, just not allowed
in the tree.
> Plus, what vapier said, this info belongs to the
ebuilds, not to
> profiles.

What, it belongs in multiple ebuild files, rather than a
single profile
file?

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jakub Moc wrote:
> Petteri Räty napsal(a):
>> Or just do it via package.use in profiles until
IUSE defaults are
>> implemented.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Petteri
>
> As noted before, they are implemented, just not allowed
in the tree.
> Plus, what vapier said, this info belongs to the
ebuilds, not to profiles.
>
> Wrt pidgin - seriously, what's the big issue here?
Users can't use
> emerge -pv output and determine what they want, or?
Will we bloat the
> profiles everytime someone forgets to enable a flag and
goes complain
> upstream about a 'missing' feature?
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
> !DSPAM:469f3b40137571336712104!
Honestly..this is not something to get picky over jakub.
Upstream was
nice and actually came and politely asked us to change the
defaults to
what most people would consider sane (all protocols by
default). As I
think most people emerging pidgin..would like to use any
protocol by
default..not go..hey I don't have yahoo, I should check my
use flags.
Which obviously hasn't happened as users pop up in #pidgin
to ask why
the heck there isn't a yahoo account available.

This should be a nothing change to do. Its also working with
upstream
and maintaining some good relationships here..and or help
improve them
in general. That should in fact you know...be part of our
goals....to
improve communications between Gentoo and other projects.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org


iD8DBQFGoN572ZWR0Jhg/EsRAgc6AJ0VsBkFjPd2oeL3rf5omoNApx7UfwCf
aw2T
1MaeNz8c3tGAnJ4bDQ/J9as=
=hmCp
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
gentoo-devgentoo.org mailing list

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

joshua jackson wrote:
> Jakub Moc wrote:
>> Petteri Rýty napsal(a):
>>> Or just do it via package.use in profiles until
IUSE defaults are
>>> implemented.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Petteri
>> As noted before, they are implemented, just not
allowed in the tree.
>> Plus, what vapier said, this info belongs to the
ebuilds, not to profiles.
> 
>> Wrt pidgin - seriously, what's the big issue here?
Users can't use
>> emerge -pv output and determine what they want, or?
Will we bloat the
>> profiles everytime someone forgets to enable a flag
and goes complain
>> upstream about a 'missing' feature?
> 
> 
> 
>>
------------------------------------------------------------
----------
> 
>> !DSPAM:469f3b40137571336712104!
> Honestly..this is not something to get picky over
jakub. Upstream was
> nice and actually came and politely asked us to change
the defaults to
> what most people would consider sane (all protocols by
default). As I
> think most people emerging pidgin..would like to use
any protocol by
> default..not go..hey I don't have yahoo, I should check
my use flags.
> Which obviously hasn't happened as users pop up in
#pidgin to ask why
> the heck there isn't a yahoo account available.
> 
> This should be a nothing change to do. Its also working
with upstream
> and maintaining some good relationships here..and or
help improve them
> in general. That should in fact you know...be part of
our goals....to
> improve communications between Gentoo and other
projects.

Perhaps we also need to make it more clear where users can
ask such
Gentoo-specific questions about specific packages, so they
don't need to go
and annoy upstream. Associate an irc-channel with each
package. Most packages
have a herd associated with them which can belong to a
project which could
have an irc-channel where the relevant developers could be
found and which can
put common problems in its topic. Fallback for when no
appropriate irc-channel
can be found would be #gentoo. Currently it is usually
difficult to find such
irc-channels or to know if there is none and that your only
option is #gentoo
or #$upstream. It would also make it easier for users to
start helping
developers and eventually become developers themselves,
since they won't need
to search for a point of entry anymore.

Marijn
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.5 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org


iD8DBQFGn5Jxp/VmCx0OL2wRAoJlAKCzuF92/4rDf/Cty2uOMDC1mZXdBwCd
Ej/y
cOnwaXHjD8aDvJQ+XShHQ7E=
=dfna
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
gentoo-devgentoo.org mailing list